Which Party Best For Environment?

[tml12]

While I am sure the left has already spilled their morning coffee with my prediction, I think of THE BIG THREE (Liberal, Conservative, NDP), the Conservatives will do the most for the environment without hurting our economy.

The Liberals, in their state of hyposcrisy, lies, and corruption, signed Kyoto and allowed our greenhouse gases to go up 24% since then (source: Montreal Gazette) including 12% more than the evil environment-hating Americans.

The NDP probably has the most environmentally-friendly plan, yet I am not sure they take into consideration the economy.

The Conservative plan (found at conservative.ca) takes both into consideration. I think the Conservatives and NDP can work with this in a Conservative minority government.

[tml12]

While I am sure the left has already spilled their morning coffee with my prediction, I think of THE BIG THREE (Liberal, Conservative, NDP), the Conservatives will do the most for the environment without hurting our economy.

The Liberals, in their state of hyposcrisy, lies, and corruption, signed Kyoto and allowed our greenhouse gases to go up 24% since then (source: Montreal Gazette) including 12% more than the evil environment-hating Americans.

The NDP probably has the most environmentally-friendly plan, yet I am not sure they take into consideration the economy.

The Conservative plan (found at conservative.ca) takes both into consideration. I think the Conservatives and NDP can work with this in a Conservative minority government.

http://www.canada.com/national/features/de...5f-469ed04eda68

Martin says Conservatives soft on environment...

[err]

While I am sure the left has already spilled their morning coffee with my prediction, I think of THE BIG THREE (Liberal, Conservative, NDP), the Conservatives will do the most for the environment without hurting our economy.

If it involves putting their heads in the sand, when they pull them back out, it won't be better.

The Liberals, in their state of hyposcrisy, lies, and corruption, signed Kyoto and allowed our greenhouse gases to go up 24% since then (source: Montreal Gazette) including 12% more than the evil environment-hating Americans.

Harper has stated that he doesn't believe in Kyoto, and wants to get together with the USA to develop a plan.... At least the USA has finally acknowledged that there is such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect.....

The NDP probably has the most environmentally-friendly plan, yet I am not sure they take into consideration the economy.

During the last election campaign, environmental groups rated the NDP as being "greener than the Greens"....

[Riverwind]

Harper has stated that he doesn't believe in Kyoto, and wants to get together with the USA to develop a plan.... At least the USA has finally acknowledged that there is such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect.....

Kyoto is a seriously flawed protocol that will be impossible to implement by any democratic state if it involves any kind of sacrifice. Any Canadian politician that sent billions of our tax dollars to Russia in order to buy 'credits' would be voted out of office so fast they would not know what happened to them. The fact is reducing emissions is a difficult and expensive proposition and committing to specific targets is unreasonable.

[tml12]

Harper has stated that he doesn't believe in Kyoto, and wants to get together with the USA to develop a plan.... At least the USA has finally acknowledged that there is such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect.....

Kyoto is a seriously flawed protocol that will be impossible to implement by any democratic state if it involves any kind of sacrifice. Any Canadian politician that sent billions of our tax dollars to Russia in order to buy 'credits' would be voted out of office so fast they would not know what happened to them. The fact is reducing emissions is a difficult and expensive proposition and committing to specific targets is unreasonable.

YES and without the U.S. and China (whose gas emissions are killing its own people anyway) it would be impossible for anything to happen.

Meanwhile, the jaded Liberals sign Kyoto and do NOTHING while the Americans do not sign Kyoto and do A LOT...

Canada NEEDS the Conservatives to strengthen this nation out...

[Wilber]

Harper has stated that he doesn't believe in Kyoto, and wants to get together with the USA to develop a plan.... At least the USA has finally acknowledged that there is such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect.....

Kyoto is a seriously flawed protocol that will be impossible to implement by any democratic state if it involves any kind of sacrifice. Any Canadian politician that sent billions of our tax dollars to Russia in order to buy 'credits' would be voted out of office so fast they would not know what happened to them. The fact is reducing emissions is a difficult and expensive proposition and committing to specific targets is unreasonable.

Right on Sparhawk. What kind of idiot would spend millions buying pollution credits from another country instead of using that money to reduce their own. Am I wrong or does this nut bar arrangement just allow both countries to go on polluting?

