Ruby Dhalla to give full pensions after 3 years of residency!

[jdobbin]

Ok, this is a blatant ploy to use my tax dollars to buy the votes of that subset of Canadians

Not dissimilar to things like the Fitness Tax credit.

I oppose both Dhalla's and the Tory tax credit plan. Both try to appeal to subsets of the population and are ill thought out. One doesn't take into account the importance of reciprocal agreements with other nations and the other complicates the tax code.

[msj]

Not dissimilar to things like the Fitness Tax credit.

I oppose both Dhalla's and the Tory tax credit plan. Both try to appeal to subsets of the population and are ill thought out. One doesn't take into account the importance of reciprocal agreements with other nations and the other complicates the tax code.

Well stated, Dobbin.

One mustn't forget other things like the Universal Child Care Benefit (for which the Liberals and NDP would prefer direct day care subsidies).

We could be here all year talking about blatant ploys to use "my" tax dollars for things that I don't directly benefit from.

And that's part of the problem: focusing policy towards what benefits "me" rather than what benefits "us."

Once again, a topic for a different thread....

Edited October 4, 2009 by msj

[msj]

Ughh, I made a mistake a typed in CPP instead of the correct term OAS. That's what I meant and I'm sure you know that msj, knock it off please...people make typographical errors, the world is an imperfect place.

This is not just a typographical error - it is an important point to this entire thread.

The mistake was made in your very first post despite you linking to the article which, presumably, you would have read (evidently not very well).

It goes back to credibility for which you have a knack of not demonstrating as evidenced by the amount of mistakes of understanding that you make in thread after thread.

[Mr.Canada]

Canada cannot allow rampant abuse of our system to be ramped up because of an opposition MP wanting to try to shore up her ethnic voter base. Ruby Dhalla is finished as an MP for Brampton /Springdale next election. She won by less then 1,00 votes last time out, she's done.

I've yet to hear very many Canadians support this outrageous bill. A three year Canadian visitor shouldn't be entitled to the same retirement benefits as a Canadian who has worked and contributed their entire lives. This bill just goes on to show just how out of touch the Liberals really are with Canadians. The typical Liberal arrogance is still there in spades. They must think that they're still leading Canada putting forward a bill like that. Either that or Ruby has grown tired of politics altogether and wants to back to the private sector.

We need to instill a stronger sense of responsibility in our children to make sure things like this never get passed in the future. This is the only way to establish a good foundation for the future of Canada. Teaching young people to go and work hard and save for their own retirement. Not to depend on anyone else and to do for their country and not wait for their country to do for them, as this is a weak and defeatist attitude that will only weaken Canada. Not make it stronger.

We need to rally behind the PM to build a stronger Canada, a self reliant Canada, a Canada we can be proud of. It all starts with strong leadership, it all starts with Stephen Harper.

[msj]

Canada cannot allow rampant abuse of our system to be ramped up because of an opposition MP wanting to try to shore up her ethnic voter base. Ruby Dhalla is finished as an MP for Brampton /Springdale next election. She won by less then 1,00 votes last time out, she's done.

So MP's aren't allowed to pander to their constituents?

If that were the case then there would be no MP's in Canada.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot - it's okay to pander to "real Canadians" but not to those "ethnic" voters.

How Jacques Parizzeau.

I've yet to hear very many Canadians support this outrageous bill.

Well, duh!

Because most people in Canada are against this bill.

A Bill that should not have really made the news in the first place since it is unlikely to every reach second reading never mind actually make it through third or the Senate.

We need to rally behind the PM to build a stronger Canada, a self reliant Canada, a Canada we can be proud of. It all starts with strong leadership, it all starts with Stephen Harper.

We should all have a picture of Harper by our bedsides so our wives have something to look at while "thinking of England."

Edited October 4, 2009 by msj

[whowhere]

Make way for whowhere..... I am with Mr Canada. OAS or CPP one in the same. The Path to automatic citizenship has to stop. I believe in the US you have to be in the US for twenty years after which you are eligible for US citizenship. That's how it should be here. The impact this would create is once they become a citizen they start at ground zero for CPP and OAS. If immigrants don't like these terms leave..This would also mean their CPP payout will at most be half.

It makes no sense bringing in elderly people to Canada as they will be burdening the Health care system. Perhaps a new condition has to be imposed on those who sponser elderly immigrants: They must buy!!! pay for health care insurance. If no health insurers are here in Canada we can direct them to a US health insurer.

It time people stop thinking of themselves and quite to trying to abuse and exploit the next generations of Canadians through higher taxes and a quality of life less than what was traditionally the common norm for Canada.

Shame on those who hate life so much they will stop at nothing to inflict a hell on others. Maybe the haters get what they deserve.

If people didn't do enough to meet the standard for OAS and CPP, welfare is the route for them. Typical of welfare is they can't have any substantial assets or they must sell them to qualify for welfare. The contrast of OAS is they wouldn't be required or compelled to sell their assets. Eff them, if they want help welfare is the route for them.

