Gabriel

I know what I said. I meant what I said. What I did say was that I am unconvinced that enough of the Afghan population can be civilized. Perhaps I am too cynical, perhaps enough of them can see the light and join civilization by first BELIEVING in the values of freedom and democracy, and then implementing those values into robust institutions. Until then, I will sceptical of their ability to join the civilized world. Trial or evidence? This is a fucking war. We have soldiers over in Afghanistan, not detectives and lawyers. The four soldiers you speak of have already been through the court system. Three of them were convicted of first-degree murder (insanity, punishing them for killing the enemy). The flag I wear is a HUGE difference that you consistently ignore. The flag I wear represents freedom and democracy. Values protecting us from discrimination based on various personal grounds, allowing us to participate politically in a democratic system, protecting our rights to private property, and on and on and on. The flags of our enemies stand for religious extremism, oppression of women, rejection of education and modernity. Basically, the enemy represents BARBARISM. Fools like you draw a moral equivalence between Canada and the Taliban - nothing more ridiculous could be suggested. I stand by my position unapologetically - embrace the values we adhere to (which are NOT contextual as you propose, they are UNIVERSAL) or be destroyed. There is no negotiating with respect to freedom. 3 of the 4 soldiers were convicted of first-degree murder. Another example of extreme leftism punishing heroes. What are you even talking about?

Both are true. They hold some territories (towns, villages, etc) and also often live among the larger population. Spare me the patronizing request for a map that doesn't exist.

So you deny that Afghanistan is light-years behind Canada with respect to human rights - both institutionally and culturally? It's one thing to have human rights laws on the book, it's another for the citizens to believe these values in their hearts. You are a fool if you think the average Afghan citizen genuinely supports human rights values that we believe in strongly as Canadians. With respect to the political fallout, I see this event, if managed properly by the Conservatives, as being detrimental to Liberal and NDP support. It will not be too difficult to illustrate the truth about this issue - that the Liberals and NDP offer no alternatives to the dilemmas faced by the Canadian military with respect to how to deal with detainees. The absurd suggestion by terrorist-lovers among the NDP to have a public inquiry into how Afghan prisoners are treated in Afghanistan, in order to waste millions of dollars and political energy in order to conduct a smear campaign will not win any independents. All the left is doing is pandering to its extremist base. Whether or not you recognize the obvious, Canada DOES stand for human rights. Go travel around the world, see how other people live, and maybe you'll appreciate what this country offers and what it stands for. Your proposed "solutions" are nonsense. You also make no mention of the likelihood that Taliban detainees have much to gain by lying about their treatment. Why are we going nuts over the second-hand testimony of four Taliban to Colvin (a political hack, clearly a Liberal or NDP supporter)? Are there not much more pressing matters in this war to address? That being said, I'm sure Canada can do (and probably is doing) a thing or two to reduce the likelihood of prisoner abuse among detainees transferred to Afghan security forces. Let's not be naive, however, remember that Afghanistan is largely a barbaric and savage country. The barbaric and savage culture is a much more powerful influence on how prisoners will be treated than a few protocols for monitoring mechanisms designed to reduce the risk of abuse. Unless you have 24/7 monitoring with security cameras on every square inch of Afghan detainment facilities, you won't be able to guarantee unequivocally that abuse of prisoners isn't taking place. Frankly, I don't really give a shit anyways! I'm concerned about the safety of our men and women. What of the good that Canada and our allies are doing in Afghanistan? From providing security to certain segments of the Afghan population from the Taliban and other vicious terrorists, to assisting the development of the civilian infrastructure, and everything in between, you make no mention of these efforts that build goodwill? You'd prefer to rant on and on about how allegations of abuse override all efforts to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan, because that way you can smear the Conservative government. Do you actually think the Afghan population wants Canadian troops out? You think the Afghan population would prefer to be left at the mercy of the Taliban and other terrorist groups? Those questions weren't worth responding to. "Degrees of Taliban"? Are you kidding me? Spare me the Fareed Zakaria-esque nuances. If you're an Islamic fundamentalist, you should be destroyed. Our weakness is what permits them to continue on existing - we fight with both of our hands tied behind our backs. Our tolerance of Taliban presence in the Karzai government is another example of extreme leftism in action.

What the hell are you talking about? I was agreeing with Argus. You're messed up, Oleg.

