Not On Conservative Agenda...

[cgarrett]

what you will never see on the conservative agenda... a discussion of wealth distribution!

from Statistics Canada's Survey of Financial Security:

"The wealthiest ten percent of family units held 53 percent of the wealth in 1999. The wealthiest 50 percent of family units controlled an almost unbelievable 94.4 percent of the wealth, leaving only 5.6 percent for the bottom 50 percent. "

"The poorest ten percent of family units have negative average wealth or more debts than assets. Average wealth adjusted for inflation for the poorest ten percent actually declined by 28 percent from -$8,031 in 1970 to -$10,656 in 1999."

"Average wealth adjusted for inflation for the richest ten percent of family units increased from $442,468 in 1970 to $980,903 in 1999--an increase of 122 percent ."

the fact is... if you are a rich canadian then you should vote conservative. its in your best interest. if you are not in the top ten percent and you vote conservative... well, why would you do that?

[willy]

So cgarrett, how is this wealth measured. Do they have big bank accounts that hold cash? Do they own a number of personal homes?

No, a few individuals own large organizations. Jim Pattison a good example. He probably does take home more than you or me but to use his net worth as a basis of comparison doesn't equate.

I would not seek equity. I would focus on those in society with the lowest living standard and figure out how to give them a leg up. Don't spend time figuring out how to make successful people poor.

[MapleLeafMerc]

So cgarrett, how is this wealth measured. To they have big bank accounts that hold cash? Do they own a number of personal homes?

No, a few individuals own large organizations. Jim Pattison a good example. He probably does take home more than you our me but to use his net worth as a basis of comparison doesn't equate.

I would not seek equity. I would focus on those in society with the lowest living standard and figure out how to give them a leg up. Don't spend time figuring out how to make successful people poor.

Excellent, Willy

[legamus]

hey cgarrett i have a question for you. do you think everyone should have the same income? what are your ideas and ideals for the distribution of wealth?

[MapleLeafMerc]

hey cgarrett i have a question for you. do you think everyone should have the same income? what are your ideas and ideals for the distribution of wealth?

You sound like Marx speaking to Lenin the first time they planned the glorious system called communism.

Why don't you "like minded" thinkers just PM each other and spare the rest of us a boring discussion about failed ideas.

[legamus]

...which explains why i've voted alliance or conservative in every election i've been old enough to vote for.

[maplesyrup]

No wonder the rich vote right wing.

Now the key is how to make the average Canadian vote in their own best interest, instead of in the interest of the wealthy minority.

[maplesyrup]

hey cgarrett i have a question for you. do you think everyone should have the same income? what are your ideas and ideals for the distribution of wealth?

You sound like Marx speaking to Lenin the first time they planned the glorious system called communism.

Why don't you "like minded" thinkers just PM each other and spare the rest of us a boring discussion about failed ideas.

The only boring thing is your attempt to smear and the lack of any substance in your post.

Perhaps a good way to redistribute wealth is to level say a 10% death tax.

[Hugo]

I've got a great way to redistribute wealth. I'll go to the houses of people richer than I and steal their cars, TVs, DVD players and so on.

Of course, that's basically what "wealth redistribution" amounts to: stealing. Taking from those who earnt, and giving to those who didn't. Punishing success, rewarding failure. Call it what you will. It does not work. Eventually you will run out of people to steal from, and then how will the system be sustained? Slave labour, as in the USSR and China? Wonderful.

