Iraq And Al Qaeda - No Links You Say?

[Craig Read]

Ansar Al Islam is an Iraqi terrorist group operating in Palestine and elsewhere with close links to Al Qaeda. The head of the Kurdish security forces in the north was quoted as saying a few days ago that Ansar al Islam followers have been sneaking across the border with Iran and are setting up cells in Baghdad.

Whoops.

Training camps have been found in northern Iraq along with Al Qaeda operatives and manuals on chemical warfare.

Whoops.

Yesterday the wonderful Muslim extremists blew up the UN building in Baghdad. The UN refused US security and paid the price for their ignorance of how reality works.

Whoops.

Yesterday's bombing was notable in that it wasn't against U.S. soldiers but against non-American civilians trying to restore normalcy to post-Saddam Iraq.

As a "soft-target" the U.N. was of course more vulnerable to a truck bomb. But the U.N. was no doubt also chosen to intimidate countries that are now contemplating the dispatch of either troops or civilian experts to help rebuild Iraq. The persistent attacks on water mains, oil pipelines and other essential infrastructure are also designed to prevent stability from returning to Baghdad.

Welcome to the real world Post Modernists.

Still want to hide behind your skirts and shriek about 'socialised health care' and 'all people and cultures are equal'?

Thought so.

[Moderate Centrist]

What does post modernism and

...'socialised health care' and 'all people and cultures are equal'?

have to do with this discussion.

It has not been mentioned by any source that I'm aware that the UN attack was the work of Al Qaeda.

[Craig Read]

The UN attack has everything to do with Al Qaeda in 2 ways. First, the jihadists are going to Iraq to fight the West. The UN being a post modern [ie. lets all dance naked together and be equal] institution was negligent in its security and paid a heavy price. It was ignorant of the threat that extreme Islam in any form poses. Second, there can be no doubt that the Baathists and Al Qaeda are cooperating and have cooperated at some level in times past. The Baathists must be getting funding and weaponry from somewhere - most probably the Al Qaeda network as well as local caches though that is more difficult with the US prowling the landscape.

The problem with the media is the misrepresentation of A.Q as some 'formal' group. It is not. It is a collection of extremists spread through the Islamic world from different parties and groups. The hub is Bin Laden's cave but the group is very dispersed and it would be folly to state that such a dispersed group had no ties to Iraq.

The UN attack should wake up the post moderns [ie. military force is no longer required in the relative world of today], to the task at hand.

[Nuclear]

Ansar Al Islam is an Iraqi terrorist group operating in Palestine and elsewhere with close links to Al Qaeda. The head of the Kurdish security forces in the north was quoted as saying a few days ago that Ansar al Islam followers have been sneaking across the border with Iran and are setting up cells in Baghdad.

Whoops.

Training camps have been found in northern Iraq along with Al Qaeda operatives and manuals on chemical warfare.

Whoops.

Yesterday the wonderful Muslim extremists blew up the UN building in Baghdad. The UN refused US security and paid the price for their ignorance of how reality works.

Whoops.

Yesterday's bombing was notable in that it wasn't against U.S. soldiers but against non-American civilians trying to restore normalcy to post-Saddam Iraq.

As a "soft-target" the U.N. was of course more vulnerable to a truck bomb. But the U.N. was no doubt also chosen to intimidate countries that are now contemplating the dispatch of either troops or civilian experts to help rebuild Iraq. The persistent attacks on water mains, oil pipelines and other essential infrastructure are also designed to prevent stability from returning to Baghdad.

Welcome to the real world Post Modernists.

Still want to hide behind your skirts and shriek about 'socialised health care' and 'all people and cultures are equal'?

Thought so.

Also remember that another link to terrorism in Iraq is all these attacks happening at all. The attacks are becoming more and more organized...do you think these are civillians giving one last fight for their old government? I don't think so. Craig is right in what he says. It's obvious that there are terror ties in Iraq.

I do find it ironic that the UN refused security and then got hit. They're a bunch of morons anyhow. It's too bad people had to die for Kofi to wake up and have his coffee.

[SirRiff]

if a few dirty wanna be militants in iraq mean iraq is an ally of al queda, then surely $3 billion the US funded to osama and his crew in the 80s makes America guilty of war crimes.

there were moreal queda terrorists in the US on 9/11 then there ever were in IRaq.

[KrustyKidd]

if a few dirty wanna be militants in iraq mean iraq is an ally of al queda, then surely $3 billion the US funded to osama and his crew in the 80s makes America guilty of war crimes.

there were moreal queda terrorists in the US on 9/11 then there ever were in IRaq.

Dissagree with you on that Riff but at the time of 911 I think Iraq had nothing to do with them or the event.

