Ex-Liberal charged in Sponsership scandal!

[jdobbin]

Stephane Dion was a cabinet minister close to Cretien during AdScam. This cannot be denied.

It also can't be denied that there was a full public inquiry and no Liberal MP was found to be involved in the fraud.

CPC has not shown to have done anything wrong. There are accusations. I forgot, that means guilty right? I also forgot that armchair pundits try everyone through the media dealing with fantasy instead of facts. I doubt anyone on this forum is privy to any of the details to the case so people are speaking from ignorance which is less then reality, surely even the LPC knows this.

It also can't be denied that it is the first time in Canadian history that a federal party headquarters have been raided. They weren't "visited" as the Tories so politely have tried to say.

Tories respect the traditional values of Canadians it is Liberals and further left that want to introduce new values and change things. Conservatives want things to remain as they were socially.

And those values are non-transparent accounting methods in elections?

I'm sure glad to see that the Liberals don't have any pitbulls though. I guess Dion and others speaking in themedia and in this forum don't qualify as being reactionary...no of course not. Only Tories are bad and do bad. Liberals and their supporters always speak truth...how dare I question the arrogance...

I guess we can expect another lawsuit from our prime minister named sue.

]EDIT - Further more, in the case of the polls and an election. Wait until Dion starts opening his mouth, his poll numbers will drop. He is the weakest speaker out of the four by far. His words are muddled and he doesn't get his message through. That or he make foolish remarks...like " Do you think it's easy to set priorities?" and other assorted gems.

And the Liberals will be able to show the raid on Tory headquarters. How delightful.

Bring on the election, he'll get wiped out in the polls and in any debate. Also our system is based on seats and not on percentage. He basically has to gain 15 seats and I just don't see that happening sorry.

And the Tories can't win anymore seats in Alberta and only one more in Alberta. The Tories can keep alienating women and immigrants and sit in minority again.

[jdobbin]

I'm going to stop there, you've been embarrassed enough for one day. I'll show you mercy.

And no Liberal MP was implicated as being part of the fraud as has been determined by public inquiry.

[Qwerty]

And no Liberal MP was implicated as being part of the fraud as has been determined by public inquiry.

They are basically unelectable in the province of Quebec, the province with th e second most seats. That leaves it for the CPC and BQ to fight out with CPC already with the most support and rising.

They did it to themselves. Implicated or not. The money didn't just float out of the government bank accounts did it. Someone with access had to transfer the funds at some point or another and low level officials do not have access to hundreds of millions of dollars.

[jdobbin]

They are basically unelectable in the province of Quebec, the province with th e second most seats. That leaves it for the CPC and BQ to fight out with CPC already with the most support and rising.

This was not what you argued earlier. You said that Liberal MPs were guilty even though a public inquiry found they were not involved in the activities that led to charges.

The Liberals are now in the lead by 3 points and still rising in Ontario, the place with the most seats.

Much of the recent problems from the Liberals in Quebec come from internal fighting. The latest Decima poll April 13 had the Liberals leading the Tories in Quebec.

They did it to themselves. Implicated or not. The money didn't just float out of the government bank accounts did it. Someone with access had to transfer the funds at some point or another and low level officials do not have access to hundreds of millions of dollars.

And it contributed to their defeat in the last election. Still, they might have been able to hold onto minority of the RCMP had not announced an investigation in December 2005 against standard practice of not confirming or denying investigations.

[Shakeyhands]

This was taken directly from the tax payers pockets. Not everyone respects tax payers...obviously.

No, not everyone respects tax payers money at all! Have you heard about the Tory 'in and out' scheme where they filed for rebates paid for by tax payers money on ineligible submissions????

Crrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyy!

[Qwerty]

No, not everyone respects tax payers money at all! Have you heard about the Tory 'in and out' scheme where they filed for rebates paid for by tax payers money on ineligible submissions????

Crrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyy!

I dislike it when people, well the media started it, call it a scheme. A scheme is not an accurate description of a new accounting practice which is quite resourceful as it turns out.

Again these are merely allegations and require proof to be binding...

[punked]

I dislike it when people, well the media started it, call it a scheme. A scheme is not an accurate description of a new accounting practice which is quite resourceful as it turns out.

Again these are merely allegations and require proof to be binding...

It is money laundering that is a scheme.

