Some are more equal than others

[charter.rights]

Wrong, try again. Admit it, you'd never heard of these people before I brought them up. I know where they are, because I took the time to follow up their story. And the Huron were wiped out by disease, eh? So that whole massacre in the winter of 1648-49 by the Iroquios never happened? I guess whitey just made that up to make Indians look bad.

It never happened in the way that it was memorialized.

I guess whitey just made that up to make Indians look bad.

Aside from you using racist language, it was the Family Compact that drastically altered history. Many of the old texts come from that era and many of the newer ones rely heavily on their references...which why you are in trouble by relying on texts and not doing the research yourself. I have spent the last 20 years doing research on the Indians of the Great Lakes. The Gros Ventre are just one of the many with similar stories.

And yes the Wendat ("Huron" doesn't refer to the Wendat but was coined by the Jesuits to describe the people they encountered on the north side of Lake Ontario which just happened to be the Mohawk, Seneca and Cayuga) were decimated by the disease that the Jesuits and Sulpicians brought to them. Of those that survived, nearly two thirds went with the Jesuits back to Quebec and the remainder fled into Michigan, being forced out by the increasing excursions of Iroquois hunters into the area. In 1656 the Iroquois struck a treaty called the Two Spoons One Bowl Wampum with the Mississauga from the north to share the land for hunting and fishing. The Iroquois had official control of the land previously occupied by the Wendat and by 1700 had started to repopulate the area. About the same time the Neutrals and the Tobacco were adopted into the Seneca Nation as was customary under the Iroquois Great Law.

You really should stop relying on internet sources for your information. Like the limited resources you have admitted to, the internet is unreliable and dangerously mythical.

Edited January 8, 2012 by charter.rights

[prairiechickin]

It never happened in the way that it was memorialized.

You really should stop relying on internet sources for your information. Like the limited resources you have admitted to, the internet is unreliable and dangerously mythical.

My 'internet source' on the Gros Ventre is Olive Dickason's "A Historical Reconstruction for the Northwest Plains" in R.Douglas Francis and Howard Palmers's The Prairie West: Historical Readings". Your source seems to be your imagination. And yes, I know what the inside of an Archives looks like, but Native hisotory isn't my field. I rely on standard published works when working out of my field. You really must publish soon, since so much of what you are telling me contradicts the standard version of Canadian history that I was taught back in my undergrad. Oh, but wait, the Family Compact has reached its long dead fingers from the 19th century grave and forced modern historians to write false history. Who knew Bruce Trigger was on the take.

[Guest Peeves]

"You really should stop relying on internet sources for your information. Like the limited resources you have admitted to, the internet is unreliable and dangerously mythical."

We should rather of course rely solely on that provided by a poster here with no perceived bias? Got it.

[charter.rights]

My 'internet source' on the Gros Ventre is Olive Dickason's "A Historical Reconstruction for the Northwest Plains" in R.Douglas Francis and Howard Palmers's The Prairie West: Historical Readings". Your source seems to be your imagination. And yes, I know what the inside of an Archives looks like, but Native hisotory isn't my field. I rely on standard published works when working out of my field. You really must publish soon, since so much of what you are telling me contradicts the standard version of Canadian history that I was taught back in my undergrad. Oh, but wait, the Family Compact has reached its long dead fingers from the 19th century grave and forced modern historians to write false history. Who knew Bruce Trigger was on the take.

You shouldn't 1. be invoking "I'm a historian" schtick if you are outside your level of expertise, and 2. You shouldn't be arguing with a historian, whose expertise is in the subject being discussed.

Edited January 9, 2012 by charter.rights

[cybercoma]

My suspicion is that prairiechickin is either a university student working on that history degree or someone that had a history major at the undergraduate level, but went on to do a BEd and is teaching high school students.

[prairiechickin]

You shouldn't 1. be invoking "I'm a historian" schtick if you are outside your level of expertise, and 2. You shouldn't be arguing with a historian, whose expertise is in the subject being discussed.

I'm not sure how we'd ever resolve this, but I've only been a half dozen things in my life, and one of them is a historian. Never made any money at it, but it was worth doing. One of the few delights I get out of this poorly-paid gig is coming on chat rooms and knocking the bullshit air out of balloons like yours.

You think I'm just some redneck asshole who delights in tormenting Indians. I am a redneck asshole, but I only torment Indian assholes like you. I spent this Sunday morning teaching my Cree God-daughter's husband how to tape drywall, a skill I developed years back when I was a working guy. We're finishing their basement, and I'm happy to help. Unlike most Canadians, I grew up around Indians and harbour no guilt regarding their outcome. Most of my Indian friends are too busy working jobs and paying off ortgages to pay much attention to centuries-old treaties and waiting for the ship to come in. They get some sweet deals under Treaty Four, and good for them, and I get to go to the pow-wows unmolested. I've been pall bearer at their funerals, they've danced with me at their weddings. I hunt and fish with Indians every year -- they even buy whitey licences to hunt with me.

