Final effect of Abortion.

[Oleg Bach]

If you are twenty years old you will not have noticed the incrimental change in the human population. Boardering on 60 years of age I have seen a lot of springs and summers..and have watched and seen the difference in the type of human being that is now thriving and taking over the nation.

The difference is not subtle but strinkingly apparent. The stature of the average person seems to be less - the structure of the scull seems to have shrunk - The very spirit of humanity that used to glow like the new spring sun seems to have dimmed. It takes millions of years of marriage and fine breeding through intelligence and love to create great humans - it has been a slow evolutionary process guided by a higher mindedness that at one time was common within the populace.

It is evident to me that the runts of the litter have been nutured while the alpha humans are slowly being driven into dispair as time goes on. You might say that abortion got rid of inferiours - because the poor and middle class were mostly the victims of this process..This I believe is not the case. The lack of money is not a criterium for inferiourity...nor is the lack of social position a pre-disposition to inferiourity.

I will state one thing that I truely believe in - that through genocidial attrition a new race has formed - those that now thrive are compliant and do not question the material world - religion and spirit are all but gone within our tribe..Muslims are building mosques on our soil and are giving birth to strong healthy children - WE - the foolish are now in a genetic deficit..Those with gifts and talents and strength were not permitted to land. Their landing on earth was aborted - in order to create a race of slaves - there is no leadership - those that should have been our leaders that were NOT born thrity years ago are for all intent and purpose dead.

Other cultures that did not kill their own young will now thrive and take over this grand nation - all because we duped our best into killing their own young - and now we pay the price of watching an empire fall into the hands of strangers - as we fade from the face of the earth with no one to guide us out of this abyss we created.

[Bonam]

You have many odd ideas on evolution and spirituality. You also appear to be suffering from the condition common to the elderly where they idealize the way the world seemed in their youth and find only a dull grayness around them now. Not unlike my own grandmother, for example, who thinks technology is evil and that humans were better off in the 19th century (the knowledge of which she obtains primarily from highly romanticized fictional portrayals) than they are now. She seems even to have a certain fondness for the memories of her youth, despite the unspeakable horrors she lived through at that time in her life (almost her whole family perished in WWII, among other things).

The reality is, people are often happy and optimistic in their youth and enjoy and interact with the world around them. In their old age, many people have grown more cynical, tired, isolated, weary of the world, and their outlook is one more filled with pessimism than optimism. Hence, unrelated to whether the world is actually better now or was better before, their memories and perceptions will always show a bias for the days of their youth.

All that being said, you do have a valid concern regarding the low (in many cases sub-replacement) birth rates, and the implications this will have for our cultures and civilizations.

[Oleg Bach]

You have many odd ideas on evolution and spirituality. You also appear to be suffering from the condition common to the elderly where they idealize the way the world seemed in their youth and find only a dull grayness around them now. Not unlike my own grandmother, for example, who thinks technology is evil and that humans were better off in the 19th century (the knowledge of which she obtains primarily from highly romanticized fictional portrayals) than they are now. She seems even to have a certain fondness for the memories of her youth, despite the unspeakable horrors she lived through at that time in her life (almost her whole family perished in WWII, among other things).

The reality is, people are often happy and optimistic in their youth and enjoy and interact with the world around them. In their old age, many people have grown more cynical, tired, isolated, weary of the world, and their outlook is one more filled with pessimism than optimism. Hence, unrelated to whether the world is actually better now or was better before, their memories and perceptions will always show a bias for the days of their youth.

All that being said, you do have a valid concern regarding the low (in many cases sub-replacement) birth rates, and the implications this will have for our cultures and civilizations.

PRE-judice is not smart - I am not "elderly" _ I have good and powerful genetics and was granted an extended youth..I may be 60 but my body is that of a forty year old - as for the spirit - Yes - I have days when I am disappointed that the world has not evolved or learned - but I do glow most of the time - with great spirit..and love being here on earth - and as for my creative life _ I have more vigor and skill than I did in my youth - so shut up ....

I was never one of those jerks that did not change with the times _ I do not have long gray hair in a pony tail - nor do I listen to dated music - My social world consists primarily of young people..because I play music...NO - my friend - inside this mind and heart is an 18 year old man..and I view the world as such - there is no bias or the good old days floating around in my old grey matter.

The point I was making is that as I look back most of the woman that opted for abortion may not have been educated -- nor was their generation privledged - but I could tell that they came from good vigorous stock - BUT they were duped - When that little weasil Henry Morgantaler promoted abortion across the nation ---he the senile old fart revealed in his withering old age - "Unwanted children grow up to be concentration camp guards" _ for this old Jew to come up with something this bizarre as a motivation - shows that this paranoid freak - actually thought that he could kill the Nazis before they were born - so blonde Germanic woman were targeted...strong woman who were not protected by money - were coerced into aborting..This was my point _Morgantelers agenda was one based in paranoia..and we went for it.

