Natives have right too says Canada

[Popeye]

Let's try this, the original link from the first post that started this thread.

http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/en/drip.html

Now then, how about we talk about "Canada" removing itself from the tripod of "don't wanna do this" on the UN list and leaving Australia and the United States in their dust?

Edited December 2, 2010 by Popeye

[AngusThermopyle]

You Miss, are exactly what I was talking about. I'm not sure why you would think that I hadn't read all 13 pages before I commented, but keep your panties on honey.

Oh great, yet another Zealot who prefers feeble insults over reasoned debate and inquiry. Another one to skim over and ignore as they appear to have nothing of substance to say.

[Wild Bill]

Oh great, yet another Zealot who prefers feeble insults over reasoned debate and inquiry. Another one to skim over and ignore as they appear to have nothing of substance to say.

Yeah, that's what I thought too, Angus. Different name but the same old crap!

Like a TV set with nothing but CSI spinoffs...

[Shwa]

Yeah, that's what I thought too, Angus. Different name but the same old crap!

Like a TV set with nothing but CSI spinoffs...

All the while you give quarter to the garbage spun by Saipan as 'reasoned debate and inquiry.'

Gimme a break.

Let me guess: after all this time you still think the Douglas Estates fiasco was caused by thugs right?

[charter.rights]

All the while you give quarter to the garbage spun by Saipan as 'reasoned debate and inquiry.'

Gimme a break.

Let me guess: after all this time you still think the Douglas Estates fiasco was caused by thugs right?

The bigots will never change their mind even after being proven the fools they are.

[AngusThermopyle]

The bigots will never change their mind even after being proven the fools they are.

So you are in effect stating that recognizing and disdaning a feeble insult makes one a fool and bigot?

I would suggest that quite the opposite is the truth and your knee jerk response simply paints you in the light that you wish to cast upon others.

By the way, have you come up with an example of a native only commercial hunting license yet? Your reference to licensed hunting and fishing camps is invalid as I'm sure you are aware, so, lets see a valid example. I have continued searching since then and have still not found one instance of such a document.

Edited December 2, 2010 by AngusThermopyle

[charter.rights]

So you are in effect stating that recognizing and disdaning a feeble insult makes one a fool and bigot?

I would suggest that quite the opposite is the truth and your knee jerk response simply paints you in the light that you wish to cast upon others.

By the way, have you come up with an example of a native only commercial hunting license yet? Your reference to licensed hunting and fishing camps is invalid as I'm sure you are aware, so, lets see a valid example. I have continued searching since then and have still not found one instance of such a document.

Incorrect. Straw man arguments like yours are typical of those who prefer to deflect identification of their weaknesses. The real problem is that guys like Saipan are so fixated on their hate, that when facts are presented them simply ignore them and go on repeating the same crap. That is the real sign of a bigot.

Edited December 2, 2010 by charter.rights

[AngusThermopyle]

The real problem is that guys like Saipan are so fixated on their hate, that when facts are presented them simply ignore them and go on repeating the same crap.

I see, I must have misunderstood you. It was my belief that you were calling myself and Bill bigots and fools because we object to insults being used in lieu of debate and reason. Which begs the question for the sake of clarity, were you?

Anyway, as I said, I have yet to find an example of a commercial license, perhaps you could.

[charter.rights]

I see, I must have misunderstood you. It was my belief that you were calling myself and Bill bigots and fools because we object to insults being used in lieu of debate and reason. Which begs the question for the sake of clarity, were you?

Anyway, as I said, I have yet to find an example of a commercial license, perhaps you could.

Not at all. I believe Shwa was pointing out that you are supporting a bigot.

I already did. Hunting lodges support commercial hunting even though licencing is individual. The same applies to the vast fishing lodge network in Canada.

On another front since natives are entitled to earn a moderate living off their hunting and fishing, they can sell some of the harvest (and they do).

