Liberals are the Saviors of the Healthcare System

[Dan]

Copied from Monte Solberg's blog.

And what of that little court decision? Most importantly, because the court said it, we can now acknowledge that the current system is broken so badly that some people are dying on waiting lists. We've always know this but unless it is said by a Liberal or a judge it really isn't true.

Secondly the Libs have claimed for twelve years that they are the saviours of healthcare in Canada. Paul Martin claims to have fixed what they had claimed was already a perfect system. In fact he had fixed it for a generation, er a decade. That's what he said.

But the courts have said that Paul is blowing smoke and in Canada that even trumps what the Libs say. Of course when Conservatives point out that the system is all screwed up that makes Conservatives scary. But I digress.

Maybe now we'll have some more honest debate on this whole thing. If we do that maybe Paul will take the time to explain why he himself uses a private clinic.

I love liberal hypocrisy.

[The_Rebirth]

Liberal hypocrisy, or just hypocrisy in general?

[Adelle]

Are you implying that our government, our representatives don't necessarily give us the 'straight goods'? That they may exaggerate or even lie? I mean, if that were the case why would be believe anything a politician said or any promises they might make? If that were the case only seeing would be believing and politicians could only expect to be judged on their actions and not on their words. What kind of political system would that be? (You may note a certain degree of sarcasm.)

[THELIBERAL]

Are you implying that our government, our representatives don't necessarily give us the 'straight goods'?  That they may exaggerate or even lie?  I mean, if that were the case why would be believe anything a politician said or any promises they might make?  If that were the case only seeing would be believing and politicians could only expect to be judged on their actions and not on their words.  What kind of political system would that be? (You may note a certain degree of sarcasm.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask Monte how much the last Conservative government spent on healthcare equipment?

When the Liberals got elected in 1993 we only had 30 MRI machines in this country!

Wonderful eh?

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...3/25/c4564.html

SUPPLY OF IMAGING EQUIPMENT

---------------------------

Canada had a total of 147 MRI scanners in January 2003 compared to 30 in

1993, an increase of nearly 400%. The number of CT scanners rose by about 50%

over the same period, from 216 in 1993 to 326 in January 2003. The country

also had 594 nuclear medicine cameras, 165 angiography suites, 94

catheterization labs, and 14 PET scanners in January 2003.

[willy]

Theliberal, how many PC's did you own in the 70's.

Think about it.

[mcqueen625]

Exerpt from a news article:

Michael Decter, chairman of the Health Council of Canada, said in an interview the problem won't be solved until the country has enough doctors, nurses and technicians to actually deliver the care that's needed.

"The only two ways to get faster access are to have more people delivering care or have faster delivery of care by the same people, i.e. productivity. I expect we need to do both. We need to bolster the work force and we need to find ways to give them the tools to do the job better."

I do know that in my little neck of the woods, Saint John, NB, the Health Region corporation has set about replacing medical personnel with people with business backgrounds, and they are not interested in patient care period. They are far too busy doing time studies, and producing reams of reports that nobody reads. The recommendation coming from these people is that they are over-worked and they need even more of administrative personnel to keep up, with all of the B.S. they are shovelling. The real problem is that they have the ear of government, and when cuts are suggested, those cuts are done from the ranks of those people who intteract directly with the patient's. I would suspect it is much the same in other jurisdictions.

My doctor told me that he was written up by one admissions administrator for failing to discharge his patient's on a timely basis, so that beds could be turned over quicker. He told me it is the first time in his life that he has ever used the "F" word to a female at the hospital. He also told her that when she could claim the distinction of having "M.D." after her name then maybe she could give him advice as to when his patient's should or should not be discharged.

That is a good part of the problem with health care as I see it. We are employing far too many administrative personnel, instead of medical, and theri support personnel. To me administrator is just a nice way to say, "beancounter," and I feel that we should demand that these people be removed from the equation altogether. Sure we need a few, but when their numbers outweigh those of medical personnel, it is time for a thorough house cleaning.

[Dan]

Ask Monte how much the last Conservative government spent on healthcare equipment?

And yet despite all that, it is the Liberal Party that wraps themselves in the flag and proclaims that they alone can save healthcare from the scary, baby-eating conservatives.

so, as Monte said:

...the Libs have claimed for twelve years that they are the saviours of healthcare in Canada. Paul Martin claims to have fixed what they had claimed was already a perfect system. In fact he had fixed it for a generation, er a decade. That's what he said.

But the courts have said that Paul is blowing smoke and in Canada that even trumps what the Libs say.

