Student Wage in Ontario

[fryingpan]

Why is there a student wage in Ontario? (7.75/hour for adults, 7.25/hour for students under 18). How does the recent increase in the minmum wage benefit the poor when employers can hire students under 18 to do the same work for less? I was just wondering about this because in the city where I live, employers seem to be giving preference to those who are under 18. Those who are older (and actually need the money) seem to be having a real hard time finding a job.

Any input on this would be great.

[geoffrey]

Why is there a student wage in Ontario? (7.75/hour for adults, 7.25/hour for students under 18). How does the recent increase in the minmum wage benefit the poor when employers can hire students under 18 to do the same work for less? I was just wondering about this because in the city where I live, employers seem to be giving preference to those who are under 18. Those who are older (and actually need the money) seem to be having a real hard time finding a job.

Any input on this would be great.

From a human rights perspective, I'd say its fair. Adults have responsibilities that kids don't. Deal with it for a few years. Who the hell makes minimum wage anyways? Or is that just my province?

From an economics perspective, its a bad move from the government... adult employment matters way more that hiring kids. If they were equally paid, then companies would hire adults first obviously because kids are much less valuable.

Any minimum wage is ridiculous though, no one makes it anyways. If you make $0.05 above it, thats the market working and not the government. Sorry statists, you aren't helping a soul.

[Sakura]

I think the student wage is a real nusiance.

An employer is going to pick the person that can work the cheapest almost everytime. It is some what annoying that the 16 year olds are taking jobs away from the older people. Just image living in a small town with not that man job placements. The students aka kids can take all the jobs from older people that might have families. Those r the ppl that need the money. Not everyone can be graced with a beautiful post secondary education and a six something figure salary. What aobut the people that r in the 40s now and that will be layed off. And they are forced to go back the mimium wage job only to find out, that they can not get one cause students can work for cheaper. There should be no student wage, there should only me a mimium wage. so that everyone no matter the age has a far share at jobs.

[Slavik44]

From a human rights perspective, I'd say its fair. Adults have responsibilities that kids don't. Deal with it for a few years. Who the hell makes minimum wage anyways? Or is that just my province?

From an economics perspective, its a bad move from the government... adult employment matters way more that hiring kids. If they were equally paid, then companies would hire adults first obviously because kids are much less valuable.

Any minimum wage is ridiculous though, no one makes it anyways. If you make $0.05 above it, thats the market working and not the government. Sorry statists, you aren't helping a soul.

found one, in Alberta,

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?Or...urce=JobPosting

[fryingpan]

And they are forced to go back the mimium wage job only to find out, that they can not get one cause students can work for cheaper. There should be no student wage, there should only me a mimium wage. so that everyone no matter the age has a far share at jobs.

I agree. The worst part about that (aside from older people having to go back on welfare to support their kids) is that these teens don't even need the jobs. If they were saving for college/university it would be more understandable, but the vast majority of teens where I live are just looking for money to spend on clothes/beer/new car. Aren't teens spoiled enough today? They get whatever they want as kids, and when they turn 16, they get whatever they want at someone else's expense.

[geoffrey]

From a human rights perspective, I'd say its fair. Adults have responsibilities that kids don't. Deal with it for a few years. Who the hell makes minimum wage anyways? Or is that just my province?

From an economics perspective, its a bad move from the government... adult employment matters way more that hiring kids. If they were equally paid, then companies would hire adults first obviously because kids are much less valuable.

Any minimum wage is ridiculous though, no one makes it anyways. If you make $0.05 above it, thats the market working and not the government. Sorry statists, you aren't helping a soul.

found one, in Alberta,

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?Or...urce=JobPosting

It's a resturant job, you get tips on top of that.

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

[concerned citizen]

From a human rights perspective, I'd say its fair. Adults have responsibilities that kids don't. Deal with it for a few years. Who the hell makes minimum wage anyways? Or is that just my province?

From an economics perspective, its a bad move from the government... adult employment matters way more that hiring kids. If they were equally paid, then companies would hire adults first obviously because kids are much less valuable.

Any minimum wage is ridiculous though, no one makes it anyways. If you make $0.05 above it, thats the market working and not the government. Sorry statists, you aren't helping a soul.

found one, in Alberta,

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?Or...urce=JobPosting

It's a resturant job, you get tips on top of that.

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

Well I'm really happy for you and Alberta but here in Ontario there are tons of minimum wage jobs to be had. I'd like to see the removal of the student wage and also the lower wage for waitresses. While yes they can safely assume to make tips, not everyone is generous. It would be best if there was just one minimum wage in Ontario and put everyone on a level playing field.

