McHale running as an Independent in election

Wild Bill · October 18, 2008

Arguably, many people who voted for him would likely have not supported other candidates because none of them wants something done about it, not even the Liberal candidate. Also, it's to be expected that the Cons would get many votes given the size and demographic of the riding. Many are not directly effected by the situation in Caledonia, and probably don't fully understand what Six Nations is really trying to accomplish.

Don't really understand? With young braves riding ATV's through their backyards at night, with lights, loud music and sometimes firing guns into the air, after protests that blocked the major access through the town and having their electricity dead for an entire weekend, who in their right mind would care?

kengs333 · October 19, 2008

Don't really understand? With young braves riding ATV's through their backyards at night, with lights, loud music and sometimes firing guns into the air, after protests that blocked the major access through the town and having their electricity dead for an entire weekend, who in their right mind would care?

I'm talking about the entire riding, not just Caledonia. Some farmer out Long Point way isn't going to really be concerned much, nor really know what's going on...

Wild Bill · October 19, 2008

I'm talking about the entire riding, not just Caledonia. Some farmer out Long Point way isn't going to really be concerned much, nor really know what's going on...

You may be right but I kinda doubt it. I know a lot of farmers out there and my experience is that they are a very clannish bunch. They maintain interest in their farming neighbours for miles and miles.

Rural folks have much more of a sense of community than city dwellers in places like Toronto. In that area, they all know that they could be hit with such native protests at any time themselves, at the drop of a hat. Look at the attempt to make an issue out of the Ancaster Fair.

It breeds insecurity, and insecurity always pulls people together.

It's interesting that we never hear of a poll in that area asking "Do you trust your governments or the OPP to protect you during these protests?"

And it's a sucker's bet that we never, ever will! Fantino seems to have an odd attitude, judging by his remarks in the papers and that email that just came to light. He would appear to be perfectly content to have the town burned to the ground, as long as the people just stood by quietly and didn't make any ruckus about it.

madmax · October 19, 2008

Well, McHale got 10% of the vote. That's respectable for an Independent. I'm a little mystified by Finley's re-election, but I suppose the Carbon Tax had a lot to do with that, it being a large rural riding. The poll results should be interesting.

People in Haldimand Norfolk, held their nose and voted for Finley over the Liberal, because they really didn't like Dion, let alone the Liberal Platform. People also like the GP Platform Less. Which left them with Finley, McHale and surprisingly, Nicholson who wasn't expected to do well and grabbed more votes then McHale, who got more spotlight along with the Lib and Finley.

Finley also could meet the public outside of Caledonia without to much criticism because the feds came up with something for the Tobacco Farmers, and most people (General Public) were content with the money offered to the Farmers and not the details.

charter.rights · October 20, 2008

So you're agreeing, then, that Joseph Brant sold off much of the Haldimand Tract, and that he did so legally?
Your contradicting yourself. All evidence that you can cite is produced by Europeans, and as you've already stated European records are not accurate and cannot be relied upon.

The Mitchell Map is a European document, and you have no real proof of its accuracy, do you?

So if the purchase of land from the Mississauga is not legal, neither is the Haldmand Proclamation.

Whatever the case, Six Nations is disputing land that is not legally theres one way or another.

You see you're getting confused. The Huron were situated in the Midland region, and were later mostly exterminated by the Iroquois. The Neutral were situated in the Grand River valley and Niagara Peninsula. They too were largely exterminated.

No, Joseph Brant did not sell off most of the Haldimand. He sold off allotments within the Haldimand Tract that did not and could not change the status or boundaries of the Haldimand Tract. And under the Royal Proclamation of 1763 selling off part of the Haldimand Tract would have been impossible unless and until all the rules for a surrender had taken place. Essentially those farmers became subjects of the Haudenosaunee.

The Haudensaunee have input many records of agreements, letters of understanding and grievances that have been submitted between the Crown and the Haudenosaunee. The importance of records and maps such as the Mitchell Map 1757 are to rely upon wholly, but to confirm the understanding of the British at the time the Royal Proclamation 1763 was made and to certify that the records the Haudenosaunee hold are accurate. What is inaccurate is when the Solicitor General states that the 1844 agreement is valid without any proof, or substantive evidence. The myths that that perpetuates does nothing for correcting past wrongs and insteads helps someone like McHale spread his racist lies.

It doesn't matter whether the Mitchell Map is certified since it is the basis for the Royal Proclamation 1763 and provides the boundaries of different nations at that time. What is important is that it defines the direction that the Crown was going in declaring the proclamation - essentially in Ontario that means it was set out to protect the interests of Six Nations to the Ottawa River. Since these two documents declare the legal beginning of the relationship between the Crown and Six Nations, nothing else forward could venture away from the intent. The Haldimand Proclamation must have had a similar and consistent intent and since the legal recognition was that Six Nations "owned" all of Ontario in 1757, then the Haldimand Proclamation was made not to purchase land (which Six Nations already owned) but for protecting that particular land base from colonial expansion.

And no the Huron, Neutrals, Tobacco were not "exterminated". No doubt that is just another of McHale's racist propaganda you are repeating. I have already stated what happened and that the Huron were really Six Nations people living on the north shore of lakes Ontario and Eries long before Europeans started migrating here. And they are not the same as the Wendat who occupied the Midland region of Ontario in the 1600's.

kengs333 · October 21, 2008

Essentially those farmers became subjects of the Haudenosaunee.