Paul Martin is blowing smoke about his deific record on health care. He is selling a bill of goods that so many voters in Ontario and so many trolls on this board seem to take as gosple.

All sing praises to Lord Martin and his sacred Red Book!!!!!

[THELIBERAL]

Have you ever seen so many people wanting insurance driven healthcare!!

Some people would love to have our healthcare run by money grabbers!!!

Wonderful!!!

[Technocrat]

Theliberal, how many PC's did you own in the 70's.

Think about it.

My answer... 2... thats right baby i had 2 pcs in 1979... w00t whats my prize?

That is a good part of the problem with health care as I see it. We are employing far too many administrative personnel, instead of medical, and theri support personnel.

I couldn't agree with you more... as a technocrat myself i know how much BS is pushed and created just for the sake of it. Here in London the hospitals have gone through 3 name changes in the past 5 years costing untold millions for no reason other then to justify administrative positions. Here is another one i can't figure out... the Head of the LHSC(London Health Science Center) makes almost HALF A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!! Can someone explain to me WHY in the hell we are paying hospital administrators MORE then the freakin PRIME MINISTER!?!? I have heard the argument that its the going rate for executives... I call bullshit. I am sure you an find people to fill those positions for far less then half of what they are paying them now.

I find it difficult to beleive that a hospital Admin making half a million/year works harder then an ER Nurse working 12 hour shifts and making 10% of what the administrator makes.

That my friends is just plain wrong.... call me a socialist call me a commy but when it comes down to it... I think the pay inequity is almost criminal.

[willy]

Here is another one i can't figure out... the Head of the LHSC(London Health Science Center) makes almost HALF A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!!

Because they run organizations with more than 10,000 employees that have billion dollar budgets and are responsible for the healthcare of hundreds of thousands of people.

You want the best and great leaders are hard to find. You can argue a specific person may not be worth that much but a CEO of a billion dollar company demands a competitive wage.

1 = CEO

3000 = nurses

Supply and demand

RN's do get paid well. Average $60 000.00 plus benefits.

Hey personally I don’t mind having professional managers manage and physicians and nurses treating patients. In my experience doctors don’t make the best business people and we are wasting there unique skills organizing, and administrating.

[Technocrat]

1 = CEO

3000 = nurses

I think this sort of equation spells out exactly why our healtcare system is having problems. Just because someone is in a senior management position does not mean that they are a good manager or worth the money.

Hey personally I don’t mind having professional managers manage and physicians and nurses treating patients. In my experience doctors don’t make the best business people and we are wasting there unique skills organizing, and administrating.

These are NOT private institutions. Hospitals are also NOT businesses, they are supposed to deliver quality health care services not turn a profit. The education you receive from a business degree & an MBA have little true application to a hospital setting (I have both B.COM & MBA). 'Proffesional managers' aka Technocrats (ahh I love my handle) are ill suited for administering specialized services such as health care. With my training I could create thousands of useless documents on operations management and cost reports... none of which would have a direct impact on improving health care delivery to the patients.

IMHO hospitals should be run by a panel of elected Doctors, Nurses, Technicians and other hospital support staff. Each elected from within by the employees and each being represented on an executive board. These board members should have access to some management consultants as to guide them with some of the administration duties. The board would meet on a regular basis and each member would assume a presidential role on a rotating basis. I think this would vastly improve the dynamic between hospital staff and lead to improvements in the delivery of health services. Improvements that would be directly benifitial to patients. Most employees are not given enough credit about their knowledge of their work environment. This is largely to do with the current top down management approach, as it justifies the inflated saleries of managers and devalues important feedback and input from employees. What I propose is by no means a perfect system, I do however beleive that it would lead to improvements in how our health care is deleivered and give the taxpayers a better bang for their buck.

/2 cents.

btw I did not perform a spell or grammar check... this is a political forum not english class so no lame comments plz.

[Argus]

1 = CEO

3000 = nurses

I think this sort of equation spells out exactly why our healtcare system is having problems. Just because someone is in a senior management position does not mean that they are a good manager or worth the money.

I think what the equation spells out is a lack of math skills.

If nurses get $60k per year than a CEO would have to be paid $120,000,000 per year to have the same salary.

The figure quoted was half a million, or about 9 x a nurse's salary. Given the level of responsibility and the competition for people who are reputed to have the skill set to administer a large system that's not terribly unreasonable. With overtime some bus drivers earn over 100k. Gil Parent was given a patronage job as "ambassador to the environment", with no obvious skills (or work), at $250k per year plus expenses.

You find it shocking an administrator of a huge budget with enormous responsibilities would earn twice that?