private health care question

[Biblio Bibuli]

Ah and a study on wait times,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, first you compared good old Canada to Singapore, the U.K., the U.S. etc..

Would you care to give us comparisons where it ISN'T easy to bullshit .... i.e. waiting times?

Thanks! :angry:

[Guest eureka]

Those are not facts, BB. The average US dictor is far less productive than his Canadian counterpart. The main reason for that is paperwork. Where Canadian doctors have too much, US doctors are drowning.

It has been estimated that paperwork alone due to Private care and Insurance requirements, accounts for 15% of the higher costs of the American system.

[willy]

BB, not my study.

We were asked for research I Googled and there you go. If you have a problem go to the site I provided a link. You can look at their methodology.

Facts can be in the eye of the beholder.

[scribblet]

I'd like to see some source or backup for the statement about Canadian nurses leaving the U.S. My neighbour was a nurse in the U.S. (she left Canada when nurses were being laid off big time) and enjoyed her stay there, good money and benefits.

We all agree on universal healthcare, but why should government monopoly of the supply of services be the best or only way to provide it? And whats wrong with choice, choice in how I spend my hard earne dollars.

Ultimately, we could spend 100% of government revenues on health care and we would still get sick and die. More tax dollars will not improve the situation.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Those are not facts, BB. The average US dictor is far less productive than his Canadian counterpart. The main reason for that is paperwork. Where Canadian doctors have too much, US doctors are drowning.

It has been estimated that paperwork alone due to Private care and Insurance requirements, accounts for 15% of the higher costs of the American system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Back in May a lady from Ferndale, Washington, walked into a Waikiki walk-in clinic where I was being pampered. Once the lady gave the receptionist her medical insurance number, the receptionist immediately new everything there was to know about her recent medical history, the name of her GP in Ferndale, her last visit to this GP, the time she was treated in Seattle, the medication she's on, etc. etc..

I was so impressed.

If we had a system like that here, I'm sure that it would save Medicare alot of money. Put the "frequent flyers" with nothing but a cold in their place ... out the door.

Most of our GPs wouldn't like it one bit though.

[Yaro]

The reason that many Canadian nurses come back after a stint in the U.S. is always basicly the same .... "They worked my ass off." And many are back because they were kicked out, because they were too slow & incompetent. This is a fact!

Canadian nurses come back because they have made the money they went to make and no longer wish to live in the US; this includes several members of my family.

The doctors? The doctors get paid more in the U.S. because they produce more.

Some doctors get paid more in the US and some don't. Primarily GPs are paid more in the US and Specialists paid more in Canada. It should be noted that more doctors moved from the US to Canada last year then vica versa however.

They produce more because they are heavily encouraged to specialize. You see, in the U.S. they do believe in sayings like .."practice makes perfect". They also know that some surgeons are more talented at replacing hips, other's natural tallent may lie in fiddling with tiny little bones in your fingers & toes, yet others are natural born knee replacers. ETC, ETC, ETC.

There are more specialists and they are better paid in Canada.

Not like in Canada, where doctors have "quotas". Did you know that in Canada a doctor can do only a certain number of this or that kind of surgury before he is cut off for the rest of the year? NO MATTER HOW GOOD & QUICK HE/SHE is.

That’s right there are quotas, and I agree that this is a major problem. But the reason for the quotas isn't a shortage of either doctors or facilities; it’s a shortage of money to pay those doctors to use those facilities.

Why do you think there are so many more anesthetists needed in Canada than in the U.S. 

Because for years the US has been leaching off the Canadian education system, only in the last couple of years have more doctors come from the US to Canada then the other way around.

You make an interesting jump in logic here.

You first argue that the system is underutilized. Then you make a big judgment that it is just a matter of money.

Yes I agree they can not use the physical resources in the system but if you went back and read what I actually wrote you would see that my diagnosis was a systemic problem. They do not have the flexibility or the culture to enable them to achieve full utilization.

Obviously you don't understand what I said, the system is under funded. This means that despite the fact that there are doctors and facilities, those doctors don't use those facilities because there isn't enough money in the system to pay for it. Which is basically what this thread is about, the Alberta government threw some money at it and the problem went away. They even admit in the article that this system of private overflow clinics (the French system) was not more cost effective then it would have been to do it all within the system.

Indicators are what you measure to check long term success. West Jet has by far the best market position, they have many new planes coming online that use less fuel and will spend more time in the air. They have a huge efficiency advantage. it takes 120 Air Canada employees to fly a plane it only takes 70 West Jet employees. West Jet planes are in the air 12 hours a day compared to less than 8 hours by Air Canada.

West Jet has smaller aircraft, poor coverage and it is indeed Air Canada that has the shorter turn around time on flights. Air Canada also has the world’s best safety record for a national carrier. Air Canada is making more money, and that will continue for a very long time while West Jet turns there fleet around.

Your indicators would be the quarterly earnings. (guess) I hope you don't buy stock or you will be a drain on the social safety net as you age. Air Canada sold of some major assets in the last 2 quarters that are showing up on the books now. West Jet has made some investments in that same time. Who do you think will have huge profits 3 quarters from now?

West Jet will continue to have to make some large investments as there fleet is still old and relatively poorly maintained. So while I agree that at some point West Jet will become quite profitable again it won't be within the next year.

Long term sustainability is impacted by your ability to maximize your resources and to have a dedicated workforce that is the engine that drives you forward.

While this is full of buzzwords and cliché’s, I essentially agree that West Jet has an excellent workforce and good business strategy and is a good investment.

In the public healthcare systems they have a mistrusting environment that has been toxic to employee moral. To rid the system of this cultural dynamic would take a management feat I have never seen.

To some extent yes, overall however critical care outcomes are still better in Canada.