Green Party in Alberta

[CamTheCat]

I moved to Alberta from BC five years ago, (My parents are born & raised Albertans) and there is a BIG difference in the opinions of voters out here. I grew up with green values, but in Alberta those beliefs are not always seen as priorities. Interestingly the green party is gaining strength here, and I think even many conservative voters are considering voting Green Party.

Some voters are afraid that they'll be throwing away their votes if they vote GP. But by supporting this party, it sends a clear message to the current gov't that we want more green policies in our province.

Some voters are worried that a vote for the Greens would detract from the Liberals, allowing the conservatives to sneak up, or vice versa. But this just simply doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. I don't want either of those parties in power.

Some voters are Christians that think of the issues of abortion and gay rights as THE issues, as they apply to their religion. This is a sticky subject out here, and I've met some very very right wing christians who feel very strongly that a vote for any party other than the cons would be a ticket to hell. At the same time I've met some Christians who vote green. I cannot 'judge' them based on their lifestyle and faith. Man, it sure is a deep issue.

I wonder how the green party could win the votes of conservatives? It sure would be interesting to see someone try. The first thing they have going for themselves is that they're fiscally conservative.

Cameron

[Toro]

I think the Green Party should scrap its commitment to Kyoto. Then you'd get some conservative voters...

[Hawk]

I think the Green Party should scrap its commitment to Kyoto.  Then you'd get some conservative voters...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

amen

that would kill Alberta more than any other province, especially since it so obviously aimed at us (I mean seriously, why should Ontario's auto industry be exempt?)

I will never vote green, NDP, Liberal, or ANY socialist party into power. I have seen them destroy nations throughout history and soon Canada will join those ranks, hopefully Alberta is no longer part of the sinking ship by that time.

[B. Max]

I moved to Alberta from BC five years ago, and there is a BIG difference in the opinions of voters out here. I grew up with green values, but in Alberta those beliefs are not priorities. Interestingly the green party is gaining strength here, and I think even many conservative voters age considering voting Green Party.

Some voters are afraid that they'll be throwing away their votes if they vote GP. But by supporting their party, it sends a clear message to the current gov't that we want more green policies in our province.

Some voters are worried that a vote for the Greens would detract from the Liberals, allowing the conservatives to sneak up. But this just simply won't happen. I see that the conservatives - while strong here in Alberta - are not doing well overall.

Some voters are Christians that think of the issues of abortion and gay-rights as THE issues, as they apply to their religion. This is a sticky subject out here, and I've met some very very right wing christians who feel very strongly that a vote for any party other than the cons would be a ticket to hell. At the same time I've met some very reasonable christians who vote green. I cannot 'judge' them based on their lifestyle and faith. Man, it sure is a deep issue.

I wonder how the green party could win the votes of conservatives? It sure would be interesting to see someone try.

Cameron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most likely you moved here five years ago because the BC ndp parked the economy in BC and bragged about it. At that time economic refugees were floading into alberta from BC because of the green insanity followed by the ndp.

I agree with hawk, and while we are at it toss all the treehuggers over board.

[CamTheCat]

I'm still hoping someone out there can offer some valuable feedback on this subject.

[err]

I'm still hoping someone out there can offer some valuable feedback on this subject.

An interesting note... last federal election, several environmental groups rated the NDP's platform as being greener than the greens....

[Guest eureka]

And the Greens as being as conservative!

[Toro]

In all seriousness, if you want conservative voters, avoid the "corporations rule the world" and "brands are tyranny" Naomi Klein type rhetoric. That will get you NDP voters, but you won't get conservative voters.

Many conservative voters are environmentalists since many like to fish and hunt, and you can't do that if everything in the forest is dead.

[CamTheCat]

The NDP has felt pressure from the Green party to appear more focussed on the environment, but when given the chance, by enlarge, they havnot followed through. Also, the NDP hasn't commited to meeting the Kyoto protocol targets, and the Greens have.

Some people acuse the Greens of being to much in the 'center', based on their corporate friendly position. The Greens want to see a Canada with a healthy economy, and are not as much of an enemy of comerce as some believe.

I feel for the conservatives who do care about the environment. Why aren't they voting green? This isn't a vote for the Liberals or the NDP, but a statement that one wants to see change regarding environmental care - or lack thereof.