[Guest eureka]

Kyoto is actually not a flawed protocol but a necessary, vital even, first step. The flawed protocol idea is one that has been pushed by the US.

The only real flaw in Kyoto is that there is no way of enforcing it so that the US is compelled to live up to its committment to Kyoto - yes, it did commit but Bush refuses to put it to the Congress for ratification.

[Yaro]

See stupid statements like this kill the credibility of those who say them. Its posts like this one that quickly turn a board to crap.

[tml12]

Kyoto is actually not a flawed protocol but a necessary, vital even, first step. The flawed protocol idea is one that has been pushed by the US.

The only real flaw in Kyoto is that there is no way of enforcing it so that the US is compelled to live up to its committment to Kyoto - yes, it did commit but Bush refuses to put it to the Congress for ratification.

The "only real flaw?"

Aside from the international flaws with Kyoto, Canada's flaw is that we signed it and did NOTHING... :angry:

I would not mind a CPC minority with the NDP controlling environmental issues...

[Guest eureka]

No doubt, TM, you will outline what the flaws are!

[tml12]

No doubt, TM, you will outline what the flaws are!

Surely you lefties wouldn't mind the NDP controlling environmental issues in a Conservative government? I am definitely ready to give you guys that (because I am pro-environment and I thing CPC and NDP voters can agree the Liberals like to talk about the environment and that's about it.)

Some good criticisms can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to..._Kyoto_Protocol

Since the left likes to criticize the Americans so much, here is a list of American cities that have taken Kyoto action:

Grassroots support in the US

In the US, there is at least one student group Kyoto Now! which aims to use student interest to support pressure towards reducing emissions as targeted by the Kyoto Protocol compliance.

As of November 15, 2004, nine Northeastern US states are involved in the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) RGGI, which is a state level emissions capping and trading program. It is believed that the state-level program will indirectly apply pressure on the federal government by demonstrating that reductions can be achieved without being a signatory of the Kyoto Protocol.

Participating states: Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Delaware.

Observer states and regions: Pennsylvania, Maryland, District of Columbia, Eastern Canadian Provinces.

As of December 2, 2005, 192 US cities representing more than 40 million Americans support Kyoto after Mayor Greg Nickels of Seattle started a nationwide effort to get cities to agree to the protocol.

Large participating cities: Seattle, New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, Denver, New Orleans, Minneapolis, Austin, Portland, Providence, Tacoma, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Little Rock, West Palm Beach, Annapolis

Full list of cities and mayors: US Climate Protection Agreement Home Page

(Source: Wikipedia)

Notice how Eastern Canadian provinces "observe."

[cybercoma]

Which Party Best for Environment?

Uh....The Green Party?

Kyoto is actually not a flawed protocol but a necessary, vital even, first step. The flawed protocol idea is one that has been pushed by the US.

The only real flaw in Kyoto is that there is no way of enforcing it so that the US is compelled to live up to its committment to Kyoto - yes, it did commit but Bush refuses to put it to the Congress for ratification.

How do you support Canada's sovereignty when you're willing to sell it out to the first international pet project that comes around?

Tell me again how spending billions of dollars on Kyoto credits helps improve the environment, our economy or our quality of life? Added to those billions being spent on credits we must spend further on improving our situation.

Perhaps if we followed the United States' lead and put the money on improving greenhouse gas emissions in the first place, instead of spending it on ridiculous conferences and "credits"...we might actually improve our environment instead of paying lip service to international boogey men.

The United States is actually doing something about greenhouse gas emissions, meanwhile back at the ranch we're criticizing them when we haven't even begun to make a fraction of the improvement they have.

[tml12]

Which Party Best for Environment?

Uh....The Green Party?

Kyoto is actually not a flawed protocol but a necessary, vital even, first step. The flawed protocol idea is one that has been pushed by the US.

The only real flaw in Kyoto is that there is no way of enforcing it so that the US is compelled to live up to its committment to Kyoto - yes, it did commit but Bush refuses to put it to the Congress for ratification.

How do you support Canada's sovereignty when you're willing to sell it out to the first international pet project that comes around?