Edited December 2, 2010 by charter.rights

[AngusThermopyle]

Not at all. I believe Shwa was pointing out that you are supporting a bigot.

I already did. Hunting lodges support commercial hunting even though licencing is individual. The same applies to the vast fishing lodge network in Canada.

On another front since natives are entitled to earn a moderate living off their hunting and fishing, they can sell some of the harvest (and they do).

So I am supporting a bigot by objecting to insults used in lieu of debate? Okay, if you say so.

Licensed lodges and commercial hunting licenses are two entirely different things. A commercial license for example is one required for the seal hunt. A licensed lodge does not constitute a commercial hunting license. For instance, both Native and non Natives can apply for and obtain a license to run a lodge or camp. This is not exclusive to Natives only.

From your non answer and inabillity to find that which does not exist I take it that once again, as many times before you were simply fabricating "facts". Really Charter, for one who claims to be so intelligent I would think you would have learned by now and decided that honesty is the best policy. You constantly shoot yourself in the foot and never seem to learn from the experience.

[charter.rights]

So I am supporting a bigot by objecting to insults used in lieu of debate? Okay, if you say so.

Licensed lodges and commercial hunting licenses are two entirely different things. A commercial license for example is one required for the seal hunt. A licensed lodge does not constitute a commercial hunting license. For instance, both Native and non Natives can apply for and obtain a license to run a lodge or camp. This is not exclusive to Natives only.

From your non answer and inabillity to find that which does not exist I take it that once again, as many times before you were simply fabricating "facts". Really Charter, for one who claims to be so intelligent I would think you would have learned by now and decided that honesty is the best policy. You constantly shoot yourself in the foot and never seem to learn from the experience.

Trapping licences are "commercial licences" and I pointed that out earlier. But I never said that hunting lodges constituted a licence. What I said is that lodges are a commercial hunting industry. You do need to keep up.

Edited December 2, 2010 by charter.rights

[AngusThermopyle]

So how does one prove he's a Sustenance Hunter?

He holds a licence i.e. trapping, hunting.

Actually this is what you posted earlier, nothing about commercial trapping. Having had quite a few friends who have trapped over the years I can assure you that this is not a Native only commercial license but open to any who qualify. Further to that the regulations governing trapping apply equaly to both Native and non Native trappers. Would you like me to post the Government regs for you?

But I never said that hunting lodges constituted a licence. What I said is that lodges are a commercial hunting industry.

Actually what you did was post a few links to lodges in response to my request for an example of a commercial hunting licence. The implication being that these constituted proof of commercial hunting licences. If you wish we can go back even further to the specific request I made for a Native only commercial hunting licence.

So far you have failed on all counts and your floundering around serves only to dig the hole deeper.

So, your turn, dance little puppet dance.

Oh, and by the way,

You do need to keep up.

[Saipan]

What I said is that lodges are a commercial hunting industry.

No, they are not allowed to hunt at all. They can only help hunters, same as any Motel, Canadina Tire store, Home Hardware, or as Guides etc.

[charter.rights]

Actually this is what you posted earlier, nothing about commercial trapping. Having had quite a few friends who have trapped over the years I can assure you that this is not a Native only commercial license but open to any who qualify. Further to that the regulations governing trapping apply equaly to both Native and non Native trappers. Would you like me to post the Government regs for you?

You do understand that provincial law does not over ride aboriginal rights, regardless if it is provincial regulation or legislation? As I pointed out earlier the Supreme Court of Canad already struck it down, and unless the entire hunting season or fishing resources is completely shut down first for all non-natives, there is no justification to interfere with an aboriginal hunting or fishing rights for conservation purposes.

Actually what you did was post a few links to lodges in response to my request for an example of a commercial hunting licence. The implication being that these constituted proof of commercial hunting licences. If you wish we can go back even further to the specific request I made for a Native only commercial hunting licence.

Here is another:

"

We have the sole commercial hunting rights to a very large bear hunting area

immediately surrounding our Perrault Falls lodge location, with a strong bear population to draw from."