Since when are towns synonymous with a race or ethnic group of people? Are you not aware that the Taliban and other terrorist groups are in control of various towns and villages? How are you unable to recognize that the Taliban do not constitute some race or ethnic group of persons? The destruction of the Taliban, its supporters and all similar terrorist groups and fundamentalists does not constitute genocide. EDIT - What's next? The destruction of Al Qaeda towns, villages, and caves will be equated with genocide? What about the fundamentalists in Pakistan who are murdering people every day with suicide bombs? Are they now a protected race or ethnic group whose destruction would be viewed as genocide?

Yes, I sure do have a lot in common with the Taliban - I support freedom of speech, freedom of association, protection from discrimination based on gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, sexual orientation, etc. I am in favour of democracy and rights to own private property. I believe education is the great equalizer and support appropriate multiculturalism. I wish destruction upon those who stand against these values. You nailed me! I'm still waiting for you to show me a post where I advocated genocide. in your demented mind, however, my desires to destroy the Taliban and all those who would attack the fundamental values that I believe in listed above is synonymous with genocide. In your mind, the Taliban and other terrorist groups constitute a nation or race or people. Perhaps also in your demented mind, you are unable to differentiate between the Taliban and the whole Afghan population. Who's the racist, now? You are a twisted person.

:lol:

I was sickened by his parentheses... that our morality is only valid on our side of the Atlantic Ocean. As if equality for men and women, democracy, private property, protection from discrimination based on religion, race, ethnicity, age, sexual orientation, political affiliation, etc, etc... are values that are only REAL over on our side. How sick is myata? What a coward he is to be afraid to stand up for these NON-CONTROVERSIAL values. In order not to offend terrorists, he makes a point to indicate that these values are relevant only to us. Unbelievable.

Who do you think I'm talking about in that statement? It's painful that in 2009 there are so many extremists like you who refuse to discern between the enemy and civilians. Clearly not every Afghani needs to be destroyed (I shouldn't have to even say that, but apparently people like you need clarification!). The Taliban and other extremist tribes who practise barbarism and savagery do need to be annihilated, however. I'm not sure why that's so offensive to your sensibilities. Actually... I do know why - you're a terrorist supporter.

Show me ONE INSTANCE where I advocated genocide. Or you can continue on lying about my statements. I love how my desire to have our side destroy terrorists gets convoluted in your mind as being an endorsement of genocide.

I know! I'm well aware that you're on the right side of these issues.

How do you know there aren't any monitoring mechanisms in place, already? What if the monitoring mechanisms don't work? Are you going to have full-time observers on-site? Are you going to install cameras all around the detainment facilities? What if it all fails? Do we then release the detainees? It's AFGHANISTAN! It isn't some country with a strong tradition of human rights. This is a product of their culture. It can't be undone overnight. Stop being so naive (or dishonest). The fact that you use quotes when discussing our moral superiority speaks volumes to your absurdity. As if Canada isn't light-years beyond the barbaric and savage country that is Afghanistan. In your view, obviously morality is in the eye of the beholder.

I really do not want to get into a history discussion in this thread, but until the enemy surrendered (something unlikely to happen in this war), it was no-holds-barred wanton destruction of the enemy. it was annihilation. Nowadays, we send our troops in to do hand-to-hand combat, going house to house and not attacking until being attacked, it is insanity. I am well aware of the many "disappearing" Nazis after the war, the many companies that are still around today that cooperated with the Nazis knowing exactly what they were up to, etc. We're getting sidetracked from my original point - that it isn't evil to destroy evil. Killing the enemy doesn't make us animals - as Toad Brother would have us believe.

Why not put that in the context of how many Nazis and Nazi supporters were killed? Many many more millions.

Here's a question for the critics of the government grandstanding as human rights advocates - what would you have had the Canadian military do differently with detainees? What is the alternative to handing the detainees over to the Afghan security forces? It's not as if there are competing security companies in Afghanistan. Do no compare this to a Canadian being unhappy with his/her cellular service provider and moving to another company. I have yet to hear ONE left-wing extremist address this problem (Colvin himself didn't address this fundamental problem). What would you have had the Canadian forces do with the detainees? Of course the left-wing extremists would prefer that these detainees in order to be given another chance to murder Canadian troops, our allies, and Afghani civilians. At least that way we can maintain our moral superiority. Let me point out one more RIDICULOUS assertion that is constantly being made by the extremists on the left - that somehow incidents such as this reduce us to the moral depravity of our enemies. How can anyone ever suggest, with a straight face, that one questionable incident reduces us to the level of the Taliban? Even a hundred incidents of torture doesn't come even close to justifying a comparison between us and the animals that are our enemies.