[Qwerty]

This was not what you argued earlier. You said that Liberal MPs were guilty even though a public inquiry found they were not involved in the activities that led to charges.

The Liberals are now in the lead by 3 points and still rising in Ontario, the place with the most seats.

Much of the recent problems from the Liberals in Quebec come from internal fighting. The latest Decima poll April 13 had the Liberals leading the Tories in Quebec.

And it contributed to their defeat in the last election. Still, they might have been able to hold onto minority of the RCMP had not announced an investigation in December 2005 against standard practice of not confirming or denying investigations.

They were involved, they had to know what was going on or else they are too incompetent and not worthy of public office.

The LPC will always lead in Ontario I'm sure. However 3 points behind is better than I expected.

The Liberals are in fourth place in Quebec.

For sure Adscam did the LPC in. No doubt about it agreed. The Adscam results came out during the campaign if I remember correctly and until then the Liberals held a slim lead...correct you are.

[Qwerty]

It is money laundering that is a scheme.

You're really reaching now...saying the PM is involved in money laundering.

Again I hate to keep saying this but they are only allegations and not proven. The opposition getting jumpy over getting soundly beaten is quite routine in the world of politics. This is quite normal for EC to keep an up to date audit on political parties accounting practices. They probably want to know how they did it so the Liberals can use it as well.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Qwerty

[punked]

You're really reaching now...saying the PM is involved in money laundering.

Again I hate to keep saying this but they are only allegations and not proven.

How is sending money to one place so they can send the exact same money it back so that is ok for the party to now spend not money laundering? The conservatives are admitting they did this the question is it illegal? It is a scheme, legal or not.

From wiki "Money laundering is the practice of engaging in financial transactions in order to conceal the identity, SOURCE, and/or destination of money"

I am not saying it was illegal or not but it is clearly not moral.

Edited April 23, 2008 by punked

[jdobbin]

They were involved, they had to know what was going on or else they are too incompetent and not worthy of public office.

Now you not using facts. They *had* to know?

The LPC will always lead in Ontario I'm sure. However 3 points behind is better than I expected.

That is 3 points down nationally. They are way ahead in Ontario.

The Liberals are in fourth place in Quebec.

Not according to the last two polls on April 13. They are either second ahead of the Tories or third behind the Tories. Take your pick. Those are the facts.

For sure Adscam did the LPC in. No doubt about it agreed. The Adscam results came out during the campaign if I remember correctly and until then the Liberals held a slim lead...correct you are.

They had majority support in the polls in the days ahead of the election. There was no adscam news during the election. There was an RCMP announcement into Goodale which took the Liberals down 10 points. Those are the facts.

[Qwerty]

Now you not using facts. They *had* to know?

That is 3 points down nationally. They are way ahead in Ontario.

Not according to the last two polls on April 13. They are either second ahead of the Tories or third behind the Tories. Take your pick. Those are the facts.

They had majority support in the polls in the days ahead of the election. There was no adscam news during the election. There was an RCMP announcement into Goodale which took the Liberals down 10 points. Those are the facts.

Obviously. How can people in Jean Chretien's office send hundreds of millions of dollars without even Paul Martin knowing? He was the Finance Minister don't you know.

Ontario is an urban union province. The rural areas are mostly blue and will most likely remain that way.

The Liberals are behind in Quebec like the CPC is in Ontario, I'll agree to that. However Dion is behind in his own riding now which is quite a development.

Yes, yes, yes you're right on the last bit, I just looked it up.

I'm not infallible here, only the voice of reason and common sense...hehe.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Qwerty

[jdobbin]

Obviously. How can people in Jean Chretien's office send hundreds of millions of dollars without even Paul Martin knowing? He was the Finance Minister don't you know.

You are letting your own partisanship show. Did you not read Gomery?

Ontario is an urban union province. The rural areas are mostly blue and will most likely remain that way.

That isn't good for Tories that need to win many more seats in Ontario than they have now. Those seats are in Toronto. They are way back in Ontario support now.

The Liberals are behind in Quebec like the CPC is in Ontario, I'll agree to that. However Dion is behind in his own riding now which is quite a development.

Your wrong. Dion's seat is one of the safest in Quebec. Please show me the cite where he is behind in his own riding.

[Qwerty]

You are letting your own partisanship show. Did you not read Gomery?