So far you have failed on all counts and your floundering around serves only to dig the hole deeper.

Not at all. I have provided the examples of commercial hunting and fishing rights are are proof they exist, as well as SCoC cases confirming it. All you have, once again is your opinion, with no substance and only a straw man argument to back it up.

So, your turn, dance little puppet dance.

Oh, and by the way,

And the great defender of bigotry and insult resorts to his own form of ad hominem. A feeble attempt at trying to show your inferiority in the discussion.

[Saipan]

unless the entire hunting season or fishing resources is completely shut down first for all non-natives, there is no justification to interfere with an aboriginal hunting or fishing rights for conservation purposes.

Why do you think that? Why eating a deer, for example, should be reserved for one race? Not even old South Africa had that.

I have provided the examples of commercial hunting and fishing rights are are proof they exist

There's commercial fishing, but NO commercial hunting. With exception of Ontario Liberal government allowing slaughter of black bears (where there are too many) by ministry (sometimes using OPP with handguns(!) instead opening spring bear hunting season. Something to do with McGuinty's infinite wisdom and city "environmetalists" pressure.

[AngusThermopyle]

There's commercial fishing, but NO commercial hunting.

Based on my own experiences and involvement with Ducks Unlimited I have to agree with you Saipan. Further to that after researching the subject I have found zero evidence to support the concept of commercial hunting of any kind. I may have missed something but I don't think I have.

I even went so far as to phone an aquaintance involved in the management of Ducks Unlimited in Winnipeg and ask him about this and he simply reinforced my findings, or lack thereoff.

[Shwa]

Why do you think that? Why eating a deer, for example, should be reserved for one race? Not even old South Africa had that.

You can deermeat in the grocery store or get a hunting license and go bag your own.

There's commercial fishing, but NO commercial hunting. With exception of Ontario Liberal government allowing slaughter of black bears (where there are too many) by ministry (sometimes using OPP with handguns(!) instead opening spring bear hunting season. Something to do with McGuinty's infinite wisdom and city "environmetalists" pressure.

There is commercial seal hunting on the East Coast and I believe Aboriginal commercial hunting is subsumed under treaty rights.

[Saipan]

You can deermeat in the grocery store

Illegal here.

or get a hunting license and go bag your own.

YES, Very limited, as said.

There is commercial seal hunting on the East Coast and I believe Aboriginal commercial hunting is subsumed under treaty rights.

YES, completely forgot about the seals

[Shwa]

Illegal here.

Then make friends with a hunter and offer to buy some country food. Your neighbour for example...

YES, Very limited, as said.

Not my problem. Eat other meat too.

[AngusThermopyle]

There is commercial seal hunting on the East Coast and I believe Aboriginal commercial hunting is subsumed under treaty rights.

I mentioned the seal hunt earlier in this thread. As for Aboriginal rights, well I don't know. So far I haven't been able to find anything specific after looking and as mentioned earlier the aquaintance I have at DU couldn't shed any light on it either.

[Saipan]

Then make friends with a hunter and offer to buy some country food. Your neighbour for example...

I do, but it's illegal.

Not my problem. Eat other meat too.

Not a point. I have legal moose and illegal lake trout

[Shwa]

I do, but it's illegal. Not a point. I have legal moose and illegal lake trout

Glad we could resolve all of this for you.

[Saipan]

We did?

[Shwa]

We did?

We did! You got lots of different meat to eat, problem solved.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Shwa

[Guest TrueMetis]

I mentioned the seal hunt earlier in this thread. As for Aboriginal rights, well I don't know. So far I haven't been able to find anything specific after looking and as mentioned earlier the aquaintance I have at DU couldn't shed any light on it either.

There doesn't seem to be much on it but the seal hunt and other non-commercial hunting regulation First Nations have to contend with would suggest that they have to get a license like everyone else when it comes to commercial hunting.