planetx Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) check this out! http://www.worldcarfans.com/2060724.006/pm...p-electric-mini 640 hourse power mini... the new in wheel electric motor. a gas engine the size of a baby basket! we need to pressure all levels of government to lighten the restrictions on alternative vehichles now! lets face it, the automobile has been nothing more than a delivery system for oil consumption up until now. i have no doubt that big auto and big oil are practically the same people and they have been feeding us bigger and bigger vehicles in order to ensure that smaller vehicles could not be built strong enough and light enough to survive impact with a frickin tank! Edited July 8, 2008 by planetx Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 . i have no doubt that big auto and big oil are practically the same people and they have been feeding us bigger and bigger vehicles in order to ensure that smaller vehicles could not be built strong enough and light enough to survive impact with a frickin tank! I have no doubt you have no idea how things work....or why autoworkers are being laid off....or why hybrid sales are good.... sheesh..... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
segnosaur Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 check this out!http://www.worldcarfans.com/2060724.006/pm...p-electric-mini 640 hourse power mini... the new in wheel electric motor. a gas engine the size of a baby basket! we need to pressure all levels of government to lighten the restrictions on alternative vehichles now! lets face it, the automobile has been nothing more than a delivery system for oil consumption up until now. i have no doubt that big auto and big oil are practically the same people and they have been feeding us bigger and bigger vehicles in order to ensure that smaller vehicles could not be built strong enough and light enough to survive impact with a frickin tank! Impressive little car, but you need to keep a few things in mind: - Its quite possible that some of the technology in the car wasn't available until recently. (Things like Battery technology have improved over the past few years, as have new lightweight composites) - Those electric cars may not necessarily be saving us much energy. The electricity that initially powers it may be coming from fossil-fuel power plants. (They did give a rating of 80mpg... however, I'm not sure if that's with just the internal engine powering doing the recharge, or if it also includes whatever initial charge the car had.) - Would you really be in favour of removing some of the safety requirements to allow cars to be lighter/smaller? (Even if you mandated all new cars to be similarly small, there will still be an adjustment period when small cars have to exist with current large cars). How many deaths would you find acceptable? - Electric cars have their own unique problems... the batteries often contain some very nasty chemicals that have to be disposed of very carefully Still, its a neat car, and frankly, I'd love to see more of these sorts of things on the road. Quote
planetx Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Posted July 8, 2008 Impressive little car, but you need to keep a few things in mind:- Its quite possible that some of the technology in the car wasn't available until recently. (Things like Battery technology have improved over the past few years, as have new lightweight composites) - Those electric cars may not necessarily be saving us much energy. The electricity that initially powers it may be coming from fossil-fuel power plants. (They did give a rating of 80mpg... however, I'm not sure if that's with just the internal engine powering doing the recharge, or if it also includes whatever initial charge the car had.) - Would you really be in favour of removing some of the safety requirements to allow cars to be lighter/smaller? (Even if you mandated all new cars to be similarly small, there will still be an adjustment period when small cars have to exist with current large cars). How many deaths would you find acceptable? - Electric cars have their own unique problems... the batteries often contain some very nasty chemicals that have to be disposed of very carefully Still, its a neat car, and frankly, I'd love to see more of these sorts of things on the road. definitely there's no free lunch... but the number of alternative vehicle prototypes out there that all are shooting for the same ground is indicative of where we should be going. and the complete and utter lack of interest in this direction by government and the existing industry is a sure sign of lack of will to change. there was a post not so long ago about the zap electric vehichle... sold world wide, made in canada but canadians unable to drive one! just to respond to some of your point though.... - electricity may come from fossil sources in any case, but the automobile internal combustion engine is one of the least efficient devices around! centralized power production is from fossil fuels is far more efficient because of available technology used by big plants. - the saftey issues are important. but so far, government has been mandating in the absolute wrong direction in favor of huge vehicles. take the neighborhood electric vehicle (nev). these glorified golf carts are mandated at (conveniently) just below common road speeds (i'm sure just to ensure these cheap and efficient means of transportation are completely unattractive to local commuters). why can't we imagine a world where big heavy gas gusslers are mandated to lower speeds so that smaller, lighter vehicles do not need to pass side and rear impact tests with trucks at high speeds? either way, just one look at this and many other new hybrid and electric vehicles (the big stupid excuses for hybrids in the form of suv's aside... what a farce!) makes it apparent where the future of personal transportation lies. its too bad that government has turned a blind eye to all of it! Quote