I repeat his quote - "Unwanted children grow up to be concentration camp guards" - and WE give him the order of Canada for killing our best...God are we nuts?

[Bonam]

Ok so your real issue is that this is another evil Jewish conspiracy?

"Blonde Germanic women were targeted"... seriously where do you come up with this stuff? I don't see any evil Jews abducting these Germanic women of yours and forcefully aborting their children. "Coerced into aborting"... who coerces people into aborting? It is a personal choice on the part of a woman (and, when applicable, of the father).

[Battletoads]

What you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is dumber for having read it. I award your post no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

[Oleg Bach]

Ok so your real issue is that this is another evil Jewish conspiracy?

"Blonde Germanic women were targeted"... seriously where do you come up with this stuff? I don't see any evil Jews abducting these Germanic women of yours and forcefully aborting their children. "Coerced into aborting"... who coerces people into aborting? It is a personal choice on the part of a woman (and, when applicable, of the father).

NOT conspiratorial stuff - I did not see Asian woman aborting - nor did I see Jewish woman aborting - it was mostly anglos - and aglo saxon means DANISH GERMAN stock - there was no conspiracy - Morgantaler said it himself - that children should be aborted because they might become Nazis..it came from his mouth.

Fathers had no rights to effect the stopping of an abortion _ I tried once - and threatened to sue a doctor - not knowing that he worked occassionally with police in a forensic capacity - The doctor had two very large scarey detectives invade my home - sit me in a chair and give me a lecture on pro-choice...It was very odd and I had to agree with them in order for them to leave - A year later my wife was giving birth - I stood behind the doctor doing the final extraction - It was the abortionist - He had no idea who I was - watching his hands - I came to the conclution that aborting or birthing was the same to this person- he was creepy..and very mechanical in his approach.

STILL - thinking back - I am shocked that Morgantaler actually believed that he was helping the Jewish cause..and no one seemed to catch on that he was delluded and misled in his beliefs.

[Battletoads]

NOT conspiratorial stuff - I did not see Asian woman aborting - nor did I see Jewish woman aborting - it was mostly anglos - and aglo saxon means DANISH GERMAN stock - there was no conspiracy - Morgantaler said it himself - that children should be aborted because they might become Nazis..it came from his mouth.

Fathers had no rights to effect the stopping of an abortion _ I tried once - and threatened to sue a doctor - not knowing that he worked occassionally with police in a forensic capacity - The doctor had two very large scarey detectives invade my home - sit me in a chair and give me a lecture on pro-choice...It was very odd and I had to agree with them in order for them to leave - A year later my wife was giving birth - I stood behind the doctor doing the final extraction - It was the abortionist - He had no idea who I was - watching his hands - I came to the conclution that aborting or birthing was the same to this person- he was creepy..and very mechanical in his approach.

STILL - thinking back - I am shocked that Morgantaler actually believed that he was helping the Jewish cause..and no one seemed to catch on that he was delluded and misled in his beliefs.

Uhh not to burst your bubble, but asian countries have some of the highest rates of infanticide in the world.

[Bonam]

Fathers had no rights to effect the stopping of an abortion

Perhaps no legal rights but if they are in a relationship with the woman who is considering having an abortion then presumably they have some influence. It would be a truly coldhearted woman who would choose to abort a child while her husband (the child's father) pleaded for her not to. From my understanding most abortions happen from women who conceive without having a stable male partner, or when both parents agree that having an extra child would be a bad idea. I haven't checked any stats so I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Oleg Bach]

Uhh not to burst your bubble, but asian countries have some of the highest rates of infanticide in the world.

Talking about CANADA - not other nations - we have tons of food and opportunity here unlike the nations you mention. A family that say - is in China where there is forced abortion - IF they have the opportunity to come here to raise a family - They will go back to tradtional size of clan and not abort...we on the other hand would say to a young woman - "What about your future" punching a keyboard at a bank till they withered childless...

My point is and the core of this thread - What would the world be like - what would our nation be like if we had given support twenty and thrity years back to woman about to bear children - instead of making it a policy to diswade and frustrate them..WHO would some of these unborn people be today? What would our immigration policy be if we had given support to woman bearing children? WHAT would it have been like for our present aged to have those of the same back ground tend to them in their last years..Now you and I will have our diapers changed by someone who looks at us as the dying status quo.

STATE sponsored abortion was a mistake..time will tell and continue to do so.