But i'm not holding my breath

[fryingpan]

From a human rights perspective, I'd say its fair. Adults have responsibilities that kids don't. Deal with it for a few years. Who the hell makes minimum wage anyways? Or is that just my province?

From an economics perspective, its a bad move from the government... adult employment matters way more that hiring kids. If they were equally paid, then companies would hire adults first obviously because kids are much less valuable.

Any minimum wage is ridiculous though, no one makes it anyways. If you make $0.05 above it, thats the market working and not the government. Sorry statists, you aren't helping a soul.

found one, in Alberta,

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?Or...urce=JobPosting

It's a resturant job, you get tips on top of that.

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

Wow, we should all pack and move to Alberta . Here in northern Ontario, all entry level positions (cashier, fast food, etc...) are all minimum wage and there are always more applicants than jobs.

[geoffrey]

From a human rights perspective, I'd say its fair. Adults have responsibilities that kids don't. Deal with it for a few years. Who the hell makes minimum wage anyways? Or is that just my province?

From an economics perspective, its a bad move from the government... adult employment matters way more that hiring kids. If they were equally paid, then companies would hire adults first obviously because kids are much less valuable.

Any minimum wage is ridiculous though, no one makes it anyways. If you make $0.05 above it, thats the market working and not the government. Sorry statists, you aren't helping a soul.

found one, in Alberta,

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?Or...urce=JobPosting

It's a resturant job, you get tips on top of that.

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

Wow, we should all pack and move to Alberta . Here in northern Ontario, all entry level positions (cashier, fast food, etc...) are all minimum wage and there are always more applicants than jobs.

You should. Just saw at Burger King a sign saying they are paying $9.25 to part-time starters... minimum wage in Alberta is $7.00 (just up from $5.90 last year).

Minimum wage is irrelevant until it imposes limits on business hiring. Too high a minimum wage and then businesses must pay it as labour is over-priced. This also limits their ability to hire!

[fryingpan]

From a human rights perspective, I'd say its fair. Adults have responsibilities that kids don't. Deal with it for a few years. Who the hell makes minimum wage anyways? Or is that just my province?

From an economics perspective, its a bad move from the government... adult employment matters way more that hiring kids. If they were equally paid, then companies would hire adults first obviously because kids are much less valuable.

Any minimum wage is ridiculous though, no one makes it anyways. If you make $0.05 above it, thats the market working and not the government. Sorry statists, you aren't helping a soul.

found one, in Alberta,

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/ShowJob_en.asp?Or...urce=JobPosting

It's a resturant job, you get tips on top of that.

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

Wow, we should all pack and move to Alberta . Here in northern Ontario, all entry level positions (cashier, fast food, etc...) are all minimum wage and there are always more applicants than jobs.

You should. Just saw at Burger King a sign saying they are paying $9.25 to part-time starters... minimum wage in Alberta is $7.00 (just up from $5.90 last year).

Minimum wage is irrelevant until it imposes limits on business hiring. Too high a minimum wage and then businesses must pay it as labour is over-priced. This also limits their ability to hire!

I agree 100%. Businesses over here are starting to downsize their staff and are getting really picky about who they hire. It's going to get even worse when McGuinty raises the wages again next year (from 7.75 to 8.00 for adults). I wish someone would send him to an introductory economics course so he would realize how stupid he is.

[cybercoma]

I think the student wage is a real nusiance.

An employer is going to pick the person that can work the cheapest almost everytime.

This is quite simply false. The employer is going to pay the market value for the services the employees are offering. If you have a more marketable skill, you will be paid more. If you're holding a spatula in your hand and turning hamburgers over, you're going to get paid as little as possible since anyone can do that job.

[Big Blue Machine]

You can only pay so much for a dorky kid wearing a paper hat asking you if you want fries with that.

[Sakura]

I will stand by my first post and say that student wage is a nusiance.

This is quite simply false. The employer is going to pay the market value for the services the employees are offering. If you have a more marketable skill, you will be paid more. If you're holding a spatula in your hand and turning hamburgers over, you're going to get paid as little as possible since anyone can do that job.

What about the people that are in there 40s and back when they went to school not even getting there high diploma was really necessary. bcause there was tones of jobs then, that didt require post secondary education. What about those people, they r getting layed off and have nothing to bounce back too. Except for mimium wage jobs. or jsut have a mimium wage job intill they get the proper education. So those burger flipping kids will take those mimium wage jobs away from those ppl, cause they can work for less. So the ppl that r in there 40s or older r screwed after putting some many years at there former job, to be screwed of their pensions(in some cases) and just to be over thrown by student wage.