[Argus]

She was born in Canada.

That makes it even sadder.

[Argus]

Oh, I'm sure in some people's minds that she is as much of an immigrant as "those people" who don't speak "our" language so fluently and wears "our" dress and "our" customs so seamlessly.

For these people it has more to do with "their look" rather than where they were born.

No, it has more to do with attitude than look. And she has made a political career out of representing her ethnic community as a separate entity - ie, not as Canadians.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Make way for whowhere..... I am with Mr Canada. OAS or CPP one in the same. The Path to automatic citizenship has to stop. I believe in the US you have to be in the US for twenty years after which you are eligible for US citizenship. That's how it should be here. The impact this would create is once they become a citizen they start at ground zero for CPP and OAS. If immigrants don't like these terms leave..This would also mean their CPP payout will at most be half.

Twenty years of paying taxes and having those twenty years not meaning anything for your pension. That's not going to happen.

If people didn't do enough to meet the standard for OAS and CPP, welfare is the route for them. Typical of welfare is they can't have any substantial assets or they must sell them to qualify for welfare. The contrast of OAS is they wouldn't be required or compelled to sell their assets. Eff them, if they want help welfare is the route for them.

Have you ever actually been on welfare? You don't get the money to afford rent on a shitty place let alone food and other neccesities.

[Argus]

How are the current rules a slap in the face?

If a person from (and lets pick a "friendly" country for Argus' sake!) England and works from age 55 to 65 and then retires, why shouldn't that person get a prorated OAS pension?

We're talking 3 years not 10. And OAS is not reliant on contributions of any kind. So a better suggestion would be someone coming here at 62, not working a day, because, in all likelihood they only got here because they were sponsored by someone, and us handing over OAS at 65.

If a person actually works for 10 years they would have made actual contributions and thus would get a small CPP cheque.

And btw, aren't we supposedly bringing over immigrants because we're an aging population? Why are we bringing over immigrants in their 60s?

Edited October 4, 2009 by Argus

[Argus]

Ha.

That's the funny thing - I think most of us agree that Bill C-428 is stupid.

It's just some of us disagree with it for substantive reasons without respect to origins while others prefer to rear their ugly prejudices (whether racist like Argus or their incomprehension of Canada's pension system like Mr. Canada).

I"m not sure you're actually smart enough to know what racism is, let alone pronounce on who you believe might or might not be one.

Certainly nothing you've posted to date gives me much confidence you'd be able to tie your shoes without assistance.

[Argus]

Sure.

I suppose we should compare this to Harper's EI reforms which is appealing to a different constituency.

Yeah - Canadians.

[Mr.Canada]

Have you ever actually been on welfare? You don't get the money to afford rent on a shitty place let alone food and other necessities.

Welfare isn't meant to be a long term source of income only a help up.

I have been on welfare as I used to live on the streets of Toronto for many years. I know what it is to have nothing but I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself and got myself educated all the while staying in hostels in downtown Toronto until I was able to rent a room.

I used to be a NDP supporter, I was a big one but I have learned that if I want anything in this life I need to go and work for it, that no one will provide for me.

Now I own property, a car, have a family and all the trappings of suburban life.

This is why I'm so hard core against people lining up for free handouts constantly from our taxes. I know what it is to have nothing but I also know what it is to struggle in order to better myself and that through hard work anything is possible.

Yes, we need some form of social services but not to the point where people expect to be bale to afford themselves a comfortable living off the rest of our tax dollars that is absurd.

[Argus]

Well stated, Dobbin.

One mustn't forget other things like the Universal Child Care Benefit (for which the Liberals and NDP would prefer direct day care subsidies).

We could be here all year talking about blatant ploys to use "my" tax dollars for things that I don't directly benefit from.

The difference you are ignoring is that all policies are intended to benefit one or more groups of Canadians, if not the country as a whole.

Dhalla's program is designed to benefit foreigners.

[Argus]

Twenty years of paying taxes and having those twenty years not meaning anything for your pension. That's not going to happen.

I've been paying into the Canada Pension Plan for about thirty years now - and continue to pay into it. I won't get to collect a penny, though. That's the way federal pensions are calculated. They deducate the entire amount of CPP eligibility from them.

[jdobbin]

Dhalla's program is designed to benefit foreigners.

OAS can only be collected by Canadians.

[whowhere]

I've been paying into the Canada Pension Plan for about thirty years now - and continue to pay into it. I won't get to collect a penny, though. That's the way federal pensions are calculated. They deducate the entire amount of CPP eligibility from them.

The fact you are being paid well enough and have such a pension you are contributing towards ought to be comforting enough to you. How many people are competing with the onslaught of immigrants for job prospects to only get close to minimum wage with no pension period. In Canada's current economic model people barely have money to function. Forget about saving for retirement.