[joseph13]

I wholeheartily agree with your statements-Any conservative Regime like the last that was in Ontario--Clearly proves the case that Conservatives look after their Rich Friends and Corporations only-by way of Excessive ammounts of money being given for Consulting Fees-they milk the public coffers -tell the Public it"s Hard Times-and yet they go on personal Spending sprees-They do absolutly nothing for the Public Cause or to further Society-Theirs is a Greedy Self Centered Agenda!-And as far as the Liberal Scandal goes--The Tories did all that and more in Ontario and they have proved that they cannot be trusted at all-- At least the Liberals have always brought out useful everyday programs for our Society and it is only them and the NDP that have furthered our Cause Today!--thank you Joseph13

[joseph13]

We Really Do Need New Wealth Distribution--A Real New Deal --For Canadians--Power and Money should not Just be in the Hands of the Top part of the Population--To Begin With --Being a Rich Country--We Should have Free Government paid College and University For all that Want it-This puts Everyone on the same equal Foundation---Most Canadians are Saddled with HUge Student Loans --that put them Behind The 8 Ball-Before they even Get Out of The Starting Gate!--It's Possible--Look at the Money Governments Squander-through Scandals Anyways-They Piss On Our Backs And Tell US IT's Raining!--They Tell US we Have NO Money and Yet They Waste And Squander It!-----Secondly Eliminate Poverty by Guaranteeing Every Person in Canada A Base Income of-Say The Poverty Level MinimumRoughly $17,600. dollars per year--Eliminating Poverty For All!--Poverty Is A National Disgrace----This Is A Good Start!!!------Thanks ----Joseph13

[willy]

joseph13,

Let me guess you don't have any money.

And for students they are heavily subsidized. For the cost of a new car they can have an education that lasts a life time. It was the Liberals that cut the federal education transefer payments and put in its place programs for student loans.

It is also possible to go to school and come out without any loan, I did. It is called working for a living.

For this country to afford all those great programs you referred to we all need to add value to the economy.

And for the PC Ontario party, you smear them with scandal but you don't refer to the details. My guess is you really didn't like the downsizing of government and this is what left you with such a bad taste.

[cgarrett]

conservative policies support the following:

an individual with enough capital for seeding a business starts a wood and lumber company.

in the ideal conservative world, there is no government regulation... democracy has not power over him.

so, he hires people to work for him, at the lowest wages possible for the cheapest conditions possible.

he has his people clear cut. there is no point in re-forestation. important streams and other habitats are not protected. its straight profit. no stumpage fees are paid, no taxes are paid.

now this individual has created a fortune for himself. the trees may be running out or there may be more to come. in any case, the country is still run by a democracy which may decide that any of these practices that he has employed may not be in the best public interests. no problem, we have free trade and globalization. so he either sells his business or folds it, packs his bags full of money he made from canadian wealth... and flys to the british virgin islands or some other secure tax haven.

now what is the problem with this scenario? we live in a resource rich country. if we allowed this type of activity, which we already do but not to this extreme, then the wealth of our country would just be constantly pumped out of the country. and canadians would enjoy none of it!

[maplesyrup]

joseph13,

Let me guess you don't have any money.

willy.....I think you have just confirmed what the purpose of democracy means for the wealthy/elite.

If one is poor financially then your opinion is of no value, or worthless. Right.

[cgarrett]

as a comical addition to my last post on the ideal conservative climate.... the paradox is that conservative agenda never calls for NO taxes! they are not that stupid! the wealthiest of our society have learned very well how to use the efforts of the working classes to their own ends! they prefer that we pay for the public infrastructure that they need in order to run their business. infrastructure that would make their business completely unprofitable if they had to pay for it themselves! things like highways, water utilities, power utilities, police, national defense.

one extreme example is in the united states where trillions of tax dollars are now being spent on the military industrial complex to wage war to oil rights. this in a country where 40 percent of voters have no health care!

[willy]

Maplesyrup,

I was not attaching value to an economic class. All individuals are equally valuable. If you have read any of my other posts you would realize that I think business owners and workers need to work together for them to mutually benefit.

I object to the right of entitlement. By simply existing you should not receive a standard of living that is equal. Nice utopia but not realistic or sustainable.

Those who cannot provide for themselves should be helped but that does not extend to a perfectly employable individual. Barriers to self sufficiency need to be removed and that is the role of government not business.

Other posts are confusing conservatism with the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party sees a clear role for government in regulating business and punishing crime.