[geoffrey]

I will stand by my first post and say that student wage is a nusiance.

This is quite simply false. The employer is going to pay the market value for the services the employees are offering. If you have a more marketable skill, you will be paid more. If you're holding a spatula in your hand and turning hamburgers over, you're going to get paid as little as possible since anyone can do that job.

What about the people that are in there 40s and back when they went to school not even getting there high diploma was really necessary. bcause there was tones of jobs then, that didt require post secondary education. What about those people, they r getting layed off and have nothing to bounce back too. Except for mimium wage jobs. or jsut have a mimium wage job intill they get the proper education. So those burger flipping kids will take those mimium wage jobs away from those ppl, cause they can work for less. So the ppl that r in there 40s or older r screwed after putting some many years at there former job, to be screwed of their pensions(in some cases) and just to be over thrown by student wage.

People that have had reasonable pensions are typically those that can be industrious enough to find work outside of minimum wage burger joints.

We all agree with you here it seems on the ridiculousness of student wages. I take it a step further and say that any minimum wage is ridiculous.

[fryingpan]

I will stand by my first post and say that student wage is a nusiance.

This is quite simply false. The employer is going to pay the market value for the services the employees are offering. If you have a more marketable skill, you will be paid more. If you're holding a spatula in your hand and turning hamburgers over, you're going to get paid as little as possible since anyone can do that job.

What about the people that are in there 40s and back when they went to school not even getting there high diploma was really necessary. bcause there was tones of jobs then, that didt require post secondary education. What about those people, they r getting layed off and have nothing to bounce back too. Except for mimium wage jobs. or jsut have a mimium wage job intill they get the proper education. So those burger flipping kids will take those mimium wage jobs away from those ppl, cause they can work for less. So the ppl that r in there 40s or older r screwed after putting some many years at there former job, to be screwed of their pensions(in some cases) and just to be over thrown by student wage.

People that have had reasonable pensions are typically those that can be industrious enough to find work outside of minimum wage burger joints.

We all agree with you here it seems on the ridiculousness of student wages. I take it a step further and say that any minimum wage is ridiculous.

They could always move to Alberta . At worst, they can go down to that Burger King and get paid 9.75/hour.

Maybe instead of a student wage they can have a training wage like in BC (because there is no way the Liberal provincial government is going to get rid of a minimum wage, even if it's necessary). This training wage would apply to everyone so that everyone gets a chance to get a job. After they have some work experience, they can go find a better job.

I suggest we set the number of hours for the training wage at 2000. By this time, most people have moved out of minimum wage anyway, so they don't have to worry about being canned and replaced when their hours run out.

Working 20 hours a week, you'd have to work for close to 2 years in order to complete 2000 hours. Even Mr. Acne at McDonalds can find something better.

[geoffrey]

They could always move to Alberta . At worst, they can go down to that Burger King and get paid 9.75/hour.

Maybe instead of a student wage they can have a training wage like in BC (because there is no way the Liberal provincial government is going to get rid of a minimum wage, even if it's necessary). This training wage would apply to everyone so that everyone gets a chance to get a job. After they have some work experience, they can go find a better job.

I suggest we set the number of hours for the training wage at 2000. By this time, most people have moved out of minimum wage anyway, so they don't have to worry about being canned and replaced when their hours run out.

Working 20 hours a week, you'd have to work for close to 2 years in order to complete 2000 hours. Even Mr. Acne at McDonalds can find something better.

This training wage is a far less discriminatory example. But it does discourage older people that need to be working, from entering the workforce for the first time.

[fryingpan]

They could always move to Alberta . At worst, they can go down to that Burger King and get paid 9.75/hour.

Maybe instead of a student wage they can have a training wage like in BC (because there is no way the Liberal provincial government is going to get rid of a minimum wage, even if it's necessary). This training wage would apply to everyone so that everyone gets a chance to get a job. After they have some work experience, they can go find a better job.

I suggest we set the number of hours for the training wage at 2000. By this time, most people have moved out of minimum wage anyway, so they don't have to worry about being canned and replaced when their hours run out.

Working 20 hours a week, you'd have to work for close to 2 years in order to complete 2000 hours. Even Mr. Acne at McDonalds can find something better.

This training wage is a far less discriminatory example. But it does discourage older people that need to be working, from entering the workforce for the first time.

Thats true. But it also prevents employers from not hiring them simply because they have to be paid more. I'm sure these people would prefer the training wage to the student wage, because in order to be on welfare, you actually have to be looking for a job. Any job. Otherwise they kick you off.

[fellowtraveller]

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

True!

Oddly enough, despite the high or rather rapidly rising labour costs, Alberta still has a relatively low cost of living , cheapish real estate.