I can tell you're incapable of understanding the real problems at hand. Good luck with your paper.

I don't care who was here first. They need to integrate. Stop suggesting insane ideas like they live in some sort of internal parallel state within Canada. You want to segregate, I want to integrate. There is nothing wrong with Canadian culture, we have a fantastic standard of living, countless amazing cultures living in harmony (for the most part), top-quality education, maximum freedoms on all dimensions... what's not to like? Aboriginals WANT to integrate, it is the segregation that you support that perpetuates these problems. You support an apartheid, at the Canadian taxpayer's expense, of course. Allow them to participate in the political process like all other cultures do. INTEGRATION WAS NEVER A POLICY OF THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT! Stop fucking lying about that. Since day one Aboriginals have been kept OUT of mainstream Canada. I agree with you on one thing - the Canadian government is largely to blame. Establishing policies that recognize special status and privileges for Aboriginals were critical mistakes. From these massive errors came the rest of the disastrous policies that perpetuated the problem, giving endless handouts to Aboriginals and treating them differently - teaching them that they are incapable of integration (an opinion you share) and that they will eternally be dependent on the Canadian government. Whatever laws or treaties were signed many years ago were massive errors. They have contributed to our current problem. As long as we legally treat Aboriginals as some special group that depends on handouts, we will perpetuate their underperformance in Canada. I want them to integrate into Canadian society and fulfil their potential and enjoy the life and freedoms and lifestyles that so many of us Canadians are blessed to have access to. And yes, you are absolutely an extremist.

There is still a lot of beautiful land in Canada for them to be able to practise their culture, to some degree. As I said earlier, their rights to practise their culture doesn't trump Canadian law. So within the bounds of the law, they can practise their culture freely. We have SO many naturally beautiful places (tons of national parks, for example) in Canada where they can practise many of their cultural traditions if they so desire. None of this overrides my main argument - that integration will benefit everyone. They will upgrade themselves by taking advantage of all Canada has to offer, and Canada will benefit by integrating a group of people who have so much to offer and contribute. Win win win. Of course, extremists on the left would prefer to perpetuate the status quo, the only difference being allowing the current system to bleed even more money from the Canadian economy to perpetuate the victimhood of Aboriginals.

I never said the reserves would a great place to live. But since when in anyone OWED a quality life? Like all other Canadians, Aboriginals must earn their keep. If not, they're welcome to go to their local homeless shelters. This babysitting of the Aboriginals is what's contributing to their hardship. As long as they depend on someone else to take care of them, believing the lies that they are victims and thinking of themselves as less capable, they will continue to underperform. Don't think I haven't noticed that you've ignored the point that countless other cultures have come to Canada and integrated and thrived within the Canadian fabric. Cultural preservation of minorities isn't the responsibility of the government, and Aboriginals are entirely free to educate themselves on their own culture(s) and practise those aspects of their culture(s) that are compatible with Canadian laws and values. It is clear that perspectives like yours, TrueMetis, are largely responsible for the hardships that are experienced by the Aboriginals of Canada. I know you cannot realize it, but the perspectives that you espouse on this issue are the greatest threat to Aboriginals in Canada. Your perspectives and policies formed from such absurd views perpetuate these problems. I support Aboriginal integration into mainstream Canada. Abolish the reserves. Abolish all laws that treat Aboriginals differently from other Canadians. Get them off this social life-support system that perpetuates their hardships. You, on the other hand, support more victimization policies. More money, more bureaucracy, more dependence. Teach a man to fish or give a man a fish, at its most basic level. Lastly, Aboriginals have never been pushed into mainstream Canadian society. They're always been segregated (a policy you support) and kept apart from all other Canadians under the guise of them "preserving their culture". We all know that culture can be preserved in Canada. What culture on the reservations is worth maintaining? Drug abuse? Alcoholism? Crime? Poor education? Unemployment? Hopelessness? Canada is a land of opportunity, and we need to open the door to these opportunities to all Canadians, including Aboriginals. We need to shut down the reserves and reserve all segregationist laws. When they integrate, as all other cultures have in Canada, they will thrive. One last point, you can't seriously think that Aboriginals have any possibility of "reclaiming their land", do you? I mean, that is BEYOND absurd. I'll close by saying I have little intention of carrying on this discussion with an extremist such as yourself. It's not like I'm going to learn anything from you. You are, whether you realize it or no, the enemy of the Aboriginals. if you had your way the same cycle of underperformance among Aboriginals would continue, with you blaming the white man and the Canadian government. rad79 - Do the right thing and tell the truth. Or, drop all of your integrity and perpetuate the lie that Aboriginals simply don't have the tools to succeed in Canada. Perpetuate the lie that is unending victimization and reject the concept of self-reliance and self-responsibility.

