Government jobs-Canadians need ont apply

[Canuck E Stan]

your citizenship doesn't give the right to work in Ottawa

So you're tired of working just weekends and you want to apply for a government position in Ottawa that you know you are fully qualified to do.Well if you live outside of Ottawa you can just forgettaboutit. Number 1 requirement is your postal code.The right postal code allows you to apply,not your education,experience or even how great you might be at the job. In order to apply you have to have the right postal code.

Here's how daft this hiring policy gets.

One job from Casey's list is with Corrections Canada. That department falls under the control of Deputy PM Anne McLellan. But if the Edmonton Centre MP wanted to apply for this position in one of her own departments, she wouldn't be eligible because of her postal code.

There's another job with the federal Department of Health, which is currently headed by Ujjal Dosanjh - but he couldn't apply for it. "Any application from Minister Dosanjh would be automatically discarded because he has a British Columbia postal code," says Casey.

One job that's being advertised at the moment is for a "materiel manager" for the Department of Defence in Ottawa. "If DND needs a soldier to go to Afghanistan, they will accept applications from the western provinces," Casey points out. "For a safe job in Ottawa, the applications are reserved for only Ottawa-area postal code applicants."

You have to wonder, if Ottawa were to get the best people it could to run the day to day working of the government, based on talent instead of postal codes, maybe the government might not be as messed up as it is."

[Montgomery Burns]

Government jobs are a huge strain on the hard-working taxpayers of Canada. I know a few people who work for the govt. Every single one has the same thing to say:

The govt is grossly inefficient and if it was a private company, they would be out of business. They all tell me about the 30-40 minute coffee breaks and the extra 15-30 minutes for lunch.

Flabbergasted, I ask them, "What does your supervisor say?"

They all tell me that their supervisor is there with them.

Granted, I am only talking about a half dozen people, but if you add it up for a whole department (about one hour per employee a day on the taxpayers dime), it is a flagrant abuse of taxpayer money.

I am not dissing the govt employees I know; they are lucky. However, I resent having to pay for this gross inefficiency.

I cannot afford to pay my employees an extra one hour a day to sip coffee and take long lunch breaks, and I resent having to pay for this waste.

One of the first things you learn in Business Administration is:

Efficiency plus Effectiveness = Economy (the three Eees).

In the interest of fairness, I am sure that there are some good honorable govt employees, but I truly believe that most are infected with the "screw the public; we've got it made" disease.

[kimmy]

My disappointment at knowing I won't be able to have a federal government job is somewhat tempered by my relief that I won't have to beat the shit out of myself for getting a federal government job.

In truth, this is a non-issue to me. I am 22 years and 3 months old, which means that if I started learning french tomorrow, I'd be starting about 22 years too late for me to learn the language fluently enough to ever pass the government's testing. And, even if I had started learning french from day 1, I still wouldn't be able to advance much higher than assistant chief paper-shuffler, since my name's not LeBlanc or Lapointe or so-on.

On the bright side, the feds won't be hiring anybody for quite some time. I recall reading recently that PMPM is considering cutting 41,000 civil service jobs. It warms my heart to think of M. LeBlanc huddled up against the exhaust at the National Arts Centre, trying to keep warm while he begs for change from Rideau Centre shoppers, and Mme Lapointe telling her children that Santa won't be coming this year.

-k

[Argus]

Government jobs are a huge strain on the hard-working taxpayers of Canada.  I know a few people who work for the govt.  Every single one has the same thing to say:

The govt is grossly inefficient and if it was a private company, they would be out of business.  They all tell me about the 30-40 minute coffee breaks and the extra 15-30 minutes for lunch.

Flabbergasted, I ask them, "What does your supervisor say?"  

They all tell me that their supervisor is there with them.  

Granted, I am only talking about a half dozen people, but if you add it up for a whole department (about one hour per employee a day on the taxpayers dime), it is a flagrant abuse of taxpayer money.

Fact is that sort of thing usually does not happen. There are departments, or groups or sections within departments where you can get away with that (including mine, btw), but they are not that common. Most of the people I know work their butts off in their government jobs.

That does not mean there isn't waste, and tremendous waste. But it mainly comes from the massive time waste of the bureacracy, of the long, pointless meetings, and the reams and reams of paperwork. HR is a huge culprit in all government departments. For example, we literally have more HR people in DND than we have soldiers who carry rifles. In my department, it takes months - and months - and months - to go through all the paperwork and arrange to have a competition to hire anyone.