It makes me wonder if we are not due for some very sharp increases in inflation......

[geoffrey]

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

True!

Oddly enough, despite the high or rather rapidly rising labour costs, Alberta still has a relatively low cost of living , cheapish real estate.

It makes me wonder if we are not due for some very sharp increases in inflation......

Your definitely right, inflation is coming soon, if we can't fill these jobs.

We need to legislate the movement of unemployed people from elsewhere in Canada, to Alberta.

[fryingpan]

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

True!

Oddly enough, despite the high or rather rapidly rising labour costs, Alberta still has a relatively low cost of living , cheapish real estate.

It makes me wonder if we are not due for some very sharp increases in inflation......

Your definitely right, inflation is coming soon, if we can't fill these jobs.

We need to legislate the movement of unemployed people from elsewhere in Canada, to Alberta.

How about the entire northern half of Ontario? And if McGuinty doesn't stop raising the minimum wage, maybe the southern half too. I would suggest targeting people who just graduated from University and have discovered there are literally no jobs where they live.

[geoffrey]

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

True!

Oddly enough, despite the high or rather rapidly rising labour costs, Alberta still has a relatively low cost of living , cheapish real estate.

It makes me wonder if we are not due for some very sharp increases in inflation......

Your definitely right, inflation is coming soon, if we can't fill these jobs.

We need to legislate the movement of unemployed people from elsewhere in Canada, to Alberta.

How about the entire northern half of Ontario? And if McGuinty doesn't stop raising the minimum wage, maybe the southern half too. I would suggest targeting people who just graduated from University and have discovered there are literally no jobs where they live.

We don't need university people (well, a few I supposed). We need about 40,000 labourers. We need all those Newfie fishermen that are on UI out there.

I don't get why people are allowed to sit there on welfare when there is a horrific labour shortage in this country.

[cybercoma]

Either way, you'd be hard pressed to hire anyone in Alberta right now at minimum wage. They can't even fill $12/h positions at Superstore because theres no one to work them. We're actually flying in newfies to fill the jobs, entry level jobs that used to go to 14 year old kids.

True!

Oddly enough, despite the high or rather rapidly rising labour costs, Alberta still has a relatively low cost of living , cheapish real estate.

It makes me wonder if we are not due for some very sharp increases in inflation......

Your definitely right, inflation is coming soon, if we can't fill these jobs.

We need to legislate the movement of unemployed people from elsewhere in Canada, to Alberta.

How about the entire northern half of Ontario? And if McGuinty doesn't stop raising the minimum wage, maybe the southern half too. I would suggest targeting people who just graduated from University and have discovered there are literally no jobs where they live.

We don't need university people (well, a few I supposed). We need about 40,000 labourers. We need all those Newfie fishermen that are on UI out there.

I don't get why people are allowed to sit there on welfare when there is a horrific labour shortage in this country.

You wouldn't be able to tell there's a labour shortage by the wages companies are paying people. If they'd loosen the purse strings a bit, I'm sure they'd find more than enough people to do the jobs they need done.

[geoffrey]

You wouldn't be able to tell there's a labour shortage by the wages companies are paying people. If they'd loosen the purse strings a bit, I'm sure they'd find more than enough people to do the jobs they need done.

Out here the wages are great, really high for unskilled labour.

Alberta has less than 4% unemployment (below the natural rate), and the higest participation rate in Canada. There is no one left here to hire.

[fryingpan]

You wouldn't be able to tell there's a labour shortage by the wages companies are paying people. If they'd loosen the purse strings a bit, I'm sure they'd find more than enough people to do the jobs they need done.

Out here the wages are great, really high for unskilled labour.

Alberta has less than 4% unemployment (below the natural rate), and the higest participation rate in Canada. There is no one left here to hire.

What about all the teenagers? It seems like there is always someone turning 16. They'll do those kinds of jobs.

[geoffrey]

You wouldn't be able to tell there's a labour shortage by the wages companies are paying people. If they'd loosen the purse strings a bit, I'm sure they'd find more than enough people to do the jobs they need done.

Out here the wages are great, really high for unskilled labour.

Alberta has less than 4% unemployment (below the natural rate), and the higest participation rate in Canada. There is no one left here to hire.

What about all the teenagers? It seems like there is always someone turning 16. They'll do those kinds of jobs.

Ya, sadly they are all employed too. We wouldn't have burger king paying $9.25/hr to start PT if we had a huge supply of 16 year olds. 14 year olds can work in Alberta too.

We need people up at the oil sands and things like that in labour, not really the type of jobs people can do while going to school.