That said they are pulling the reverse of what Saddam was doing. He was trying to show the Arab world he could not be intimitdated and lost. Now they answer the call of opportunity and flock to Iraq to do the same thing. Down but not out.

Few dirty wanna bees? Don't know, but they'll be dead or in jail just the same. Rhetoric and car bombs will have their day and in a couple years those Iraqi guys will come around.Maybe get a good hockey team together. Not much else to do while the sandstorm season is on except practice. Hockey Night in Canada, Montreal Canadians vs the Basra Bombers.

[Craig Read]

Nuclear I agree. But of course the UNO 'spins' its security lapse and blames the US.

This is after it refused US protection - it likes to be 'close to the people'.

So close in fact that King Kofi and gang want to reach out and touch [hopefully not getting aroused], various extremists, Muslim firebrands and assorted Terrorists.

The sad reality is that only the US has the power to protect any Western or institutional interests.

Canada with 4.000 men in Kabul handing out parking tickets is 'stretech to the max'.

This is course why the budget was cut today for the military by $200 million.

Way to go Manley !! Another score for 'post modern' idiocy !!

There is no war going on according to the Lie-berals.

[theloniusfleabag]

No war you say, Craig? It has to be so, else the US violates international law. Mind you, the US has done so and flouted the UN before. Remember the UN mandate on the US invasion of Panama? "A flagrant violation of international law' but who cares, the US is above even the world police, because they spend the most money on guns. 'Don't mess with Texas' is the new world order.

[Hugo]

...the US violates international law.

Fourteen UN resolutions were passed against Saddam Hussein, all of which sanctioned the use of force should they be broken, which they all were, without exception.

The sad fact is that the UN sanctioned Gulf II over ten years before it even began, fourteen times, and then failed to put their money where their mouths were at crunch time. They left Bush and Blair to do their dirty work.

[Craig Read]

The UN and their lie-beral allies are too timid, too feminine and too mired in their post modern blind stupidity to deal with reality.

King Kofi likes to reach out and touch [arousing himself one supposes] the common man [and maybe woman, though in the post modern world, arousing oneself with a woman is not viewed with kindness, better to be homosexual].

The UN is viewed by 3rd world nations as a Western tool. For King Kofi and the other Lie-berals to suppose that they are loved because they talk nonsense only underscores their divorce from what is really transpiring in the geo-political world today. They are open, easy targets and rejecting US protection is arrogance at its worst.

And some prattle about 'law'. International law as a body of work does not exist. It only exists if one is reading the NY Times or listening to the moralising of the CBC. Int'l law consists of treaties, resolutions and agreements that often time overlap or confuse. There is no book which says 'here I am read me, I am the Law!'.

The UN is not a world government. Its resolutions if broken might constitute a 'law' but they can be bypassed with good reason if they are ambiguous, unenforceable or nonsensical.

In any event the US is the ONLY nation to use the UN to sanction a war.

France, Russia, China and Britain [during the Falklands war], all have eschewed the UN.

Still hate the US ?

Of course you do, National Socialism = must hate someone for being well ...someone.

[FastNed]

SirRiff, you really are determined in your anti-Americanism. Heads you win, tails America looses. In the 80's, when Afghanistan was fighting a Soviet invasion and occupation of its Country, the U.S. contributed to the Afghan rebels. That Bin Laden was one of those Rebels is an historical fact but the funding was not directed to him but rather to the Rebels. Today, this is the type of "Humanitarian" intervention you desire America to perform.

There are people in this world who having once used violence, like Pavlov's dog believe that it is the solution to every problem. They are as incorrect as those who say "violence never solved anything.". Each of these is the extreme end of the scale and a mark of intelligence in any society is the ability to avoid either extreme, so long as that is a realistic possibility. You must adjust your response to the scale of the threat and if survival mandates an extreme response or extinction, your choice should be plain.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Hugo,

If you have visited the UN website reaserching UN findings and recommendations you surely must have noted that 14 UN sanctions is a mere pittance compared to some of the big repeat offenders.

The UN always will fail in crunch time as long as they fail to demand military support under exclusive UN command as a prerequisite to membership.

The US since WWII has had the best equiped and funded military in the world, save perhaps Russia on occasion, but it is entirely staffed by trigger-happy idiots. All the way back to Stonewall Jackson, who was, typical of the US, shot by his own troops.

[Craig Read]

Good try fleabag. I would suppose that is your real name.

