Would you vote CPC?

[Fortunata]

Seriously. What exactly does this term mean, anyway? I take it to mean "We're better than you!, Na na na na naaa naa!" or something equally mature, usually ladled with heaping portions of self righteous moral superiority. Was Hitler Progressive? Stalin? I mean, they had a lot of ideas on how to change their society. Is that what makes you progressive?

Argus, the word progressive may have been bad choice to use. But in no way does it mean (to me) superior in any way. I want to move forward, but I guess the same as most people, I want to move forward MY way.

I agree with women having the right to choose; I agree with gays being able to marry; I would agree to polygamous marriages between consenting adults (i.e., not 16 year olds being forced to marry 50 year olds), I think marijuana should be legalized and prostitution either decriminalized or legalized. Socially, IMV, Liberals move forward and the Conservatives do not want to. The more rights we have individually the better off we are. And before people decry this attitude let me just say (now THERE'S a Paul Martin for you ) that people then can choose their lifestyle without the government telling you you either can't or you have to. Choice is good. Teaching your children your values will become more valuable as society may move away from what your conscience dictates you do with your life. But it will be YOUR choice and then your children's choice and not government's choice.

[daniel]

Harper drove Belinda from the CPC.  A huge error on his part in more ways than one. Not a good leadership move.

Martin bought Belinda, and she was more than willing to go. She cared more about her personal career than representing her riding, she deserves every nasty word or bad publicity that gets thrown her way.

It had nothing whatsoever to do with leadership.

Perhaps you weren't listening to her interviews the night of her departure. She was already deciding to leave that weekend no matter what. It had to do with Harper's leadership but she didn't want to get into details (as with her relationship with McKay).

It was David Peterson that came up with the idea of offering her the cabinet post that brought her further across the floor to join the Liberals.

[Argus]

Seriously. What exactly does this term mean, anyway? I take it to mean "We're better than you!, Na na na na naaa naa!" or something equally mature, usually ladled with heaping portions of self righteous moral superiority. Was Hitler Progressive? Stalin? I mean, they had a lot of ideas on how to change their society. Is that what makes you progressive?

I agree with women having the right to choose; I agree with gays being able to marry; I would agree to polygamous marriages between consenting adults (i.e., not 16 year olds being forced to marry 50 year olds), I think marijuana should be legalized and prostitution either decriminalized or legalized. Socially, IMV, Liberals move forward and the Conservatives do not want to. The more rights we have individually the better off we are.

Okay, so progressive means moving "forward" and giving people more individual rights"? Have I got that right? But how do you interpret that on an individual basis?

For example. I oppose hate legislation. Most "progessives" or those who believe themselves to be progressive, seem rather enthusiastic about it, much liking the idea of punishing people for saying rude things.

Another example. I oppose immigration in large measure because I think the cultures which are coming over here and flourishing are rather backward and regressive and will affect our overall society. Yet those who embrace "progressive" causes are quite taken with bringing over as many of these cultures as possible and helping them maintain their cultural value set here.

Is it progressive to want Sharia law in Canada? Many of those on the left seem to think so, and I can't understand why.

Is it progressive to be in favour of affirmative action when that explicitly requires showing a preference for one person over another more qualified person due to race, religion or gender? Most progressives seem quite taken with the idea. And if you believe in elementary fairness towards the individual and having the best person suceed you're regressive?

And what if you're "regressive" on things like single motherhood because you believe it leads to more poverty and maladjusted children (statistically proven) and is thus detrimental to society as a whole?

government telling you you either can't or you have to.  Choice is good.  Teaching your children your values will become more valuable as society may move away from what your conscience dictates you do with your life. 

There's another thought. Progressives seem to like to teach other people's children their values in the public schools even where their values conflict heavily with the values of the chidren's parents. Why is that? Shouldn't schools simply concentrate on teaching reading, writing and arithmetic - especially since they are doing such a lousy job of it, and not brainwash children with the moral values of whomever gets control of the school board?

You see, I have a lot of questions about what being progressive and moving forward means.