Like EI, CPP is just another tax to provide a baseline. Welfare is for those who slip below EI and CPP/OAS standards. As the way of welfare you must sell all your assets and live like you deserve. If Federal pensions are calculated that way, all pensions in Canada ought to be calculated that way as well. If this is done across the board CPP premiums would have to go down if the money is not be stolen as was done with EI.

What people have to get is Canada is not a success unless Canadians make more, pay less taxes, and get more than our counterparts in the US and Europe. What is the case Canadians make less, pay more taxes, and get less than the US and Europe. Why is that?

The Conservatives and LIberals ought to be ashamed for what they have done to Canada.

[whowhere]

OAS can only be collected by Canadians.

Define Canadian? How hard is it to become landed immigrant status? To easy. Canada also has to stop recognizing dual citizenship. You are either a Canadian or you are not.

[msj]

Make way for whowhere..... I am with Mr Canada. OAS or CPP one in the same.

Yeah, man!

They're the same thing, man!

I don't know a thing what I'm talking about, man!

My name is whatwhen, man!

The Path to automatic citizenship has to stop. I believe in the US you have to be in the US for twenty years after which you are eligible for US citizenship. That's how it should be here. The impact this would create is once they become a citizen they start at ground zero for CPP and OAS. If immigrants don't like these terms leave..This would also mean their CPP payout will at most be half.

And this is where it helps to know a thing or two about CPP and OAS.

You only get a pension from CPP if you pay into it.

One could come to Canada at age 70, live to 115 and still get nothing out of CPP because they did not pay into it.

You get to collect a prorated amount of OAS after 10 years of being in Canada. One does not have to specifically pay into OAS.

Now, given that you are clueless on CPP/OAS please excuse me as I ignore your opinions on the US system. If you don't even know the basics of Canada's pension system then you certainly don't have the credibility to know anything about their system, or anything else you have written in this post.

[msj]

We're talking 3 years not 10. And OAS is not reliant on contributions of any kind. So a better suggestion would be someone coming here at 62, not working a day, because, in all likelihood they only got here because they were sponsored by someone, and us handing over OAS at 65.

If a person actually works for 10 years they would have made actual contributions and thus would get a small CPP cheque.

Um, I already stated that I'm against the rule change to 3 years so I don't know exactly what you're responding to.

This is exactly why I'm against 3 years but I have no problem with 10 years (see my examples above).

What I am against even more, however, is your racist attitude towards this whole thing.

But I give you credit for arguing substance in this post.

[msj]

I"m not sure you're actually smart enough to know what racism is, let alone pronounce on who you believe might or might not be one.

Certainly nothing you've posted to date gives me much confidence you'd be able to tie your shoes without assistance.

Fair enough.

You prefer ad hominem attacks.

First on Dhalla with your anti-immigration and, yes, racist remarks and now by insulting my intelligence.

Had you provided some substance to back up your arguments in the first place, rather than spew a bunch of non-sense unrelated to bill C-428 maybe I wouldn't be laughing so hard at you right now.

[msj]

I've been paying into the Canada Pension Plan for about thirty years now - and continue to pay into it. I won't get to collect a penny, though. That's the way federal pensions are calculated. They deducate the entire amount of CPP eligibility from them.

Ok, I think you are talking about your regular pension being reduced once your CPP kicks in.

That's between you and your pension plan provider - you will receive CPP, it's just that your regular pension will be reduced.

Lots of plans do this. Boo, hoo hoo.

And, this really doesn't have anything to do with the OP since the OP is about OAS and not the CPP.

Edited October 5, 2009 by msj

[Mr.Canada]

Full pensions after 3 years of residency is absurd. Some elderly immigrant can work in another country contributing to that countries well being then come to Canada at 62 wait til 65 and collect a full pension? That is ridiculous and should be thrown out. Ruby Dhalla is finished as an MP. She can return to manipulating spines and cracking necks she's done here. Nannygate and now Pensiongate, Canadians have had enough of this woman who strives to bankrupt Canada. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

If people don't contribute money to Canada they shouldn't get to draw anything at all from the public purse.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Full pensions after 3 years of residency is absurd. Some elderly immigrant can work in another country contributing to that countries well being then come to Canada at 62 wait til 65 and collect a full pension? That is ridiculous and should be thrown out. Ruby Dhalla is finished as an MP. She can return to manipulating spines and cracking necks she's done here. Nannygate and now Pensiongate, Canadians have had enough of this woman who strives to bankrupt Canada. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

If people don't contribute money to Canada they shouldn't get to draw anything at all from the public purse.

Why do you keep repeating something you know to be false? This is OAS not CPP there is a difference.

[fellowtraveller]

It does not matter if the bill passes or fades to obscurity, Ruby has accomplished her purpose in proposing it: votes, lots of votes as she is seen as an advocate for immigrants. Trying , however feebly, to give money away is always popular with the proposed recipients. She can later point out it was racist Tories who derailed the gravy train and denied these elederly immigrants their civil rights and cheated them out of their due..

Dhalla might need the bump, she is rumoured to be in a tad of trouble getting reelected in her riding.