UNO and its post modern allies have no military capability at all. Canadian attitudes would be a little different if BCE Place had been taken out instead of the Twin Towers. Then people here would be screaming for revenge - at least those still able to think. The media and politicians would of course be apologising for stone age Islam's idiocy and failure to address the modern world. Chretien would go on TV and tell the world that Canada deserved to have 3.000 people murdered since we are undeserving western bastards that believe in progress and enlightenment.

Another link flea bag was just found between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Since i assume your source of information is either your grandmother or the CBC i will provide the information below.

============

Iraqi police arrested four men in connection with the bombing of Iraq's holiest Shiite Muslim shrine, and all have links to al Qaeda, a senior police official told the Associated Press on Saturday.

The official, who said the death toll in the bombing had risen to 107, said the four arrested men -- two Iraqis and two Saudis -- were caught shortly after the car bombing on Friday.

The bombing killed one of the most important Shiite clerics in Iraq, Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim, who had been cooperating with the U.S. occupation force.

=======

Still believe that the US is stupid, the war unnecessary or that Hitler was a good guy - just a misunderstood 'nationalist reformer' I suppose.

[Hugo]

If you have visited the UN website reaserching UN findings and recommendations you surely must have noted that 14 UN sanctions is a mere pittance compared to some of the big repeat offenders.

So what you are saying is that the law of the UN is completely worthless - a mere 14 resolutions is a trifling matter to be ignored. So a UN resolution is like a parking ticket - nobody's really going to bother until you've built up hundreds and it's license renewal time. Correct?

[logical1]

The whole UN debacle is another example of how we have compromised values and principles for the sake of the collective (a mistake that we repeatedly make by attributing too much of our success to the system of democracy rather than the free market and principles consistent with individual freedoms).

We do not benefit whatsoever from our involvement in the UN. In fact, we are the only member that gives this body any strength or legitamacy. We receive nothing of value in return. We fail to see how we legitamize every dictator in the world by remaining a member nation. All for the sake of the collective.

Ask yourself this, if you were going to begin a neighborhood watch group in your community, would you go around and invite all of the neighborhood thugs, drug dealers, pimps, burglars and other such riff raff to participate in the planning and decision making of your group, merely in the interest of inclusion? Having read some of the posts in here, I'm afraid of what some of you might answer but the majority would say that it's a ridiculous premise. Not to our government. We've done exactly the same thing on an international scale.

If we had no association with that body, our government

would not have faced the recent obstacles of having other "governments" (who incidently are unworthy of any such recognition) hinder our efforts and spit in our face like unruly school children who have discovered that their teacher has rendered himself impotent by proclaiming himself the children's equal.

Much like our new policy on terrorism, we must have no tolerance, no association and grant no legitamacy to a single nation that refuses to recognize the individual rights of it's citizens. We must act unilaterally in our own rational self interest based on our own principles and values without compromise. Does it mean snubbing China? Yep. Does it mean threatening do destroy North Korea? You bet. Does it mean ceasing trade with any country that is not a free nation ? Sure does. Does it mean people will starve? Unfortunately. Does it mean unimpeded civil wars, government overthrows and collapsing economies in many countries ? It's about time. The rest of the nations on the planet will be left with one choice, to join the free nations of the world or be left to their own miserable demise unassisted by the greatest nation on earth and the only economic system capable of saving them.

The best, most compassionate thing we could do for all of humanity is to turn our backs on those who oppose us and respond mercilessly and without hesitation to any aggression against free nations.

They already know we are capable of presenting this ultimatum but are counting on our "compassion for the needy" and our loyalty to our collectivist, altruist doctrines to keep them from ever really having to be accountable.

Will history prove them right, or will we have enough courage to toss collectivism into the trash for good, be true to our values and defend freedom for ourselves and for the future of all humanity?

[theloniusfleabag]

Logical one, you must bee joking. Cease trade based on human rights? America would collapse. Countries that oppress the citizens are the #1 trading partners BECAUSE there are no labour or human rights standards, not in spite of the fact.

[Craig Read]

Logical, great post. You can also add in the fact that the UNO sponsors terror.

1. Jenin and other Palest. camps - these were set up to be temporary back in 1948 - why are they still in operation when they are used as breeding grounds to recruit suicide bombers and jew killers ? The UN has no right to breed terrorists using Western money and funding. These camps exist because Arafat and his foul band know the value of having the UN involved in indirectly legitimising his violence and directly funding it.

2. Direct funding of terrorist leadership. Arafat the world's ugliest terrorist and probably the shortest as well, receives enough money to pad a few Swiss bank accounts and enough to pay off suicide bombers - usually 17 year old girls who implant Semtex into their bras and wander into pizza parlours to kill a Jewish mother or two. Same can be said for 'aid' programs to other broken terrorist states and their leadership. The idea that there are moderates in terrorist countries does not make sense. The only moderate terrorist is a dead one.