[kimmy]

Is it progressive to want Sharia law in Canada? Many of those on the left seem to think so, and I can't understand why.

Tricky issue for lefties, pitting their support for women's issues against their support for swarthy-people and for non-Christian religions.

Being progressive is tough when you're not sure whose progress needs your sympathy more.

-k

[Fortunata]

Okay, so progressive means moving "forward" and giving people more individual rights"? Have I got that right? But how do you interpret that on an individual basis?

That's why progressive was an unfortunate choice of words, which I already pointed out. Progressive is subjective. Islamofacists want to progress back to the 15th century. Conservatives (many of) want to progress back to the 1950s. Moving forward to the unknowns seems to bother many people and, yet, some embrace it. Most (arguably), like myself, want to move forward on individual freedoms.

For example. I oppose hate legislation. Most "progessives" or those who believe themselves to be progressive, seem rather enthusiastic about it, much liking the idea of punishing people for saying rude things.

Hate legislation was brought in as a result of a small but very vocal minority's lobbying of the government. It used to be people could keep a civil tongue in their heads and hate legislation was unthought of. Now we have people advocating nuking populaces (read Free Dominion lately?), people (teachers) denying history or rewriting it to impressionable young minds ... what do you do about these people??? Having said that, I do not agree on hate legislation, IMV, it leads to unneccessary vindictivenesses that might otherwise be solved without supporting lawyers with their oversize bank accounts.

Another example. I oppose immigration in large measure because I think the cultures which are coming over here and flourishing are rather backward and regressive and will affect our overall society. Yet those who embrace "progressive" causes are quite taken with bringing over as many of these cultures as possible and helping them maintain their cultural value set here.

I haven't a problem with immigration per se - I DO have a problem with our immigration policies. I like walking down the street in Vancouver and hearing a multitude of languages, seeing a multitude of colours and smelling a multitude of ethnic cooking smells. I don't like how we decide who gets and in and who doesn't. I don't like the fact that some immigrants bring their wars to our shores. I don't like the fact that in some places ethnicities make their own communities to the exclusion of all other influences (they might as well stay at home in their own country then). I have heard experts on tv say that it only takes one generation though, to mainly assimilate into mainstream society. The kids usually want to be just like everyone else and that's when the move from their culture to our culture takes place. I think, but have only a few personal experiences to go on, that in some cases it takes longer.

Is it progressive to want Sharia law in Canada? Many of those on the left seem to think so, and I can't understand why.

I guess, by your standards, I would be a lefty (although I think that I am more a centrist) and I do not agree with Sharia law in Canada. What's more, NOT ONE of my friends (who are more or less the same political bent as I am) wishes to see it in this country. Sharia law is not progressive by anyone's stretch of imagination. It is regressive to the extreme and will absolutely be a problem with women's and children's freedoms and rights.

And what if you're "regressive" on things like single motherhood because you believe it leads to more poverty and maladjusted children (statistically proven) and is thus detrimental to society as a whole?

Single motherhood is a fact of life. It is neither progressive nor regressive. You could not legislate against single motherhood -- how could you? Single parenting can lead to poverty, more mothers than fathers BUT what's the answer to that? Take children away if a marriage breaks down or the husband/father dies? And put those children where? In group homes where I'm sure there are statistics of these children being even more maladjusted? Put these children up for adoption regardless of what their natural mother or father want? What is your solution to your question?

There's another thought. Progressives seem to like to teach other people's children their values in the public schools even where their values conflict heavily with the values of the chidren's parents. Why is that? Shouldn't schools simply concentrate on teaching reading, writing and arithmetic - especially since they are doing such a lousy job of it, and not brainwash children with the moral values of whomever gets control of the school board?

Now that is just your rightwing brainwashing kicking in. Teachers do teach reading and writing and arithmetic. They also try to teach problem solving because problems come up in their school day that need resolution. They teach tolerance hopefully so there need not be so much problem solving. Surely these things are not either right or left. Or do you think teachers should be teaching the children ... abortion=BAD, invading countries=good?

[cybercoma]

Is it progressive to want Sharia law in Canada?

Oh no...don't get me started. :angry: