jbg Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 I support Musharraf. Their politics are religious and full of smoke, mirrors, and 5 hour long lessons of complexitities. Musharraf knows what these groups are trying to do and he's stopping it. If it wasn't for Musharraf, the Islamists would have been in power long ago. I don't give 2 damsn about Pakistan and their people though. What makes me not reflexively agree with you (and who the h*** really knows what's going on there) is the role of the lawyers (link). One would think that they know that an Islamist victory is not a victory for the "rule of law". I don't think Musharaff is as much an ally of the West as you'd like to think. He did not hand Pearl's killers over to US authorities, for example. I think he sees the West as a golden goose filling up his Swiss bank account. Unlike other Muslim countries, this one has an educated middle class, a British heritage of democracy and in the areas bordering India a real economy. I happen to like Bhutto. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
wolfd Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 A place that beats up and throws lawyers in jail can't be all bad! Quote
jbg Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 A place that beats up and throws lawyers in jail can't be all bad!Hey, that's not funny. What do you have against me? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 I happen to like Bhutto. Speaking of Bhutto, this Op-Ed just popped up (link): Op-Ed Contributor Musharraf’s Martial Plan By BENAZIR BHUTTO Published: November 7, 2007 Islamabad, Pakistan NOV. 3, 2007, will be remembered as the blackest day in the history of Pakistan. Let us be perfectly clear: Pakistan is a military dictatorship. Last Saturday, Gen. Pervez Musharraf removed all pretense of a transition to democracy by conducting what was in effect yet another extraconstitutional coup. In doing so he endangered the viability of Pakistan as an independent state. He presented the country’s democratic forces with a tough decision — acquiesce to the brutality of the dictatorship or take over the streets and show the world where the people of Pakistan really stand. General Musharraf also presented the democratic world — and especially the countries of the West — with a question. Will they back up their democratic rhetoric with concrete action, or will they once again back down in the face of his bluff? In my view, General Musharraf’s ruling party understood that it would be trounced in any free elections and, together with its allies within the intelligence services, contrived to have the Constitution suspended and elections indefinitely postponed. Very conveniently, the assassination attempt against me last month that resulted in the deaths of at least 140 people is being used as the rationale to stop the democratic process by which my party would most likely have swept parliamentary elections. Maybe this explains why the government refuses to allow the F.B.I. and Scotland Yard to assist in a forensic investigation of the bombings. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Higgly Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) I would like to put in a word for the role of the Pakistan Supreme court in all of this. I was watching the BBC News last night and the reporter commented on how odd it was to see the streets filled with protestors wearing suits. This is not the first time a Supreme court has come to the rescue of democracy - it happened in the Ukraine a few years back as well. All of you Supreme Court haters out there, pay attention! Mikedavid00's opinion aside, most Pakistanis do not want a government run by Islamic clerics. They have had too many years of secular rule to put up with the nonsense that these guys put out. Unlike other countries such as Iran, Afghanistan, what have you, there is not currently a sufficiently large crisis to drive Pakistanis into the hands of the mullahs. Musharraf has been chided by Canadian and US leaders for not doing enough about Islamic fighters infiltrating into Afghanistan to the point where the Americans are openly talking about putting troops on the ground in Pakistan. If anything will drive Pakistanis into the hands of the Islamic clerics, that might. Joe Biden (US Senator, Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, 2008 Presidential candidate) believes that if Musharraf stays in power, the moderates will have little choice but to team up with the Islamic parties in order to get rid of him. I doubt that Musharraf is going to last... This would all just be another hill of beans were it not for the Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz idiocy in Iraq. That little misadventure is de-stabilizing the entire region and, as much as I hope I am wrong, this is beginning to look a bit like the Balkans just before the First World War. Edited November 7, 2007 by Higgly Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
jbg Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 This would all just be another hill of beans were it not for the Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz idiocy in Iraq. That little misadventure is de-stabilizing the entire region and, as much as I hope I am wrong, this is beginning to look a bit like the Balkans just before the First World War.No, Khomeni "destabilized" the region in 1979 by putting in the first theocracy, with Jimmy Carter's feckless indifference (at first). When the mullahs and secular tinpots such as Hussein got control over $100 oil (current real price equivalent of oil back then) the US was forced to act.The US and West are not at fault for everything. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
