UN independent panel rules Israel blockade of Gaza illegal

[bud]

As I've already explained, the UN didn't create Israel - the Jewish people did.

As far as the ICJ? Who cares? It's not a real "court", it's just a bunch of politicians and academics who play dress-up and pretend to be lawyers and judges.

how you feel is irrelevant.

israel is a signatory to the geneva convention and is a member of UN.

if they don't care to follow international law, then they should get out of the UN.

this is the problem with you fanatics. israel is never wrong in your eyes. israel is above all the rules. you sit there and complain about palestinian heritage when israel itself is less than a 100 years old, made up of people who have migrated from around the world to the middle east, with most of them from europe.

you set two different rules and standards. the world doesn't care if you think you should be treated differently or if you feel you're above the law. the tragedy of the holocaust has been milked long enough. the time has come for the palestinians to stop being the victims of what the europeans did to the jews and it's time for the palestinians to have the rights every other person deserves.

I've already explained how the very concept of "rights" granted by the Geneva Conventions makes no sense in this conflict, as one party hasn't agreed to play by these "rules".

what do you mean it makes no sense? who are you to tell a group of people that they don't have basic rights?

You cannot force compliance among a multi-party conflict on one party. Nobody has the right to force obligations (because all "rights" come with obligations to be upheld by certain people and institutions) to protect certain groups of people who have chosen not to uphold the agreement on their side of the water.

all parties are obligated to respect the rights and other nations are obligated to make sure that nations and groups do as well. this is one of the reasons why the UN was created after one of the worst tragedies in the past 200 years.

looking at hamas' history, they have slowly improved their tactics. they resemble the jewish terrorist organizations who committed acts of terrorism before israel was created. begin started out as the leader or a terrorist organization and went on to become the prime minister of israel.

[Guest Peeves]

both you and wild bill need to improve your reading comprehension and do a little more research before pressing reply.

there have been 3 reports with the UN on its title:

- one from UNHRC that found the blockade illegal

- one so-called the palmer report that found the blockade legal

- this latest one from an UN independent panel that found the blockade illegal

there are other organizations like the international red cross who have also found the blockade to be illegal.

I say on the preponderance of authoritative opinion it was legal, case closed.

[Bob]

how you feel is irrelevant.

israel is a signatory to the geneva convention and is a member of UN.

if they don't care to follow international law, then they should get out of the UN.

this is the problem with you fanatics. israel is never wrong in your eyes. israel is above all the rules. you sit there and complain about palestinian heritage when israel itself is less than a 100 years old, made up of people who have migrated from around the world to the middle east, with most of them from europe.

you set two different rules and standards. the world doesn't care if you think you should be treated differently or if you feel you're above the law. the tragedy of the holocaust has been milked long enough. the time has come for the palestinians to stop being the victims of what the europeans did to the jews and it's time for the palestinians to have the rights every other person deserves.

what do you mean it makes no sense? who are you to tell a group of people that they don't have basic rights?

all parties are obligated to respect the rights and other nations are obligated to make sure that nations and groups do as well. this is one of the reasons why the UN was created after one of the worst tragedies in the past 200 years.

looking at hamas' history, they have slowly improved their tactics. they resemble the jewish terrorist organizations who committed acts of terrorism before israel was created. begin started out as the leader or a terrorist organization and went on to become the prime minister of israel.

Not that it matters, but most Jews in Israel are not from Europe. It's an irrelevant point, and a transparent racist attack from you. If all Jews were from Utah in recent history it wouldn't make a lick of a difference. We are the indigenous people of this land, dispossessed for a long time, but thankfully now we have reclaimed what is exclusively ours.

You're ignoring the basic philosophy here. Nobody has any of these "rights" that you proclaim as an irrelevant third-party grandstanding from your keyboard. Neither you nor the UN have any authority whatsoever to force the obligations of preserving these "basic rights" onto us. With every right comes an obligation, and third-parties such as yourself or the UN are in no position to dictate to involved stakeholders their responsibility for carrying out the obligations necessary for protecting these "basic rights".

This is a multi-party conflict, and only one side has agreed to the "rules" laid out in Geneva Conventions. You cannot have an arrangement where only one side is playing by the rules. Considering that the Arabs/Muslims do no adhere to the Geneva Conventions (or most "rights" laid out in the UNDHR), they cannot expect to be protected the provisions therein when they are captured. Treaties and agreements are a two-way street.

The Geneva Conventions are only relevant insofar as Israel adheres to them. It's a one-sided agreement, with terrorists sitting in Israeli jails given options to earn university degrees while the "Palestinians" torture and murder anyone they can get their hands on. Gilad Shalit being the prime contemporary example.

[Bob]

I love how bud throws around terms like "illegal" as if anyone in here gives a damn. The politics of the UN and its subsidiaries are meaningless. They have no credibility and and no authority to determine the "legality" of anything.

[Bob]

the time has come for the palestinians to stop being the victims of what the europeans did to the jews and it's time for the palestinians to have the rights every other person deserves.

Yes, because the "Palestinians" were completely detached from the Holocaust, right? I mean, the "Palestinians", being as virtuous as they are, probably even OPPOSED Hitler's mass murder of Jews, right? Oh wait...

[Argus]

You guys are too stupid and jaded for this subject. Youre as bad as the Jews and Palestinians over in that god forsaken dirt farm.

We disagree with you so we're stupid? Sorry, bub, but the UN's "Human Rights" group has so thoroughly and completely lost any semblance of neutrality, integrity or honesty that nothing that comes out of there is of any value on any subject. Surely anyone who isn't "stupid" ought to know that.

[dre]

We disagree with you so we're stupid? Sorry, bub, but the UN's "Human Rights" group has so thoroughly and completely lost any semblance of neutrality, integrity or honesty that nothing that comes out of there is of any value on any subject. Surely anyone who isn't "stupid" ought to know that.

This retarded conversation has played out so many times its not funny with the same lame bullshit on both sides. Immediately it becomes an argument over the validity of the UN. Not one iota of real substance. For example... the article claims that the blockade is cutting people off from much of their fishing grounds. Dunno if thats true or not but it was something that actually could have been discussed. No mention of it. Just the same dumb bullshit thats in every other CONFLICT:DIRTFARM HOLYLAND thread.

"The UN sucks dude!".

"Nuh uh! Does not!".

"Its anti semetic!".

"Nuh uh".

These are some the dumbest threads ever. If the Israelis and Palestinians are as obtuse as you clowns no wonder CONFLICT:DIRTFARM has lasted 60 years.

[Bob]

This retarded conversation has played out so many times its not funny with the same lame bullshit on both sides. Immediately it becomes an argument over the validity of the UN. Not one iota of real substance. For example... the article claims that the blockade is cutting people off from much of their fishing grounds. Dunno if thats true or not but it was something that actually could have been discussed. No mention of it. Just the same dumb bullshit thats in every other CONFLICT:DIRTFARM HOLYLAND thread.

"The UN sucks dude!".

"Nuh uh! Does not!".

"Its anti semetic!".

"Nuh uh".

These are some the dumbest threads ever. If the Israelis and Palestinians are as obtuse as you clowns no wonder CONFLICT:DIRTFARM has lasted 60 years.

All other issues are secondary to Israeli security. That includes any possibility that Gazan fishing has been negatively impacted by the blockade. Our lives are more important than their fish. And if they want the fish that bad, all they need to do is stop the terrorism and arms smuggling. Simple.

Again, every other consideration takes a back seat to our security, including their security.

[bud]

You're ignoring the basic philosophy here. Nobody has any of these "rights" that you proclaim as an irrelevant third-party grandstanding from your keyboard. Neither you nor the UN have any authority whatsoever to force the obligations of preserving these "basic rights" onto us. With every right comes an obligation, and third-parties such as yourself or the UN are in no position to dictate to involved stakeholders their responsibility for carrying out the obligations necessary for protecting these "basic rights".

it is ironic that many of you fanatical zionists echo the nazi regime's explanation for their government's acts of injustice. then proclaim that people around the world should look away and keep to themselves and pretend a militarily dominating group is not treating another group as subhumans who do not deserve respect and to live in freedom.