That isn't good for Tories that need to win many more seats in Ontario than they have now. Those seats are in Toronto. They are way back in Ontario support now.

Your wrong. Dion's seat is one of the safest in Quebec. Please show me the cite where he is behind in his own riding.

"But when you drill down inside those numbers, they're awful for (Liberal Leader Stephane) Dion," McDonald said.

For francophones, who comprise about 85 per cent of Quebec voters, support breaks down this way:

* Bloc: 35 per cent

* Tories: 30 per cent

* Liberals, NDP: Tied at 15 per cent

A key region is Quebec City, the so-called 418 region. The news for the Liberals there is even worse:

* Tories: 41 per cent

* Bloc: 25 per cent

* NDP: 17 per cent

* Liberals: 14 per cent

"Quebec City is Mr. Dion's home town. He's in fourth place in his home town," McDonald said. "A leader without a base is like a prophet without a homeland."

Full Story

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/prin...bhub=PrintStory

Yes it would be nice to infiltrate fortress Toronto but it doesn't seem possible without the CPC selling its soul. Hopefully the gain the CPC makes in Quebec will be enough for a majority. Perhaps some seats on the outer edge may be snipable but to take any seats in the core is out of the question so why waste time and money on it.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Qwerty

[jdobbin]

"But when you drill down inside those numbers, they're awful for (Liberal Leader Stephane) Dion," McDonald said.

For francophones, who comprise about 85 per cent of Quebec voters, support breaks down this way:

* Bloc: 35 per cent

* Tories: 30 per cent

* Liberals, NDP: Tied at 15 per cent

A key region is Quebec City, the so-called 418 region. The news for the Liberals there is even worse:

* Tories: 41 per cent

* Bloc: 25 per cent

* NDP: 17 per cent

* Liberals: 14 per cent

"Quebec City is Mr. Dion's home town. He's in fourth place in his home town," McDonald said. "A leader without a base is like a prophet without a homeland."

Your poll is from the end of March.

Here are the polls from April 13.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...bLrMbPSheJJfM9w

A new poll suggests women are making waves in voting intention, sweeping the Liberals into a slight lead over the Conservatives.

The Canadian Press Harris-Decima Poll put Liberal support at 33 per cent, compared to 30 per cent for the Tories nationally. The Liberals led the Conservatives in Ontario, Quebec, Atlantic Canada and B.C.

You'll note the part where it says the Liberals lead in Quebec.

Here is a poll out the same day.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...14?hub=Politics

However, in Quebec, the Liberals continue to trail far behind the Tories. The latest poll suggests every party except for the NDP has bled support to the Conservatives (percentage-point change from a March 13-16 poll in brackets):

* Bloc Quebecois: 36 per cent (-5)

* Conservatives: 27 per cent (+7)

* Liberals: 20 per cent (-3)

* Green Party: 10 per cent (-1)

* NDP: 7 per cent (+1)

The Liberals are third in this poll.

By the way, Quebec City is not the city where Dion has a seat in the House. His seat is one of the safest seats in Quebec and he has thrashed the BQ repeatedly.

Edited April 23, 2008 by jdobbin

[Qwerty]

Hrm 3% is basically a dead heat.

Yeah I knew Dion's seat is Cartierville riding but I thought I'd try to slip it in since the article mentioned it.

Everyone is going down in Quebec, those voters are swinging to the Tories. However those voters are very fragile and can swing back at any moment and the Tories need to be careful. Same with the whole province really, one fail slip and those voters will go back to the Liberals imho anyhow. It isn't like out west where the Tories could burn down Calgary city hall and they'd still vote CPC.

The Liberal brand is definately damaged in Quebec and that is where the CPC can make the most inroads. peple are sick of the BQ's ineffectiveness and the Liberal constant bungling.

[jdobbin]

Hrm 3% is basically a dead heat.

Never said it wasn't. However, it means the Tories are no where near majority support.

Yeah I knew Dion's seat is Cartierville riding but I thought I'd try to slip it in since the article mentioned it.

I wonder how high Harper rates in his hometown. Total misdirection to ask that question.

Everyone is going down in Quebec, those voters are swinging to the Tories. However those voters are very fragile and can swing back at any moment and the Tories need to be careful. Same with the whole province really, one fail slip and those voters will go back to the Liberals imho anyhow. It isn't like out west where the Tories could burn down Calgary city hall and they'd still vote CPC.