As the Green party grows I hope to see conservatives taking a look at the Greens platform. While it does differ greatly in many key areas, it also has been called 'appealing to conservatives' by some. I guess this is because of the use of the word conservatives, as in conservation. Man, I hate it when ppl use the same word for different meanings.

Anyways, thanks for the thoughts.

L8R

[CamTheCat]

The Greens seem to me to be socialist in principle, and in their platform on many points.

The conservitives had a platform last year regarding the economy that included creating green jobs to increase employment.

This was part of the Green platform on economy...

...shift taxes from income to resource use- increases employment and reduces environmental impact. More tax breaks on the lowest-income Canadians, no tax break for corporate capital gains. Taxes on land use. Tax breaks to environmental innovators and other social considerations i.e.. onsite childcare...

...Move to conservation and alternative technology promises many new jobs- more than enough to compensate for the phasing out of old polluting industries. Focus on workplace improvements and quality of life at work, match skills and demand better. Less tax=more jobs.

The greens aren't anti-corporations (well, some members are), but instead they just want to see proper use of Canadas resources by big businesses that will be taxed if they don't clean up their act.

Cameron

[Yaro]

I will never vote green, NDP, Liberal, or ANY socialist party into power. I have seen them destroy nations throughout history and soon Canada will join those ranks, hopefully Alberta is no longer part of the sinking ship by that time.

Care to name one? Or is this another of those statements that is implicitly obvious even though the Klein government may very well be the most socialist in the country? Please enlighten me.

[Hawk]

I will never vote green, NDP, Liberal, or ANY socialist party into power. I have seen them destroy nations throughout history and soon Canada will join those ranks, hopefully Alberta is no longer part of the sinking ship by that time.

Care to name one? Or is this another of those statements that is implicitly obvious even though the Klein government may very well be the most socialist in the country? Please enlighten me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where to begin... hmm, how about Rome? Or how about the mother of communism, Russia? Or China (although lately it is going capitalist, and getting stronger)? Or Cuba (used to be a rich nation, till Castro took over)? Or Germany (Nationalist Socialist Party)? The list goes on and on, you should look into it before posting. Thanks.

Oh, and as for Klein, explain how reducing government costs and wages is in any way socialist =p Regardless, I am not a huge Klein fan, but he is definitely heads over the competition.

[CamTheCat]

Well, as the old saying goes, "with great power comes great responsibility". I like this one too... "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

There are successful socialist styled governments, as well as unsuccessfull ones, just like there have been successfull and unsuccessfull capitalist governments. Corruptuion played a role in many failed governments throughout the course of history. As time passes, it seems that the idea of an ever expanding capitalist model is running out of room to expand.

The Green party has been very successfull in other countries, and believe it or not, the Greens here in Canada seem to be less socialist than you might think, (not that socialism is bad).

I'd love to get some comments regarding what about the Green Party in Canada is socialist, and what is conservative, as this party seems to be a growing force and I need help understanding what their platform is all about.

"The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation." - A. Einstein

"What many now call 'growth' will soon be seen as accelerated decay." - Dan Fiscus

"After the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten." - Cree Indian Prophecy

[tml12]

I will never vote green, NDP, Liberal, or ANY socialist party into power. I have seen them destroy nations throughout history and soon Canada will join those ranks, hopefully Alberta is no longer part of the sinking ship by that time.

Care to name one? Or is this another of those statements that is implicitly obvious even though the Klein government may very well be the most socialist in the country? Please enlighten me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HUH???

[CamTheCat]

Here's a great article/essay by Preston Manning. Enjoy.

Green Conservatives and Blue Conservationists by Preston Manning*

(Calgary) The question on the poster on the university billboard was clear and provocative: Can Genuine Conservation and Economic Conservatism Be Reconciled?

Inside the lecture hall where the question was to be debated a curiously diverse audience had assembled. Members and supporters of the Green Party buoyed by their surprising showing in the recent federal election; members of the campus Conservative Club and their friends; students in political science and economics but also a few from the physical sciences; and a smattering of others – a Toronto business man who came west to be a rancher, employees and volunteers from several environmental advocacy groups, several oil company risk managers and land men, a professor of environmental engineering, and others who kept their interests and political colours to themselves.