And then there's more paperwork. We hired someone at the beginning of last month. It took us until last week to get a government employee number for her. Why is that necessary? Because without one they can't get a computer account - or a pass - or a pay cheque.

Another rising time-waster is purchasing. Because of the sponsorship scandal, which we all know was politically driven, not inspired by crooked civil servants, most departments have really cracked down on purchasing rules and centralized even fairly small scale ($5k) purchasing. The result, of course, is much more paperwork, much more bureacracy, much more delay, and much more cost whenever you want to buy goods or services. Something which would have been done in an hour last year now takes weeks.

So it's not my extra ten minutes at lunch that's costing you, it's the hours and hours and hours I have to devote to the red tape needed to do my job.

[Argus]

My disappointment at knowing I won't be able to have a federal government job is somewhat tempered by my relief that I won't have to beat the shit out of myself for getting a federal government job.

In truth, this is a non-issue to me. I am 22 years and 3 months old, which means that if I started learning french tomorrow, I'd be starting about 22 years too late for me to learn the language fluently enough to ever pass the government's testing. And, even if I had started learning french from day 1, I still wouldn't be able to advance much higher than assistant chief paper-shuffler, since my name's not LeBlanc or Lapointe or so-on.

There are only two anglos in my group of 20 people, and the other one is a Quebecer married to a Francophone.

On the bright side, the feds won't be hiring anybody for quite some time. I recall reading recently that PMPM is considering cutting 41,000 civil service jobs.  It warms my heart to think of M. LeBlanc huddled up against the exhaust at the National Arts Centre, trying to keep warm while he begs for change from Rideau Centre shoppers, and Mme Lapointe telling her children that Santa won't be coming this year.

Don't count on it, chicky, it ain't gonna happen. We all had a great laugh when word of that came out. The idea was to have one giant HR department, and one giant IT department and one giant purchasing department, if I remember correctly. Well I can tell you what's happened every time HR has "centralized". It has taken longer to get anything done, with more meetings, and more paperwork. And the idea that all those deputy ministers are going to let someone else take control of the hiring rules in their departments is just laughable. They'd fight that one to the end. It is almost as bad. The bigger the IT department the more idiots it collects and the fewer workers who get things done.

No, I'm afraid this is one of those academic report type things which looks great on paper but is unworkable in real life. It will not happen. And if it ever did happen, the result would be that they'd have to hire more people.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

No, I'm afraid this is one of those academic report type things which looks great on paper but is unworkable in real life. It will not happen. And if it ever did happen, the result would be that they'd have to hire more people.

Have you ever seen "Yes, Minister"? I am not much one for TV, but that was my favourite show of all time. If you haven't seen it, I urge you to somehow try. I have been searching for a 'boxed set' for some time, and I'd pay dearly to have it.

[Guest eureka]

There is a book of the programs, Tfb. I have it.

[Canuck E Stan]

theloniusfleabag,

Good news, "Yes, Minister" is available on DVD through Amazon.

Yes Minister

Enjoy!

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear eureka and Canuck E Stan,

Thank you, gentlemen. I have just ordered it this am. I used to have most of both series' on VHS, (and 1 full beta!) but haven't seen it for a while.

My sister used to be in the law dept for the B.C. Ministry of Finance (she was the one who introduced me to the series) and she could not belive how similar it was to reality (which is scary, since it is mainly farce!)

[Argus]

Dear Argus,

No, I'm afraid this is one of those academic report type things which looks great on paper but is unworkable in real life. It will not happen. And if it ever did happen, the result would be that they'd have to hire more people.

Have you ever seen "Yes, Minister"? I am not much one for TV, but that was my favourite show of all time. If you haven't seen it, I urge you to somehow try. I have been searching for a 'boxed set' for some time, and I'd pay dearly to have it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I loved Yes, Minister, and Yes, Prime Minister as well. One of the episodes I remember so well was the one on the transportation board. As Sir Humphrey explained to his dazed Minister, who thought they needed a transportation policy, that it would be a great thing for the nation to have, but not a good thing for a politician to be responsible for.

"We need a transportation policy like we need an extra hole in the cranium. It's the ultimate vote loser. You'll please 1 group but everyone else will want your head. And long before any benefits acrue you and I will be long gone."

I remember it because it's particularly true in explaning why governments are so short-sighted in what they do.