3. Iraq - during the 1990s Kofi and his little gang, stole $21 billion from the Iraqi's in the oil-for everything program. This was why the UN was against Gulf War II - Iraq was the largest single UN program and the mainstay of its finances. The UNO was directly responsible not only for this monetary theft, but for the death of 20-50,000 Iraqi's per year due to embargoes, and not being able to defend its own resolutions due to French, Chinese and Russian self interest in Iraqi trade.

4. UN Human Rights Group. Libya chairs this with Cuba, Sudan, Nigeria, China and Egypt as newly added members. This is so pathetically farcical it makes one cry.

And let us not forget the ultimate UN program:

5. Kyoto. Not one shread of evidence exists that temperature change, CO2 emissions or methane emission levels have changed due to human activity. Yet the UN wants to have the largest transfer of wealth and imposition of trans-national taxation in history to solve something that does not exist. It wishes to punish success and clean environments and transfer dollars to dirty, corrupt, sick sad little states in the FSU and Africa.

Wonderful group this UNO.

Frankly I am damn sick of it.

Reform it, and cut it down to size, to do 2 or 3 things well. It is too large, cumbersome, corrupt and useless at this point.

[FastNed]

Exceptional post, Logical1, very well done!

[logical1]

Mr. Fleabag, thank you once again for your reply to one of my posts. Although I was unsuccessful in my attempt to make any sense of your last one, I haven't given up. So could you please assist me by revealing your apparently exclusive source of information that unfortunately remains hidden from the rest of the world.

Primarily, I would be interested in discovering how setting whatever terms we wish relative to trade with countries who produce nothing we could not produce for ourselves and offer nothing of real value for what we provide them would put us at such an extraordinary disadvantage that it would cause the greatest economic system in the world to "collapse". If that were the case, as much as we are despised around the world, don't you think that it would have been a strategy attempted long ago? Yet it appears that countries that would like to destroy us stand in line to beg for an opportunity to be partners in trade with us. Yes, adjustments would have to be made but they would merely be adjustments which we would withstand and adapt to with little inconvenience. (You'd have to buy American made stuff for a change. Geez, how would we ever recover from that ?) However, our withdrawal would be devastating to every dictator on the planet.

Initially, our decision would be met with threats, terrorism and extortion from desparate dictators (as is the case today). Then we would see all the shameless appeals to our compassion with media footage of death, civil unrest and starving children in countries unable to feed, medicate or pacify their populations without our assistance (as is the case today).

When we finally, consistently and without compromise met each of their appeals to our compassion with silence and each of their attempts at intimidation with utter devastation, then and only then would we see alot of dead dictators and a sincere change of heart around the world.

This is the scenario that must eventually unfold to preserve freedom for the future of humanity. The events of 9-11 should remain an awakening for all the rational, free people of the world.

By assisting in the rebuilding of countries that force our hand against them, we are merely prolonging the stand that we must eventually take. We did not create the ugliness of poverty, oppression, torture and death but we must have enough courage to turn our backs on it temporarily in the interest of ending it permanently. The clock is ticking.

[Craig Read]

Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia live off of US aid.

Crack open one of their dailies or watch their state run TV stations blast Mullah of the Week's sermon on killing Jews, infidels, drinking their blood and imploring God not to leave any alive.

Then you have the post modern morons in Canada asking, "yes but what are they really trying to tell us.... hmm there must be some root cause for this hatred...."

Yes root cause u morons is that they take U$ aid, abuse it, buy nice villa's let their people starve and make sure they don't work, then channel the hatred not against domestic issues but against the Jew-Christian cabal that supposedly wants to destroy the Arab race.

This is the gratitude the US gets for its foreign aid.

Imbecilic pundits like Dowd at the NY Times or the insufferably ugly Klein at the CBC opine that the West is to blame for this state of affairs.

As if Islamic domestic failure was somehow the fault of the family man whose plane was slammed into the Twin Towers.

As if the little 14 yr old Aussie girl who was raped by a Muslim gang of thugs in Sydney, who told her again and again that she was going to 'get f. Lebanese style', is to blame for their pychopathy.

You want root causes for terrorism ? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and foreign aid and the maintenance through such aid and support of despotic anti-Western regimes.

You want root causes for terrorism ? Perverted, narrow minded, anti-modern, sadistic, anti-female societies spewing out hate filled trash and fantasy.

Time to stop calling SA and Egypt 'our friends'.

Time to get busy changing their regimes.

Time to get busy to change our immigration system.