[Oleg Bach]

What you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is dumber for having read it. I award your post no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Last night I had this dream that I was in a court room - the female dragon lady judge stepped down into the body of the court and began to brow beat me..she stated that I had no rights - that I was an idiot and not to be heeded..in the morning I thought to my self what "privledge" is. It might just be someone who actually believes that they have god given authority because of their station in life - even if that institution is corrupt and immoral- they believe that we must submit - the point is that I simply do not believe in them because they do not believe in me..the social contract is a two way street..Not a one way parasitic and arrogant sucking action feeding the supposed powerful aggressive and arrogant barbarians that are privledged.

"May God have mercy on your soul" - sounds like the retort swimming in loathing believes they are a judge and I am about to be hung - "we either hang together or be hung seperately" as they say - I do not like division or those that propogate it.

The point of this thread is to explore the vision of what was lost socially - finacially and spiritually through abortion - did we benefit or did we not benefit? Frankly I believe it impoverished society - except for a few who just love the birth of compliant slaves - as the previous writer seems to do.

[msdogfood]

what the hell is this???.

[Sir Bandelot]

Oleg is an artist and a thinker. His posts are not partisan or dishonest, and he has no specific political agenda. He observes the world around him and draws his own conclusions. In some cases, they are entirely his own...

But so what. We need thinkers and dreamers. People who question, who step outside the box. Though I don't agree with everything he says, some of his observations make good sense to me. Technology and "progress", if it can even be called that today, have taken away our dreams. People are bombarded by multimedia, such as in modern movies with special effects and sounds design to psychologically disturb the human mind. Such an over-stimulated brain has no room left to be creative on its own. The minds of the masses who indulge in these forms of entertainment are left placated, and dulled.

"Entertainment is the opium of the masses." - SB

[Bonam]

But so what. We need thinkers and dreamers. People who question, who step outside the box. Though I don't agree with everything he says, some of his observations make good sense to me. Technology and "progress", if it can even be called that today, have taken away our dreams. People are bombarded by multimedia, such as in modern movies with special effects and sounds design to psychologically disturb the human mind. Such an over-stimulated brain has no room left to be creative on its own. The minds of the masses who indulge in these forms of entertainment are left placated, and dulled.

I couldn't disagree more. Technology enables people to achieve their dreams more than was ever before possible, both through its role in creating economic prosperity as well as by simply enabling things to be done which could never be done before. Secondly, what evidence have you that being exposed to multimedia dulls one's mind? Seeing the fantastic depictions of fictional events that we see in movies or immersing yourself in an interactive environment in a video game can stimulate the mind and empower the imagination.

[dizzy]

STILL - thinking back - I am shocked that Morgantaler actually believed that he was helping the Jewish cause..and no one seemed to catch on that he was delluded and misled in his beliefs.

It doesn't matter what Morgentaler's perceived or actual intentions were. He is important because he was a facilitator, not because he was a catalyst. He built a business within an unfulfilled market and fought all opposition toward his personal success. In many ways, he is that rugged individualist you desire. That he also happens to be an important player in the rights for women over their own bodies is almost a byproduct. But I'm glad for that. Sexual liberation has freed half of the population to participate in the race for greatness.

If you are truly concerned about our future thinkers and innovators, I'd focus more on the growth of ADHD diagnoses. It's in our public schools that demands are placed on people to fall in line or risk clinical imprisonment.

[bloodyminded]

Oleg is an artist and a thinker. His posts are not partisan or dishonest, and he has no specific political agenda. He observes the world around him and draws his own conclusions. In some cases, they are entirely his own...

But so what. We need thinkers and dreamers. People who question, who step outside the box. Though I don't agree with everything he says, some of his observations make good sense to me. Technology and "progress", if it can even be called that today, have taken away our dreams. People are bombarded by multimedia, such as in modern movies with special effects and sounds design to psychologically disturb the human mind. Such an over-stimulated brain has no room left to be creative on its own. The minds of the masses who indulge in these forms of entertainment are left placated, and dulled.

"Entertainment is the opium of the masses." - SB

I disagree. I think Bonam is right, and I'll try to expand on it:

What is "design[ed] to psychologically disturb the human mind" is art itself, which at its best navigates the boundaries of society and humanity, and sometimes attempts to smash those boundaries. While it seems true enough that we are bombarded by tripe and nonsense in the media, that is actually only a part of the bombardment, and not the whole.

In the "good old days," society was NOT comprised of free-thinkers, divorced from "media," all of whom were expanding our horizons through their "dreams." On the contrary, the overwhelming majority were struggling with menial means to feed their families, and had no time for chasing elusive dreams.

Things are, on the whole, probably preferable now. And no doubt there are serious downsides...but there are seriosu downsides to the earlier ways as well.