[bud]

This retarded conversation has played out so many times its not funny with the same lame bullshit on both sides. Immediately it becomes an argument over the validity of the UN. Not one iota of real substance. For example... the article claims that the blockade is cutting people off from much of their fishing grounds. Dunno if thats true or not but it was something that actually could have been discussed. No mention of it. Just the same dumb bullshit thats in every other CONFLICT:DIRTFARM HOLYLAND thread.

"The UN sucks dude!".

"Nuh uh! Does not!".

"Its anti semetic!".

"Nuh uh".

These are some the dumbest threads ever. If the Israelis and Palestinians are as obtuse as you clowns no wonder CONFLICT:DIRTFARM has lasted 60 years.

why don't you bring in the substance you believe the thread lacks instead of a rue-esque tantrum.

[Rue]

it is ironic that many of you fanatical zionists echo the nazi regime's explanation for their government's acts of injustice.

It is not ironic you come on this forum and troll and engage in holocaust inversion and engage in the same

negative stereotypes trying to incite hatred about Jews, Israelis, holocaust survivors and supporters of Israel's

right to exist.

Its interesting because I would be the first told not to insult you personally but your gutter comments

are permitted as political debate on this forum rendering you and the forum a joke.

[GostHacked]

It is not ironic you come on this forum and troll and engage in holocaust inversion and engage in the same

negative stereotypes trying to incite hatred about Jews, Israelis, holocaust survivors and supporters of Israel's

right to exist.

Its interesting because I would be the first told not to insult you personally but your gutter comments

are permitted as political debate on this forum rendering you and the forum a joke.

Let me introduce you to a self proclaimed genocidal zionist jew on this board named... BOB !!!!

Edited September 15, 2011 by GostHacked

[bud]

It is not ironic you come on this forum and troll and engage in holocaust inversion and engage in the same

negative stereotypes trying to incite hatred about Jews, Israelis, holocaust survivors and supporters of Israel's

right to exist.

Its interesting because I would be the first told not to insult you personally but your gutter comments

are permitted as political debate on this forum rendering you and the forum a joke.

palestinians' bid for a state does not request that israel would be wiped off the map. i'm not sure why you continuously cry about 'israel's right to exist' whenever someone promotes a palestinian state. the palestinian state would be alongside an israeli state.

i urge you to read my comments a few times before pressing reply and going into another tantrum and false accusations. good luck.

Edited September 16, 2011 by bud

[Rue]

Let me introduce you to a self proclaimed genocidal zionist jew on this board named... BOB !!!!

And your point? Did you even have one?

Bud is justified in his extremism because you think Bob is?

That's your point?

Right.

[Rue]

palestinians' bid for a state does not request that israel would be wiped off the map. i'm not sure why you continuously cry about 'israel's right to exist' whenever someone promotes a palestinian state. the palestinian state would be alongside an israeli state.

i urge you to read my comments a few times before pressing reply and going into another tantrum and false accusations. good luck.

Get this straight. When you come on this board as you do and engage in holocaust inversion its there for anyone to read and it becomes public domain as much as you would like to deny it.

What you do time and time again is engage in expressing hateful opinions. You use references that slur all holocaust survivors, Jews and supporters of Israel as well as Israelis and its government of being Nazis.

You throw out allegations as to the motives of Israeli state action with zero proof.

You throw out subjective opinions which you then suggest are facts.

You have yet in one post to provide any reference or corroborated evidence for your opinions.

What you do is come on this forum to Jew bait and Israel bait, no more, no less.

Now you want to call me out as having a tantrum be my guest. If having a tantrum means calling you out and challenging you and calling you a troll and hate monger who has sullied this forum and lowered its level of discussion on the Middle East then you bet I am having a tantrum.

You are someone whose sole contribution on this board has been to incite hatred against Israel. Your words speak for themselves as much as you try deny them or their content.

