Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[cybercoma]

No one can be oppressed unless they allow it.

And women who are raped shouldn't have been wearing such revealing clothing. Don't blame the victim here.

[JerrySeinfeld]

And women who are raped shouldn't have been wearing such revealing clothing. Don't blame the victim here.

Interesting you would bring that up. Here's a nice little quote from a prominent muslim leader in Australia, referring to an "unfair" sentence handed down to four gang-rape lebanese men:

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

Link to entire story.

[JerrySeinfeld]

And if one was to tabulate the violence in Canada I'm sure muslim victims would be in the extreme minority. If you want to reduce the violence, concentrating all your efforts on one small community would be a tragic waste of time and energy.

Oh really? The reason we have these marches every December 6th is to commemorate the montreal massacre - perpetrated by Gamil Gharbi - son of a muslim wife beater.

[M.Dancer]

Oh really? The reason we have these marches every December 6th is to commemorate the montreal massacre - perpetrated by Gamil Gharbi - son of a muslim wife beater.

And you think that is why he hated women...cause his mother was beaten?

...and do you think this memorial, is it becasue his father was a muslim?

As usual, your reasoning is flawed, but none the less...incidents involving muslims are not the norm.

According to stats can, 58,486 sought shelter from abuse in the 2003-4 period. Would you say that the vast majority are muslim or not muslim?

198 women were murdered in 2004. Would you say the perpetrators were more likely to be muslim or non muslim?

[JB Globe]

However, the difference arises when a pattern emerges - ie. muslim men killing women in their family based upon their MUSLIM religious ideals.

In family murder cases Religious beliefs are always red herrings - someone who is mentally unstable / abusive enough to murder a family member will use whatever means at their disposal to rationalize that the act they're committing is justified. That may take the form of "my daughter doesn't obey my curfew, she's disobedient, I'm going to kill her!" or "my daughter won't wear a hijab, she's disobedient, I'm going to kill her!" (note: the murder of a spouse or child is one of the worst crimes a Muslim can commit) But regardless, the enabling device isn't the "justification" the murderer chooses - it's the fact that they are mentally unstable or have a history of violent behavior and abuse and haven't been treated for either.

[JerrySeinfeld]

And women who are raped shouldn't have been wearing such revealing clothing. Don't blame the victim here.

Interesting you would bring that up. Here's a nice little quote from a prominent muslim leader in Australia, referring to an "unfair" sentence handed down to four gang-rape lebanese men:

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

Link to the story

[M.Dancer]

Interesting you would bring that up. Here's a nice little quote from a prominent muslim leader in Australia, referring to an "unfair" sentence handed down to four gang-rape lebanese men:

Link to the story

You posted that already

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....st&p=363176

[JB Globe]

1. Honour Killing is a distinctly muslim phenomenon which is related to the more devout aspects of that religion's oppression of women.

Than why do "honour killings" occur in Sikh & Hindu households as well?

Maybe it's (GASP!) a cultural phenomenon, and not a religious one. That might explain why all of the examples you found were of people of South Asian descent.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Oh. Well the silence was deafening.

Let's test the silence on

How can you not condemn this? It's sick - your loyalty to "tolerance at all costs" trumps the safety of women?

Disgusting.

[M.Dancer]

Than why do "honour killings" occur in Sikh & Hindu households as well?

Maybe it's (GASP!) a cultural phenomenon, and not a religious one. That might explain why all of the examples you found were of people of South Asian descent.

It was only relatively recently that Italy changed the law there about honour killings....these being done by Catholic men or women against ther spouse for infidility.

[JB Globe]

Once again . . . a white man in Edmonton murdered his entire family and committed suicide . . . an elderly white couple in Red Deer were killed in a murder suicide . . . A year ago in BC with a Korean father killed his family before killing himself . . .

Since most people don't care about family-murders until Islam is involved, they don't catalogue these incidents the same way they do if the murderer happens to be Muslim - as a result most people are completely unaware that unfortunately these incidents are common, and happen regularly amongst pretty much all ethnic and religious groups in Canada.