Tell me again how spending billions of dollars on Kyoto credits helps improve the environment, our economy or our quality of life? Added to those billions being spent on credits we must spend further on improving our situation.

Perhaps if we followed the United States' lead and put the money on improving greenhouse gas emissions in the first place, instead of spending it on ridiculous conferences and "credits"...we might actually improve our environment instead of paying lip service to international boogey men.

The United States is actually doing something about greenhouse gas emissions, meanwhile back at the ranch we're criticizing them when we haven't even begun to make a fraction of the improvement they have.

Cybercoma,

I said of "the big THREE." Naturally, the Greens are the best.

Please don't try and confuse the leftiest.

Naturally, Canada is a "kinder, gentler" nation that signed Kyoto, whereas the U.S. didn't, so we are "much better" than those Americans who lack a "global conscience."

The left would be funny if it wasn't so hateful and hypocritical.

[Riverwind]

No doubt, TM, you will outline what the flaws are!

The flaw in the Kyoto agreement are arbitrary targets based on 1991 emissions levels that are not adjusted for increases in population or the fact that producing more natural gas in BC and Alberta increases emissions in Canada but helps reduce emissions in the US.

Kyoto should have focused on continuous improvement and technology sharing - not hard targets . The 'marketplace' for credits was a dumb idea because political pressure has ensured that it will not be the polluting companies that pay for the credits: it will be taxpayers

[err]

Which Party Best for Environment?

Uh....The Green Party?

Sorry Cyber... If you read what the real news is, instead of using your imagination to come up with home-made facts, you might have come up with a different answer...... Environmental groups rated the NDP as "greener than the Greens" last election.....

[tml12]

Which Party Best for Environment?

Uh....The Green Party?

Sorry Cyber... If you read what the real news is, instead of using your imagination to come up with home-made facts, you might have come up with a different answer...... Environmental groups rated the NDP as "greener than the Greens" last election.....

And how would the economy be affected?

[speaker]

I'll point out that while there is somewhat less increase in green house gas emissions per capita than in Canada, this does not make the American Administration any better than the Canadian. I have not seen any factors which explain why the increase is lower south of the border other than that there may be a better record of volunteerism amongst major polluters. This is very commendable but hardly evidence of American Government being better than the Canadian Liberals.

I have asked questions of all party candidates, and it's the same thing, Environment equals ghg's. Talk about head in the sand. There is soil degradation, endangered species, deforestation, loss of fisheries, water pollution, oil and gas depletion, chemical pollution of air and soil. Show me the party with the best policies concerning each of these as distinct recognition of the problems.

It isn't the conservatives or the liberals, given who contributes to each of them we do understand where their priorities lie.

[tml12]

I'll point out that while there is somewhat less increase in green house gas emissions per capita than in Canada, this does not make the American Administration any better than the Canadian. I have not seen any factors which explain why the increase is lower south of the border other than that there may be a better record of volunteerism amongst major polluters. This is very commendable but hardly evidence of American Government being better than the Canadian Liberals.

I have asked questions of all party candidates, and it's the same thing, Environment equals ghg's. Talk about head in the sand. There is soil degradation, endangered species, deforestation, loss of fisheries, water pollution, oil and gas depletion, chemical pollution of air and soil. Show me the party with the best policies concerning each of these as distinct recognition of the problems.

It isn't the conservatives or the liberals, given who contributes to each of them we do understand where their priorities lie.

My point is that, while the Liberals sign Kyoto and do nothing, the Republicans in the States leave it up to States' Rights and more gets done when the blue states with the biggest cities put their own plans in place. I would give both the Canadian and US government grade F when it came to the environment. But at least the US allows plans to take place there and doesn't deny their position, here our government tells us everything is OK when we sign Kyoto and then procede to do NOTHING.

I recognize, Speaker, that the environment represents more than just greenhouse gases. Yet, they represent what we need to be worried about as a nation. Many of those other issues represent issues which may be important to certain Canadians (i.e. from PEI).

No party is best when it comes to "distinct recognition of the problems." Yet, the Conservatives offer a solid plan to combat environmental problems. They have my vote.