Unlike you by the way, I don't deny one word I have stated on this forum.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Rue

[GostHacked]

And your point? Did you even have one?

Yes, I have a point. Bud is extreme to you, as Bob is extreme to me. Both of them are extreme. But Bud is advocating for a Palestinian state for them to call their own. Bob wants to displace them all and take over all the land the Palestinians currently occupy. That is as dangerous as Hamas or any terror group making the statement of wiping Israel off the map.

Bud is justified in his extremism because you think Bob is?

Sure why not. Since neither the Palestinians and the Isrealis wants to admit they have both screwed up so bad to bring us to this point, Bob and Bud both represent the continuing struggle. No compromise has been made at all, no progress. The first time I heard about this Israel/Palestine was in the early 80's, when I was a kid. I did not understand it then, and I seem to understand it less now. Because this conflict IS STILL GOING ON.

"Conflict - Dirt Farm" has been tossed around a few times, and well, seems to be the best term so far.

That's your point?

I have lots of points. But people on either side don't want to listen to anyone else.

I don't support Israel so obviously .. I support terrorism. Anyone with some basic intelligence knows that this is a farce and a point trotted out by those who cannot piece together a proper argument. How many more threads do we really need to show that fact?

I do see one difference between Bud and Bob. Bob clearly advocates for genocide and removal of the Palestinians from the Occupied Territories. Bud clearly advocates for a Palestinian state that lives side by side with Israel. Bud has his criticism of Israel, some of which I have as well. Bud also seems to recognize Israel's right to exist, but Bob won't extend that back.

[Bob]

What's "extreme" is for irrelevant outsiders with no connection to this conflict to be pretending they understand it and advocating for more of the same policies - waiting for some koombaya moment that will never happen. And while we wait, more Jewish blood is spilled by the Islamic terrorists. Almost a million Jewish people were forcefully removed from their homes in Muslim-majority countries following the reestablishment of Israel. It's time to return to the favour. Repatriate these "Palestinians" to their real homes. We cannot live with them. Coexistence is clearly not happening. The Arabs/Muslims want all of this land and the destruction of Israel as the Jewish homeland. I am not speaking about a minority of the "Palestinians", either. It an OVERWHELMING majority, both in Israel and in the territories. Look at the political positions of Hamas, Fatah, or even Shas or other "pro-Palestinian" political parties in Israel. Or look at the political positions of "pro-Palestinian" NGOs in Israel and abroad. Peace is impossible with these people. They ALL hate Israel. So, as a minimum, the vast majority of "Palestinians" should have their citizenship revoked in Israel, and ideally, most of them removed and sent to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, or elsewhere. Anywhere but here. Then we'll have much more security. We've seen about over a century of violence from them in this land, long before 1967 and long before 1948. And prior to that, centuries of oppression with living under Muslim-majority rule as second-class citizens. When you've got a terrible track record for centuries, you've lost all trust.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Bob

[dre]

Yes, I have a point. Bud is extreme to you, as Bob is extreme to me.

Bud is definately obsessed with his role as an advocate for the palestinians, but I dont normally hear him saying things that are what I would call "extreme".

Bob on the other hand is an unabashed racist zealot that openly describe arabs as an "inferior race", and routinely calls for ethnic cleansing.

[dre]

why don't you bring in the substance you believe the thread lacks instead of a rue-esque tantrum.

I tried to. I thought that the allegation that the siege blocks ordinary palestinians from using a lot of their own resources (like fishing waters) might be worthy of discussion and I mentioned it. But that kind of thing goes nowhere here.

You can pretty much expect the same mindless crap thats haunted the first few pages.

Westerners debating the ME conflict accounts for most of the dumbest posts on the internet in history. They generally dont have a clue, and tend to be nothing but glorified sports fans who pick a side, then attack every entity or source of information thats not favorable to their view.

[Bob]

Bud is definately obsessed with his role as an advocate for the palestinians, but I dont normally hear him saying things that are what I would call "extreme".