[Sir Bandelot]

I disagree. I think Bonam is right, and I'll try to expand on it:

What is "design[ed] to psychologically disturb the human mind" is art itself, which at its best navigates the boundaries of society and humanity, and sometimes attempts to smash those boundaries. While it seems true enough that we are bombarded by tripe and nonsense in the media, that is actually only a part of the bombardment, and not the whole.

The Greeks had a word for it, "catharsis", the effect that drama in the theatre has upon human emotions. According to Aristotle, catharsis has the effect of pacifying the human mind. By releasing pent up emotions the human soul is purged of its "excess passions". Thus we may conclude that entertainment has a pacifying effect that, when taken to extremes transforms men to mere zoned-out dullards; it acts as a distraction to keep them from knowing or caring about the problems of the real world, and from taking action against them.

Richard Wagner, the great musico-dramatological philosopher writes in his work "On Music and Drama". Here he speaks of commercial art, as compared to classical tragedies, and the use of art as a pacifying influence:

Our theatre merely provides the convenient locale for the tempting exhibition of the heterogeneous wares of art manufacture. On the one hand, the spoken play can never, with but few exceptions, lift itself up to the ideal flight of poetry; but for very reason of the poverty of its utterance -to say nothing of the demoralizing influence of our public life- must fall from height to depth, from the warm atmosphere of passion into the cold element of intrigue. On the other hand, the opera becomes a chaos of sensuous impressions jostling one another without rhyme or reason, from which each person may choose at will what pleases best his fancy; here the alluring movements of the dancer, there the bravura passage of a singer, here the dazzling effect of a triumphant scene painter, there the astounding efforts of a volcanic orchestra. Do we not read from day to day that this or that new opera is a masterpiece because it contains a good number of fine songs and duets, the instrumentation is brilliant and so on? The aim which alone can justify the employment of such complex means - the great dramatic aim- people never give it so much as a thought.

Such verdicts as these are shallow, but honest. They show exactly what is the position of the audience. There are even many of our most popular artists who do not in the least conceal the fact that they have no ambition other than to satisfy this shallow audience. They are wise in their generation; for when the Prince leaves a heavy dinner, the banker a fatiguing financial operation, the workingman a weary day of toil, and go to the theatre, they ask for rest, distraction, and amusement, and are in no mood for renewed effort and fresh expenditure of force. This argument is so convincing that we can reply only by saying: It would be more decorous to employ for this purpose any other thing in the whole world, but not the body and soul of art. We shall then be told however, that if we do not employ art in this manner, it must perish from out our public life, that is, that the artist will lose the means of living.

On this side everything is lamentable, indeed, but candid, genuine and honest; civilized corruption, and dullness!

What serves it us that Shakespeare, like a second creator, has opened for us the endless realm of human nature? What serves it that Beethoven has lent to music the manly, independent strength of poetry? Ask the threadbare charicatures of your theatres, ask the street-minstrel commonplaces of your operas; and ye have your answer! But do ye ask? Alas, no! Ye know it right well; indeed, ye would not have it otherwise; ye give yourselves only the air as if you knew it not!

What then is our modern art, and what is our drama?

The revolution of February 1830 deprived the Paris theatres of public support; many were on the brink of bankruptcy. After the events of June, Cavaignac, busied with the maintenance of the existing order of society, came to their aid and demanded a grant of money for their continuance. Why? Because the breadless classes, the proletariat, would be bolstered by the closing of the theatres. So, this interest alone has the state in the stage! It sees in it an industrial workshop, and, to boot, an influence that may calm the passions, absorb the excitement, and divert the threatening agitation of the heated public mind; which broods in deepest discontent, seeking for the way by which dishonored human nature may return to its true self, even though it be at cost to the continuance of our so-called theatrical institutions!

Mercury, God of Merchants, reigns over modern culture

Edited March 21, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[bjre]

It is the culture that makes western population decrease.

Freedom is what they emphasis on, (although freedom worth nothing if one has no money), they don’t emphasis on individual contribution to society, they don’t say since everyone cost resource of the earth and consume the work of other, he should return some valuable work to others, the result is less and less people here thinks about his responsibility to the nation, to the community, and even to his own family. That is the result western media makes, the easier way for big companies to earn easy money by ask people to consume not only his money that he has but also money from his future, so that more people can survive by less salary, so that people always in debt, although they should not have that debt because they can build their own house in the time they work for others but laws does not allow them do built his own house. So they can not afford more if they want enjoy their life. So the big interest groups take away money, or the work done by working people, working people always in debt, and they are still encouraged them to spend more.

The culture makes people think there is nothing wrong on this. When they find price of goods in China is cheap, they did not think that the price should be like that if not the law makes fat cats take even more, they agree the opinion by the media controlled by those people who actually take so much from them.

The culture is affected by law and education, the law and education is in turn affected by culture. This inevitably makes such a debt driven system and a few fat cats.