[SirRiff]

not to get in the way of all this UN bashing while touching yourselves, but...

why doesnt any anti-UN argument ever discuss the numberous coups and dictatorships the US has created and supported and profited by?

its living in a fantasy world to think that because the UN is slow and bloated that the US is someone pure and wise.

if the UN didnt exist the US or some other nation would come in, setup another puppet regime, and rape and pillage the nation for its own gain. the examples are numberous and horrible.

at worst the UN is a stabolizing force that brings international attention to bad situations.

all this blaming of an international body whose actions are readily tracked is ridiculas considering US supported attrocities and dictators are ususally hidden for decades before the true evil of american policiy is revealed.

given the alternative, i would take a slow plodding organization. at least we dont learn about thier evils decades after the fact like the US.

SirRiff

[KrustyKidd]

why doesnt any anti-UN argument ever discuss the numberous coups and dictatorships the US has created and supported and profited by?

Nobody knows everything. Nobody is so pure they are beyond reproach. I would go on to sum up some things that you, I and others have gone over at least three times; That is that first, the US trades with every body on the planet. If you know of one place they do not trade with let me know and I’ll say every place but ... Since a majority of the world is under dictatorship, monarchy, communism or some form of unstable government is it any wonder that they end up supporting/trading with/having diplomatic ties with some or all of these?

The next point is that since so many of the left are quick to say how we take advantage of these poor nations it should make a leftist click his heels in glee if and when we fleece these dictators. Anyhow, given the amount of dictators we have to deal with is it any wonder that in such an unstable environment some turn bad? And who can predict ten, fifteen years in advance which ones will and which ones will not see the light and steer their gulag towards democracy?

The US is like everybody else, in it for themselves. They are not in it to save humanity but to save themselves. Anything different then I would imagine the US electorate would find a new government in pretty short order. I have no idea where this fallacy of how the US is responsible to save the planet comes from but you can rest assured that every bit of foreign aid or deal benefits the US either financially or in security. The choice the rest of us have is to take or not take the deal. If somebody is an idiot or starving they generally don’t cut such a good deal. If they don’t like it then they can always embrace democracy and reap the rewards but they don’t. Why? They love to control their people and enslave them. That is where true evil lies. Even then you will note that usually there is a form of aid thrown in to help them out with social programs, food aid and such.. One thing is for sure though, when they set a deal in motion it isn’t lip service, the cheque really is in the mail.

On the other hand the UN is made up of the rest of us. Mostly third world Nations using it as a pick pocket’s festival with the first worlders being the mark. They talk and fax memos saying something should be done and may send a team to investigate but nothing much gets done. Slow? Most of the time not at all. I would say that the true evil on the planet is not the US but rather the UN. It’s policy has been revealed time after time, ineffectual handwringing with too little too late at best or complete apathy.

[Craig Read]

Right on KK. Great post.

The left libs and UNO'ers love to understand 'root causes'.

How about narrow minded religious anti-modern, Saudi funded violent anti-Westernism as the root cause ?

In the al Mukmin Islamic school in the Javanese city of Solo a slogan above one classroom reads, "Death in the way of Allah is our highest aspiration."

In a boarding school where the alumni includes nearly all of Indonesia's top terror suspects, pictures of AK47's are plastered on the hallways.

The homicide bomber from last month's Marriott Hotel blast in Jakarta studied here, as did many of the men now on trial for the Bali bombing last year.Similar scenes exist throughout the Arab world.

Root cause? How about a stone age mentality.

[Nuclear]

We'll never know what would have happened had we not invaded Iraq....had we let them go, maybe a dirty bomb or two would have gone off in a US city by now.....

There was the chance of it happening...the chance of millions of my fellow countrymen to die.

Two years ago(doens't feel like it, wow) over 3,000 innocent people died cause some wacko doesn't like us.

I'm not gonna let the remaining wackos get another shot at us. Even the risk of it is enough evidence for me...even if it means we have to eventually conquer the entire planet!

Found this the day after writing this post: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...a34457_2003sep6

Check it out.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear logical1,

I am afraid that after re-reading my last post, I cannot 'dumb it down' any further. Try reading it slower.

I apologize if that seems juvenile, but the spirit of this board seems to be,' if you can't understand something, attack it with name calling'. You are one of the few noted exceptions.

One of the things that America is based on is the hyper-overvaluation of 'resources' such as entertainment. Truly, something of little or no actual value in relative terms regarding survival, yet it is America's #1 export. With the US being trillions in debt, and their largest export being people playing 'make believe', they are moving the foundations of what was once a great country onto the very dangerous foundation of 'a house of cards'.

The US dollar should be below the peso right now, if it were not for the fact that they can,will and have killed those who oppose them.