mikedavid00 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 What makes me not reflexively agree with you (and who the h*** really knows what's going on there) is the role of the lawyers (link). One would think that they know that an Islamist victory is not a victory for the "rule of law". I don't think Musharaff is as much an ally of the West as you'd like to think. He did not hand Pearl's killers over to US authorities, for example. I think he sees the West as a golden goose filling up his Swiss bank account. Unlike other Muslim countries, this one has an educated middle class, a British heritage of democracy and in the areas bordering India a real economy. I happen to like Bhutto. Part of the problem is there is what we think a lawyer is, and then what a lawyer is over there. Over there lawyers are primarily civil servants of a greater cast and are political figures. Have you seen some of the footage of the lawyers yelling and screeming on the streets like yahoo's? Do those look like lawyers to you? The suits are just smoke and mirrors again to fool the media. You can even tell by the lack of wear in the fabric that most of these suits seem to never have been warn before. I also noticed eveyrone fresh hair cuts. Again, it's all smoke and mirrors. 3rd world shananagans. I would fall for that kind of hype. The lawyers are being used as pawns to support the judges in ordre to get Musharraf out so they can better their own power structures. There were a dozen people here in Toronto that protested at the pakistani councellet. A dozen. The organizer is part of the Pakistan Muslim League of Canada. This is an Islamic based political party that held power in Pakistan. Here is a cabinet member: http://pakistanmuslimleague.info/beta/lead...pir_zakoori.jpg The people that want Musharraf out are people who feel he is weak to the US and are mainly idealogues who are anti-US and want to take his position of power. The protests even in Pakistan were reports of only 500 people at most. And that's IN pakistan. Remember that THOUSANDS of Pakistani's here in Canada rose up in support of Hezbollah during the protests. Where are they now? What's happening in Pakistan is smoke and mirrors and everyone is believing it. Musharraf would have been thrown out by minority political groups if he didn't call Marshall law so I can't figure out why people would want to take an ideological approach to the topic. Soon those politics will be coming to Canada. Give it another 25 years and you will begin to see the very same things happening here. The immigrants need much more time to get into our legal and court systems and establish their power bases and mess up the voting turn outs. Quote ---- Charles Anthony banned me for 30 days on April 28 for 'obnoxious libel' when I suggested Jack Layton took part in illegal activities in a message parlor. Claiming a politician took part in illegal activity is not rightful cause for banning and is what is discussed here almost daily in one capacity or another. This was really a brownshirt style censorship from a moderator on mapleleafweb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1oGB-BKdZg---
mikedavid00 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 Speaking of Bhutto, this Op-Ed just popped up (link): Op-Ed Contributor Musharraf’s Martial Plan By BENAZIR BHUTTO Published: November 7, 2007 Islamabad, Pakistan NOV. 3, 2007, will be remembered as the blackest day in the history of Pakistan. . But don't you see, she is part of the problem. SHE wants power when she has not been elected into office. Quote ---- Charles Anthony banned me for 30 days on April 28 for 'obnoxious libel' when I suggested Jack Layton took part in illegal activities in a message parlor. Claiming a politician took part in illegal activity is not rightful cause for banning and is what is discussed here almost daily in one capacity or another. This was really a brownshirt style censorship from a moderator on mapleleafweb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1oGB-BKdZg---
mikedavid00 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Posted November 7, 2007 I was watching the BBC News last night and the reporter commented on how odd it was to see the streets filled with protestors wearing suits. Yes exactly. It's a show for the world stage to watch. It's just an organized political effort. The judges were part of the porblem to oust him. He has been democratically elected. He cannot have political troublemakers quietly trying to throw him out of office. End of story. Quote ---- Charles Anthony banned me for 30 days on April 28 for 'obnoxious libel' when I suggested Jack Layton took part in illegal activities in a message parlor. Claiming a politician took part in illegal activity is not rightful cause for banning and is what is discussed here almost daily in one capacity or another. This was really a brownshirt style censorship from a moderator on mapleleafweb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1oGB-BKdZg---
Higgly Posted November 8, 2007 Report Posted November 8, 2007 No, Khomeni "destabilized" the region in 1979 by putting in the first theocracy, with Jimmy Carter's feckless indifference (at first). When the mullahs and secular tinpots such as Hussein got control over $100 oil (current real price equivalent of oil back then) the US was forced to act.The US and West are not at fault for everything. You want to play this game? Go back to Mossadegh. Read Fisk "The Great War for Civilisation". Khomeini was just a local actor. The US was forced to act? What for? So they could do what was best for them? What did that matter to some poor bugger who was having his arm sliced off one inch at a time in the basement of some Savak agent's home? Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
jbg Posted November 8, 2007 Report Posted November 8, 2007 The US was forced to act? What for? So they could do what was best for them? What did that matter to some poor bugger who was having his arm sliced off one inch at a time in the basement of some Savak agent's home?Savak was a Sunday school picnic compared to what's going on there now. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Higgly Posted November 9, 2007 Report Posted November 9, 2007 Savak was a Sunday school picnic compared to what's going on there now. Well if that is true, then we can expect that the Iranian people will do what they did to the Shah, right? Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
jbg Posted November 10, 2007 Report Posted November 10, 2007 Well if that is true, then we can expect that the Iranian people will do what they did to the Shah, right?Could well happen, in my opinion. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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