So trying this white-guy guilt schict doesn't work with me. I haven't said anything on this forum that I haven't said to their Cree Faces hile we're chopping up moose. We have our discussions, but they never insult my credentials because they know how hard and how long I was gone chasing the history thing. They respect my knowledge, and I respect theirs, and while we do disagree sometimes, it never ever descends into belittling each other.

Before you claim to speak for all Indians in Canada, you should meet my friends. While they would agree with you on some points regarding treaties, they have more immediate concerns regarding reserve mismanagement and funding for education.

[charter.rights]

I'm not sure how we'd ever resolve this, but I've only been a half dozen things in my life, and one of them is a historian. Never made any money at it, but it was worth doing. One of the few delights I get out of this poorly-paid gig is coming on chat rooms and knocking the bullshit air out of balloons like yours.

You think I'm just some redneck asshole who delights in tormenting Indians. I am a redneck asshole, but I only torment Indian assholes like you. I spent this Sunday morning teaching my Cree God-daughter's husband how to tape drywall, a skill I developed years back when I was a working guy. We're finishing their basement, and I'm happy to help. Unlike most Canadians, I grew up around Indians and harbour no guilt regarding their outcome. Most of my Indian friends are too busy working jobs and paying off ortgages to pay much attention to centuries-old treaties and waiting for the ship to come in. They get some sweet deals under Treaty Four, and good for them, and I get to go to the pow-wows unmolested. I've been pall bearer at their funerals, they've danced with me at their weddings. I hunt and fish with Indians every year -- they even buy whitey licences to hunt with me.

So trying this white-guy guilt schict doesn't work with me. I haven't said anything on this forum that I haven't said to their Cree Faces hile we're chopping up moose. We have our discussions, but they never insult my credentials because they know how hard and how long I was gone chasing the history thing. They respect my knowledge, and I respect theirs, and while we do disagree sometimes, it never ever descends into belittling each other.

Before you claim to speak for all Indians in Canada, you should meet my friends. While they would agree with you on some points regarding treaties, they have more immediate concerns regarding reserve mismanagement and funding for education.

Spare us the "Noble Indian's Friend" routine. It is old and used by racists to try to intimate they are not bigots or racists..

And obviously since this is YOUR contest you have to stay up late at night to try to invent arguments to counter my facts.

Not only I am historian but I have been certified in many court cases as a professional witness and have an extensive knowledge of First Nation history and legal history. In my 20 years of research (REAL research) I have exposed the inconsistencies of British written history and the deliberate attempts during the Family Compact era at changing history and legal documents to make lazy historians like you think they have it all down. I'm here to tell you, you don't and you have been duped.

Now run along and play with the children. You act like one, you might as well go play with them. You would be much more useful there than here.

[Guest Peeves]

Spare us the "Noble Indian's Friend" routine. It is old and used by racists to try to intimate they are not bigots or racists..

And obviously since this is YOUR contest you have to stay up late at night to try to invent arguments to counter my facts.

Not only I am historian but I have been certified in many court cases as a professional witness and have an extensive knowledge of First Nation history and legal history. In my 20 years of research (REAL research) I have exposed the inconsistencies of British written history and the deliberate attempts during the Family Compact era at changing history and legal documents to make lazy historians like you think they have it all down. I'm here to tell you, you don't and you have been duped.

Now run along and play with the children. You act like one, you might as well go play with them. You would be much more useful there than here.

He's useful as a source and opinion. You're useful as a biased opinion. Both are welcome but the one that demeans or denigrates loses credibility and you have. Still your views are welcome, and are open to contradiction and differing opinion, unless you are a version of Kijemnido, Kitch Manitou, or Nota.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Peeves

[charter.rights]

He's useful as a source and opinion. Your useful as a biased opinion. Both are welcome but the one that demeans or denigrates loses credibility and you have. Still your views are welcome, and are open to contradiction and differing opinion, unless you are a version of Kijemnido, Kitch Manitou, or Nota.

The one who simply trolls and doesn't add to the discussion is the one that loses.

You left out Shonkwaia'tison...

Edited January 9, 2012 by charter.rights

[Guest Peeves]

I'll say 3 hail Mary's and burn some (sweet) grass.

[Guest Peeves]

The one who simply trolls and doesn't add to the discussion is the one that loses.

You left out Shonkwaia'tison...

Truncated for brevity in response to following ad hominem insults.

"Spare us the "Noble Indian's Friend" routine. It is old and used by racists to try to intimate they are not bigots or racists..

Now run along and play with the children. You act like one, you might as well go play with them. You would be much more useful there than here."

Let me ask in general if anyone really thinks the above schoolyard nya nyas' are going to encourage a response or, if it furthers the topic.

I tire of bellicose posters that seem to think only their opinion is of value and that they are superior beings.

Obvious to the post subject, some here feel they really are more equal than others. I tend to dismiss such as less than credible.

I maintain, as I have from the start, that First Nations are by any standard allowed more latitude in sentencing, in law breaking - criminal activity and anarchy.

Illegal selling of tobacco, riots that destroy public property, assaults on citizens, invading private property, and that's only in Caledonia.