[M.Dancer]

Oh. Well the silence was deafening.

Let's test the silence on

How can you not condemn this? It's sick - your loyalty to "tolerance at all costs" trumps the safety of women?

Disgusting.

You are right, it is disgusting. But to give it more than its due is a waste of band width.

according to this survey, it would seem that Muslims are the extreme minoirty in Canada in regards to domestic violence

Language spoken at home

• English 771 (%79)

• French 189 (19)

• Other 20 (2)

http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2004/Jan/vol50-jan-research-2.asp

[guyser]

Since most people don't care about family-murders until Islam is involved,

Most people arent jerry. Thats his schtick.

they don't catalogue these incidents the same way they do if the murderer happens to be Muslim - as a result most people are completely unaware that unfortunately these incidents are common, and happen regularly amongst pretty much all ethnic and religious groups in Canada.

Ahh but when they research it they ignore all else and focus on the muslim only.

Its pretty obvious he has an agenda against muslims at the expense of all other types of violence against women.

If he had smarts, he would edit his posts, but instead he only wants us to answer, without so much as the same himself.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Most people arent jerry. Thats his schtick.

Ahh but when they research it they ignore all else and focus on the muslim only.

Its pretty obvious he has an agenda against muslims at the expense of all other types of violence against women.

If he had smarts, he would edit his posts, but instead he only wants us to answer, without so much as the same himself.

Wrong. I'm pointing out an identifiable cause: Fundamentalist Islamic Beliefs.

If there are other identifiable causes - such as alcohol use for example, then it is valuable to bring those into the discussion as well.

What ISN'T valuable is to ignore identifiable causes. In fact, it's destructive and ignorant.

Suppose someone were to start a post about men who abuse alcohol and it's effect upon domestic violence.

Wouldn't it be absurd to stand up on your high horse and pronounce that "we shouldn't be singling out men who abuse alcohol"?

Of COURSE we should. We should single out any group or root cause of abuse. If the fundamentalist islamic faith has a deep rooted history of accepted violence against women, that's not my fault. Your pointing the finger in the wrong direction. As per usual.

[M.Dancer]

Wrong. I'm pointing out an identifiable cause: Fundamentalist Islamic Beliefs.

Great...that should account for at least .02% of the incidents....lets go crazy then

BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS BAD MUSLIMS

[M.Dancer]

Suppose someone were to start a post about men who abuse alcohol and it's effect upon domestic violence.

Wouldn't it be absurd to stand up on your high horse and pronounce that "we shouldn't be singling out men who abuse alcohol"?

No need to single out men, both sexes are involved. Biut to the point, 29% of victims reported alcohol as a factor.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-224-x/85-2...2005000-eng.pdf

So that would be what....28.9% more relevant than your grave concern?

...go ahead...a have a drink and think about it.

[guyser]

dancer said it best.You've been schooled on this one

Wrong. I'm pointing out an identifiable cause: Fundamentalist Islamic Beliefs.

Great, got anything to say about the other 99.9888888888% of the causes?

Why the focus on only one segment....oh yeah I remember now.

If there are other identifiable causes - such as alcohol use for example, then it is valuable to bring those into the discussion as well.

What ISN'T valuable is to ignore identifiable causes. In fact, it's destructive and ignorant.

Suppose someone were to start a post about men who abuse alcohol and it's effect upon domestic violence.

Wouldn't it be absurd to stand up on your high horse and pronounce that "we shouldn't be singling out men who abuse alcohol"?

No jerry it wouldnt. That you think so is funny, since it is exactly the opposite of your debate.

Your debate would be " men who drink absinthe whilst standing on one leg under mistle toe" (read Muslim) are the prime source of violence against women.

And I would counter that alcoholics are a prime source of the violence.Not just those one legged absinthe drinkers.

Of COURSE we should. We should single out any group or root cause of abuse.