AngusThermopyle Posted July 8, 2008 Report Posted July 8, 2008 Electric is fine for small vehicles however horsepower is not tourque. Generally electric motors produce some pretty impresive tourque, at the expense of heat generation. For the average vehicle they may be just fine but certain applications require tourque not horsepower. As such one must consider the cooling system and battery capacity, can they be applied in a practical way when it comes to high tourque applications? Now one could point to diesel electric locomotives as an example of high tourque electric applications as possibly applied to automobiles. What one must keep in mind though is the fact that the diesel in a locomotive does not charge batteries to run the motors, it drives a high output generator which in turn supplies the motors. An automobile does not have the luxury of the space availlable in a locomotive for all these systems and their associated cooling aparatus. I for one am all for alternate power vehicles but I still have my doubts as to their real world practicality in high tourque/load applications. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
planetx Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Posted July 8, 2008 Electric is fine for small vehicles however horsepower is not tourque. Generally electric motors produce some pretty impresive tourque, at the expense of heat generation. For the average vehicle they may be just fine but certain applications require tourque not horsepower. As such one must consider the cooling system and battery capacity, can they be applied in a practical way when it comes to high tourque applications?Now one could point to diesel electric locomotives as an example of high tourque electric applications as possibly applied to automobiles. What one must keep in mind though is the fact that the diesel in a locomotive does not charge batteries to run the motors, it drives a high output generator which in turn supplies the motors. An automobile does not have the luxury of the space availlable in a locomotive for all these systems and their associated cooling aparatus. I for one am all for alternate power vehicles but I still have my doubts as to their real world practicality in high tourque/load applications. hey, the internal combustion engine is here to stay! i suspect commercial applications will always require such engines. but lets keep the gas engines where they need to be and get them out of personal transportation... lets face it, the common automobile is heavily over powered for whats its actually used for! in fact, its heavily over powered from a safety perspective as well. just look at any auto chase on youtube! a frickin mini van is capable of speeds and acceleration that its suspension is incapable of keeping on the road! total overkill! Quote
madmax Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 (edited) there was a post not so long ago about the zap electric vehichle... sold world wide, made in canada but canadians unable to drive one! The biggest flaw of the ZAP is that it was able to do only 25km, and now 40km per hour. This STINKS, as a functional vehicle. Now what are they doing wrong..... Just prior to 1900, before the pre-eminence of internal combustion engines, electric automobiles held many speed and distance records. Among the most notable of these records was the breaking of the 100 km/h (60 mph) speed barrier, by Camille Jenatzy on April 29, 1899 in his 'rocket-shaped' vehicle Jamais Contente, which reached a top speed of 105.88 km/h (65.79 mph). 100km an hour over 1 century ago, and these guys can't come up with a vehicle 50% of that speed. They wanted press, they got press. I don't think people know this . An article from Forbes magazine in June 2007 criticizes the company for over-issuing stock and failing to produce results or show significant profits.[1]A feature article in the April 2008 issue of Wired alleged that "ZAP has taken millions from investors and dealers eager to see the company's line of green cars hit the road. But that line has never materialized."[2] ZAP sold a lot of shares based on its intention to sell Smart cars, but that deal fell through, leading the Smart car's manufacturer to say that ZAP's behavior revealed "both the sham nature of its purported business and a lack of trustworthiness that is nothing short of stunning."[3]. Zap has a history of making public relations statements for future projects which are never implemented or funded. Edited July 9, 2008 by madmax Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 The biggest flaw of the ZAP is that it was able to do only 25km, and now 40km per hour. This STINKS, as a functional vehicle. Now what are they doing wrong..... 100km an hour over 1 century ago, and these guys can't come up with a vehicle 50% of that speed. They wanted press, they got press. Not to mention that as they stand today, in Canada, in winter, electric cars have a hard time running on the road and heating the driver at the same time... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
madmax Posted July 9, 2008 Report Posted July 9, 2008 Not to mention that as they stand today, in Canada, in winter, electric cars have a hard time running on the road and heating the driver at the same time... Funny that you mention that. (Btw, just edited post above yours). I expect progress on the heating front, but it appears that alot of time in the hybrids is spent on heating in the winter, using the combustion engine. As Canada is getting "warmer" see some other popular threads, don't worry about heating Quote
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