[Argus]

My sister used to be in the law dept for the B.C. Ministry of Finance (she was the one who introduced me to the series) and she could not belive how similar it was to reality (which is scary, since it is mainly farce!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My mother worked on parliament hill for an MP, who became a minister. Believe me, farce is an apt description of much of what goes on there. The only thing the series left out was all the adultery - very common on parliament hill with all those MPs and ministers away from home and family.

[kimmy]

There are only two anglos in my group of 20 people, and the other one is a Quebecer married to a Francophone.

out of curiousity, how long have you and the other anglo been there? I'm guessing that you've both been there for long enough to have been hired under different regulations?

Don't count on it, chicky, it ain't gonna happen. We all had a great laugh when word of that came out.

oh well. Say hi to Mme. Lapointe for me.

-k

[Argus]

There are only two anglos in my group of 20 people, and the other one is a Quebecer married to a Francophone.

out of curiousity, how long have you and the other anglo been there? I'm guessing that you've both been there for long enough to have been hired under different regulations?

I was originally hired 5 years ago as a term. The plain and simple fact was there were no francoph... I mean, bilingual people available to do the job I was hired for. They either took me or did without. Then, of course, they fell in love with me and insisted on hiring and promoting me. Still, I am the very obvious choice for manager of our group, and would have been made manager the last few times the job came open but for lack of bilingualism. That's severely irritating, but I like my job anyway.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

and would have been made manager the last few times the job came open but for lack of bilingualism. That's severely irritating, but I like my job anyway.

Is there a way your employer will pay for language classes? Bi-lingualism is generally helpful, no matter what the language. Exercise for the mind, so they say. My francais is deplorable, but I have picked up a bit of Cantonese (which probably outnumber French speakers by now!), Greek and Punjabi.

[kimmy]

Dear Argus,

and would have been made manager the last few times the job came open but for lack of bilingualism. That's severely irritating, but I like my job anyway.

Is there a way your employer will pay for language classes? Bi-lingualism is generally helpful, no matter what the language. Exercise for the mind, so they say. My francais is deplorable, but I have picked up a bit of Cantonese (which probably outnumber French speakers by now!), Greek and Punjabi.

There was a thread a while ago about this. I shall endeavor to search for it. It refered to a government-commissioned survey about the acceptance of official bilingualism within civil service ranks. It found a large portion of civil servants annoyed by being forced to take language training for jobs that in practice require no french, along with other findings that made the language policy seem less-than-brilliant. Argus had some interesting comments in that thread, including the claim that job language requirements are arbitrarily reclassified according to who the manager wants to promote.

-k

[Canuck E Stan]

from the National Post today:

Wanted: Expert in seamanship, sailors need not apply

The Department of National Defence is looking for a civilian expert in "seamanship equipment requirements," and according to the official government job posting only those living nowhere near salt water need apply. Must be a resident of "eastern Ontario or western Quebec,"

Bill Casey(Halifax Conservative MP) says the government is cutting itself off from the most qualified pool of applicants by restricting the competition for such jobs. "It competely baffles me why they do this. The Minister of(Defense) himself told me he doesn't understand the reasoning for this."

"there was one they advertised earlier this year for a deck hand for the Department of Fisheries...limited to Ottawa applicants.It's outrageous."

Aye,aye matey,don't make waves.Captain Pauly knows what's best for the ship.He's been runnin' in the ship's business and he knows where yer best deck hands come from.

[Argus]

Dear Argus,

and would have been made manager the last few times the job came open but for lack of bilingualism. That's severely irritating, but I like my job anyway.

Is there a way your employer will pay for language classes? Bi-lingualism is generally helpful, no matter what the language. Exercise for the mind, so they say. My francais is deplorable, but I have picked up a bit of Cantonese (which probably outnumber French speakers by now!), Greek and Punjabi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There has been a huge shortfall of French language teachers in the Ottawa area for years. And French teachers/tutors charge $40hr and up, when you can get them. Our particular department restricts full language training to managers at the MG-06 level or higher, and those occupying bilingual imperative/non imperative positions. Even then there's usually a two or more year wait (given those in bilingual non-imperative positions have 2 years to meet language requirements that's a heckuva problem). Generally it is reckoned to take something like 1000 hours of in-class training to become fluent enough to pass government tests. You do the math.

Thus most of the people occupying bilingual positions are Francophones (71% by Treasury Board statistics) and Anglos from Quebec who grow up in the French millieu.