[speaker]

I've asked conservative candidates, I've been to the conservative website, as far as I can see there is no environmental protection policies concerning these issues. These issues are more relevant to all Canadians than one might think. Downplaying them as regional issues is an indication of shortsightedness on the conservative side.

If anything else affects our long term economy more, our recreational opportunities to the same extent, or our social fabric as much, it isn't evident to me.

[sage]

One of the major flaws with Kyoto and most enivronmental policies is that they fail to appreciate that one of the most insidious detriments to the environment is not necessarily emissions in the aggregate, but rather density.

In general those whose primary concern is the environment live in cities, which is representative of the fact that it is the ridiculous population density and the accompanying cumulative effects of pollution that cause the most obvious environmental problems.

This is one of the reasons why the U.S. has a better record then Canada in reducing emissions. The pollution is concentrated on the Eastern and Western seaboard's and they have had to act in their own interest to reduce the effects of pollution. Look at California's vehicle emissions policy as an example.

Of course detractors will say that Canada contributes to global warning, etc., and that local policies will not deal with this. To that I simply say the rising dependency on fossil fuels, and its corresponding scarcity (i.e. the rise in demand and shortness of supply) will result in inflated energy prices. Ultimately the economy will do what a bunch of liberal dogooders never could. Reduce fossial fuel emissions.

[speaker]

"Ultimately the economy will do what a bunch of liberal dogooders never could. Reduce fossil fuel emissions."

Okay, the old economy is an intelligence unto itself, and if we but let it happen all will be good, without the dogooders. Well that certainly makes life easier, we don't need to worry anymore about our Grandchildren not having fish to eat, when the sea level rises there will be more room for fish to evade the fishing nets, so the stocks will go up so we'll be able to catch more. Right on.

Unless of course we have already caused extinction in some of the best fish stocks.

Heck we don't even need to think about alternatives because when fossil fuels get to expensive then we will wean ourselves off of them., Do you have any idea how much coal there is out there? If we don't break the habit of using the cheapest, financially not economically, alternative, ie, oil and gas, what is to stop us from saying coal will be next.

There are times when I think if the Liberals and Conservatives had an ounce of foresight between them it would throw them of balance and they would crash into each other forming the conlibs. Of course as it is they are options for us now in elections. lol

[recyko]

IMHO... I don't think any of the parties in the past has done a great with our environmental issues. Even though Canada has signed the Kyoto Protocol, it is noticed that carbon dioxide emission is gradually inclining. And also, I think every government is saying they'll do something about it, but I haven't seen much.. The parties are just saying that to convice the voters to vote for them, but let's just hope one day they will actually do somethign about it...

Good day all.

[B. Max]

I'll point out that while there is somewhat less increase in green house gas emissions per capita than in Canada, this does not make the American Administration any better than the Canadian. I have not seen any factors which explain why the increase is lower south of the border other than that there may be a better record of volunteerism amongst major polluters. This is very commendable but hardly evidence of American Government being better than the Canadian Liberals.

That is because the US has exported production out of the country. It is also what is directly responsible for the recent financial collapse in the US, the repercussion's of which are traveling around the world. This is the damage the tree hugger commies have caused so far, and it's not over. The US has pumped money into the system to try and drive a wedge between the borrowers and lenders in an attempt to isolate the fall out at the bottom and stop it from spiraling upward. It's only temporary window dressing. If they can't pay back the billions of dollars already outstanding because of loss of production, how the hell will they back even more. Add to that the insanity and fraud of the man made global warming hoax which requires in the US case, to shut down, or export more industry or pay blackmail to the rest of the worlds failed Marxist economies and the chaos which this world has never seen before is without limits. As neighbour turns against neighbour, and state turns against state and country against country. A good but mild beginning of this, was this past week and premier's charade and the gang of thieves led by McGuinty tried to extort money from Alberta's oil sands. Ontario which has been exporting its production out of the province is in the same position as the US and possible worse sooner. McGuinty squirms and lashes out desperately as Ontario's economy collapses around his ears. McGuinty, what a hypocrite, the Ontario government actively encourages Ontario business to seek oil sands contracts in Alberta in an attempt to slow the bleeding while his government tries to extort money for them. The premier of Alberta should have broken off all relations with Ontario and banned Ontario companies and goods from Alberta completely.