The chairman, a history student and environmental activist who had organized the meeting, called it to order. The panellists – a conservative politician, a green politician, a free market environmentalist, and an environmental scientist – went through their paces. Seven minutes each to state their views, half an hour of debate among themselves, and then an hour responding to questions and comments from the audience. A democratic and educational exercise, focused on an important issue, which ought to be replicated on every campus across the country.

Relevant observations and conclusions? Here are five which registered with me:

1. Green Tories: There are such creatures as “green conservatives” – people who believe in free markets and fiscal responsibility and are genuinely commitment to the conservation of natural capital – land, water, forests, and wildlife. These people recognize that “conservation” and “conservative” derive from the same root. They are as yet a minority within most conservative parties, but they are destined to increase in numbers and influence in the years ahead.

2. Blue Environmentalists: There are also such creatures as “blue environmentalists” – people who are deeply committed to conserving our natural environment but who have also come to believe that this goal is more likely to be achieved through the reshaping of consumer demands and the harnessing of market forces to meet those demands, than by political protests and heavy-handed government interventions in the economy. These people are a minority within the Green movement, and it is not yet clear whether left-wing Greens will ultimately accept or reject them.

3. Full Cost Accounting and Pricing: If there is one single concept which may bring genuine conservationists and economic conservatives on to common ground, this may be it. If a new hydro dam is required in response to consumer demand for energy, the “cost” must include not only the cost of developing and delivering the new supply, but also the cost of mitigating its negative environmental impacts. This aggregate cost must be reflected in the price of the energy produced, and if the cost is too high, consumers will and should seek other alternatives. But full cost accounting and pricing must cut both ways. If a new environmental protection measure (like Kyoto) is proposed in response to public demand, this too must be fully costed out (never done in the case of Kyoto), and the public must understand that this cost too will ultimately be incorporated in the prices of the goods and services affected. Once again, if the cost proves to be too high, the public will and should seek other alternatives.

4. Hard Choices: If political activists who have cut their teeth in the Green movement want to make the transition from protest and advocacy to governmental responsibility, they must be prepared to make some hard choices. The hard choices for a governing party are not the choices between “something good” (like environmental conservation) and “something bad” (like environmental destruction). The hard choices are between two good things (like whether to put more money into education or health care) or between the lesser of two evils (like whether to restrict civil liberties to get more security from terrorism, or to have less security). For example, it would be in the overall interests of the environment in Canada if Ontario Hydro were to replace some of its nuclear and coal fired power generation with renewable hydro power from Manitoba. But the accelerated development of Manitoba hydro sources will also have some deleterious environmental effects in Manitoba. Will Manitoba environmentalists choose to protest that accelerated development because of these effects, or support it for the sake of the greater environmental good?

5. Beyond Left and Right: One can be concerned and active in conserving the environment without being a socialist, and one can be committed to responsible private enterprise and limited government and still be a committed conservationist. Both green conservatives and blue environmentalists are moving beyond the old “left-right” paradigm of traditional politics and are uncomfortable with the old categories and labels (including “green” and “blue”). If they can learn to work together in practical ways they might very well invent a new political paradigm – politics of a different colour for the 21st century.

This describes the Green Partys' fiscally conservative stance very well. It blew me away when I realized that this party has a real plan to make it work.

L8R

[Guest eureka]

Manning must have been reading John Ralston Saul. Saul, though, applies Full Cost Accouning more responsibly and casts a wider net.

Manning never had a brilliant idea in his life.

[CamTheCat]

Regardless of your opinion of Preston Manning, the article does point to the appeal of the Green Party to conservatives.

[speaker]

is manning thinking of making a comeback as a green? I like the discussion that is going on in the red green blues, when it comes down to making the tough choices like whether to support the establishment of some kind of depletion charge to fossil fuels or investing more in alternativer forms of agriculture, transportation, consumer goods production Canadians will likely put the decision off for a little while.

[CamTheCat]

More are more Canadians are realising that the decision isn't our to put off any longer.

If every person in the world lived at the same rate of consumption as we do in north america we'd all need three earths to sustain it.

Last election almost 600,000 Canadians voted Green. Here in rural Alberta a lot of Conservatives are seeing the Green Party as a real option, as well as the Libs and NDPers.

Cam