Which is why I keep saying that Harper can't win anymore seats in Alberta and only one more in Saskatchewan. He needs to convince urban areas of Ontario and win big in Quebec. Seems to me that there are too many strong seats left for the BQ and Liberals to see huge inroads in that province.

The Liberal brand is definately damaged in Quebec and that is where the CPC can make the most inroads. peple are sick of the BQ's ineffectiveness and the Liberal constant bungling.

I keep hearing that the BQ is dying. We should know better by now.

[Qwerty]

The only thing I could find was from the last election he took 72.36% of the vote 41,549 votes. He can steal candy from a baby and get re-elected.

I guess that's why they call it "Battlefield Ontario" or whatever that slogan the media was using.

The BQ will probably never die just go through periods of flux like now, I am guessing.

Unless some miracle breakthrough in Ontario it will probably be another minority for Harper. Election in winter 2009 most likely imho.

I wonder how many more skeletons will be dragged out of the closet with the Adscam debacle. Seems like it is a nightmare that won't go away for the Liberals.

[Shakeyhands]

The only thing I could find was from the last election he took 72.36% of the vote 41,549 votes. He can steal candy from a baby and get re-elected

You know... I can actually see him doing that

I wonder how many more skeletons will be dragged out of the closet with the Adscam debacle. Seems like it is a nightmare that won't go away for the Liberals.

For sure, we seem to hear about it more and more with every Tory screw up and scheme thats uncovered!

[Qwerty]

For sure, we seem to hear about it more and more with every Tory screw up and scheme thats uncovered!

There is a huge difference. The Tories weren't hiding anything but following what they believed to be creative accounting practices. They thought they were within the rules as they were interpreted to them.

The Liberals were hiding something, money and scandal. They knew what they were doing was wrong but defrauded the public coffers anyway and they got caught.

[Fortunata]

There is a huge difference. The Tories weren't hiding anything but following what they believed to be creative accounting practices. They thought they were within the rules as they were interpreted to them.

The Liberals were hiding something, money and scandal. They knew what they were doing was wrong but defrauded the public coffers anyway and they got caught.

Really?

According to a sworn affidavit, executives with Retail Media Inc., the Toronto "media buying" firm for the Conservatives, balked when investigators showed them an invoice on the company's letterhead.

The executives "didn't recognize" the invoice, similar to that filed by about 15 Conservative candidates among 67 from the 2006 election seeking more than $825,000 in taxpayer-funded rebates.

Marilyn Dixon, chief operating officer, suggested the invoice "must have been altered or created by someone" because they didn't look like the ones her firm submitted to the Conservative Party of Canada.

http://www.thestar.com/article/416912

If they were on the up and up, why change/alter/forge an invoice? If they weren't hiding something why the trickery?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, smells fishy to me.

[Qwerty]

Yes more Rae Days. I want Canada to really turn into a third world cesspool. Then Canada can look like some sh thiole that those immigrants came from. We'd really be making strides towards multiculturalism. Making them feel at home. That's our goal as Canadians. To make ourselves feel guilty and make immigrants feel good....makes ense to me lets all vote Liberal or NDP next election.

[Shakeyhands]

Yes more Rae Days. I want Canada to really turn into a third world cesspool. Then Canada can look like some sh thiole that those immigrants came from. We'd really be making strides towards multiculturalism. Making them feel at home. That's our goal as Canadians. To make ourselves feel guilty and make immigrants feel good....makes ense to me lets all vote Liberal or NDP next election.

What immigrants? What are you talking about. If you are frustrated by the lack of ethics in your party I can understand, but please don't be a troll and fill this board with nonsense.

[Qwerty]

What immigrants? What are you talking about. If you are frustrated by the lack of ethics in your party I can understand, but please don't be a troll and fill this board with nonsense.

I love how the media and the Liberals are trying to hype this thing against the CPC up so much. Just so they can say... see look, they are as corrupt as we are. Now vote us back in so we can go back to stealing your money...

[jdobbin]

I love how the media and the Liberals are trying to hype this thing against the CPC up so much. Just so they can say... see look, they are as corrupt as we are. Now vote us back in so we can go back to stealing your money...

That doesn't answer the question of which immigrants you think should be sent back and why. It seems that you don't even have to ply a Tory with alcohol to get them to make anti-immigrant comments.