Bob on the other hand is an unabashed racist zealot that openly describe arabs as an "inferior race", and routinely calls for ethnic cleansing.

What I say is that Arabic/Islamic society is an inferior culture. Which it is. They don't accept social practises and systems that are essential to enjoying the things we take for granted - primarily freedom. There is nothing inherently inferior in an Arab person because of their genetics, but their cultures and societies are certainly inferior. Anyone who can't recognize that is either lying or stupid, or disgustingly committed to be politically correct. Which reason is it for you?

Bear in mind, folks, that dre explicitly stated that he would be entirely comfortable living in a Canada that was exclusively populated by religious Muslims. When asked if he'd be alright with every woman in Canada wearing a hijab (and everything that goes along with that, primarily all of these women being religious Muslims!), he said it would be no problem for him. Consider that we have so many people, this oblivious and sickeningly committed to political correctness, living among us.

[dre]

What I say is that Arabic/Islamic society is an inferior culture. Which it is. They don't accept social practises and systems that are essential to enjoying the things we take for granted - primarily freedom. There is nothing inherently inferior in an Arab person because of their genetics, but their cultures and societies are certainly inferior. Anyone who can't recognize that is either lying or stupid, or disgustingly committed to be politically correct. Which reason is it for you?

Bear in mind, folks, that dre explicitly stated that he would be entirely comfortable living in a Canada that was exclusively populated by religious Muslims. When asked if he'd be alright with every woman in Canada wearing a hijab (and everything that goes along with that, primarily all of these women being religious Muslims!), he said it would be no problem for him. Consider that we have so many people, this oblivious and sickeningly committed to political correctness, living among us.

Bear in mind, folks, that dre explicitly stated that he would be entirely comfortable living in a Canada that was exclusively populated by religious Muslims. When asked if he'd be alright with every woman in Canada wearing a hijab (and everything that goes along with that, primarily all of these women being religious Muslims!), he said it would be no problem for him. Consider that we have so many people, this oblivious and sickeningly committed to political correctness, living among us.

Well... I guess we can add LIAR to the list of other things you are such as racist, bigot, zealot, and extremist.

The ONLY thing I said is that women should wear whatever they want. Its a non-issue for me.

[Bob]

Well... I guess we can add LIAR to the list of other things you are such as racist, bigot, zealot, and extremist.

The ONLY thing I said is that women should wear whatever they want. Its a non-issue for me.

Women should be allowed to wear whatever they want. I completely agree with that. The question I asked you, however, to which you answered in the affirmative, is whether you'd be comfortable living in a Canada where 100% of women wear hijabs. Did I really need to explain what was implied with that question? Since you don't seem to grasp the point I was getting at, let me spell it out for you: if you are willing to live in a Canada where 100% of women are wearing hijabs, then you are willing to accept a Canada that is entirely composed of religious Muslims.

What, did you think my hypothetical example was suggesting secular blonde and blue-eyed Christian girls wearing hijabs as some sort of fad? Did I really need to explain that only religious Muslims women wear a hijab? That's the reason I asked the question, and you and other politically correct and suicidal MLW members nodded like fools as if there's nothing wrong with an Islamic Canada. It is unreal, but at the same time unsurprising giving Canada's hardcore leftist (and ignorant and myopic) political culture.

[Guest American Woman]

Problem is, not all women who wear a hijab do so because they want to.

[Bob]

Problem is, not all women who wear a hijab do so because they want to.

Of course, but I'm trying to keep things simple. Conversely, in the hypothetical Canada where all women are wearing hijabs (which necessarily means they are all religious Muslims), there will be an equal amount of Muslim men as their counterweight.... effectively transforming Canadian society into a religious Islamic society. Sick, sick, sick.

And dre, GostHacked, and Peter F are all totally fine with that.

[Argus]

The ONLY thing I said is that women should wear whatever they want. Its a non-issue for me.

Well, it's an issue for me. I advocate mandatory wearing of plastic miniskirts and tube tops within certain age ranges.

Oh, and mandatory dieting too.