But of course you wont, nor want to, since it is not your agenda to do so. Your agenda is to bash muslims.Why fight that jerry, it is so obvious.

If the fundamentalist islamic faith has a deep rooted history of accepted violence against women, that's not my fault. Your pointing the finger in the wrong direction. As per usual.

Go ahead and laugh jerry, first sign of a fool.

[M.Dancer]

29% of domestic violence victims cite alcohol

Observant muslims don't drink alcohol.....

[JerrySeinfeld]

Your debate would be " men who drink absinthe whilst standing on one leg under mistle toe" (read Muslim) are the prime source of violence against women.

That's a strawman fallacy. I never once said muslims are "the prime source of violence against women".

You're missing my argument completely and trying to whitewash your error with accusations that my "goal is to bash muslims".

My "goal", or rather, POINT, is that you are choosing to ignore a very real and growing concern about violence against women in this and other western countries.

For the umpteenth time, this isn't about muslims so much as it is about you.

The question isn't: "why is Jerry pointing out that there is a rising and growing issue in western countries concerning domestic violence against women"

It is: "why would a bunch of left wing politically-correct junkies choose to ignore and downplay it?"

[M.Dancer]

It is: "why would a bunch of left wing politically-correct junkies choose to ignore and downplay it?"

No one has downplayed it...just that you are the only one up playing it.

[JerrySeinfeld]

No one has downplayed it...just that you are the only one up playing it.

Well, maybe you should read the title of this thread if you think that.

OK, so since you're not downplaying it, we can agree that this is a growing problem in the west and that it should be talked about and condemned by our society as something that is unacceptable in THIS culture?

Speaking of up-playing small percentages, I'm on board with you guys!

No more talk of trying to solve HIV/AIDS or reducing Canada's miniscule percentage of global carbon emissions then, ok?

[guyser]

I never once said muslims are "the prime source of violence against women".

You may not have. But I shall give you sometime, you likely will.

But you did say this didnt you?

1. Honour Killing is a distinctly muslim phenomenon

We all know it isnt, but you havent retracted that statement so why not start there?

Your whole premise is to bash muslims, of that there is no doubt.

You're missing my argument completely and trying to whitewash your error with accusations that my "goal is to bash muslims".

Sorry jerry, it is all in black and white for all to read. I will admit any error I make,but in this case the whitewash is yours. so many people have taken issue with your diatribe, it is understandable that you want to move the goalposts.

My "goal", or rather, POINT, is that you are choosing to ignore a very real and growing concern about violence against women in this and other western countries.

For the umpteenth time, this isn't about muslims so much as it is about you.

Right !

About me? Now you are plain nuts.

A" very real and growing concern" is not .02% of the pop.

The question isn't: "why is Jerry pointing out that there is a rising and growing issue in western countries concerning domestic violence against women"

Too funny jerry, that is the question, and here you are saying it isnt !

It is: "why would a bunch of left wing politically-correct junkies choose to ignore and downplay it?"

I dont know jerry, not being a left wing pc junkie, I cant answer.

jerry, your whole premise was wrong when you started, and it only gets worse.

Lose the muslim bashing attitude and blame , and work up from there. Domestic violence is caused by numerous factors.

Booze

drugs

poverty

mental depression

anger mismanagement

stress

and in rare cases, religion

[guyser]

No more talk of trying to solve HIV/AIDS or reducing Canada's miniscule percentage of global carbon emissions then, ok?

2300 new cases of HIV-AIDS in Canada in 2007.

I doubt it.

[JerrySeinfeld]

2300 new cases of HIV-AIDS in Canada in 2007.

I doubt it.

Total AIDs population in Canada: less than 1%

Canada's total contribution to carbon emissions: less than 1%

[JerrySeinfeld]

and in rare cases, religion

Violence against women is a MAJOR problem in countries with Islamic theocracies.

Do we really want to import that kind of thinking by "tolerating" men who strangle their own daughters because the Koran says it's ok?