Just a little update - I'm having trouble getting my posts approved, again. The left-wing CBC moderators are out in full force! I'm trying to comment on an article discussing the whole Colvin-Afgan prisoner abuse testimony, but unsurprisingly, my posts are never approved. Just perusing through the approved comments, about 90% are anti-Conservative and anti-Harper and pro-Colvin, while 10% seem to be light scepticism of Colvin's allegations. The CBC is so pathetic.

rad79 - Why don't you go against the left-wing grain of university and tell the truth about Aboriginal underperformance in Canada? Ask yourself why so many varying cultures from around the world have come to Canada and thrived, yet many aboriginals are underperformed - they are overrepresented in crime, poverty, alcoholism, drug abuse, and high-school drop out rates (and virtually everything else bad). Perhaps it because we have taken a ridiculous approach in Canada by giving them this semi-parallel system in which to live while bleeding our country out of countless dollars over many decades. Why are Aboriginals permitted to live on reserves? They should live like all other Canadians do throughout Canada. Why are they given strange privileges above other Canadians? The policies of treating Aboriginals as some sort of special people with special rights is the biggest contributing factor their destruction. They need to be pushed into mainstream Canada, into our schools, into our communities, into our politics and not forced to perpetually sit on the sidelines with their hands out leeching off the Canadian economy. This perpetual culture of victimization is the greatest tragedy of all - we keep spinning this myth that Aboriginals are disadvantages people who need more and more help. This breeds a culture of dependence and underperformance. Again, almost all other cultures have successfully integrated into Canada and thrived. Aboriginals can do the same. It's time for us to stop looking at them as some sort of charity case and let them into our country to really reach their potential. After so many decades, blaming the government or the "white man" or outside forces gets old. This country is abundant in opportunities - everybody's got a shot at success. Challenge yourself to look for the truth.

Great post. In all seriousness, though, terrorist supporters like naomi actually blame the West for contemporary terrorism that is rooted in fundamentalist Islam. It's important not to lose sight of who you're talking to. Even when the reality that you've just clearly explained is thrown in the face of terrorist supporters like naomi, they resort to arguments that justify terrorism as some sort of natural response to historical wrongs that have been inflicted upon Muslim/Arab populations by what is perceived as Western imperialism. Again, in naomi's perverted perspective, terrorism is our fault. I'll reiterate that you did a great job of concisely illustrating one of the major problems we face when combating such a despicable enemy that violates all laws and conventions of conflict. As you've implied, naomi and other terrorist supporters would seem to prefer that we continue to be murdered and victimized while paralyzed by laws and regulations in order to cling to some sense of moral superiority.

According to eyeball, extremist Islamic terrorism is a natural response to Western imperialism in the Middle East. In other words, it's all our fault.

Great questions, capricorn. I'm certain that a careful review of his statements and allegations will reveal many unanswerable questions and unprovable allegations. I don't trust this guy on bit. Hopefully most or all of his statements/allegations will be destroyed by opponents with the courage to go after him with everything they've got. Destroy his arguments, his reputation, and his career. He is quite simply a traitor to Canada advancing his own interests above the national good while masquerading as a champion of human rights.

What "entire people" am I talking about annihilating? What do you propose we do with extremists like the Taliban rather than exterminate them? You said I was the same as the enemy. You said it several times. I had to spoonfeed you just how stupid your statements were before you began to backtrack a little... There is no alternative solution to those groups who openly state their intentions. They make so secret of their desires and intentions. You, however, prefer to put your head in the sand and pretend that these subhumans aren't out there with their sickening machinations and crimes. The stupidity from you in non-stop! Did you really just say that these animals are like me? Say it again - tell me these animals are just like us. I will no longer respond to any of your posts. I've been learning about WWII since I was a young child, thank you very much. Having many remaining Nazis post-WWII is hardly the same as their numbers during their peak. They were largely exterminated. Regardless, have fun doing whatever it is you do. I'm done exchanging posts with you.