bjre
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Posts posted by bjre
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Anyway, I haven't noticed anywhere in your anti-CAS comments where you offer your solution to the problem, other than leave them with the parents to be murdered. What is your solution?
I did it in another thread: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....&pid=392043
I don't know enough about CAS to know. It may be with CAS that the execution is poor, however the intent is nobel. Are you against protecting the rights of children from parents who abuse those rights?If not, please explain how you intend to protect those kids if you cut or eliminate CAS.
1. I think most parent that said to be abusive loves their kids. Some just for education, others may just happen to not control themselves very well just like drive after drinking. Those are simply accidents. They are not intentionally abuse their kids.
However, once kids are put into "in care" system, they become really under an environment that near the worst small part of the society that full of real abuse, ignorance, lies, criminal, violence, drugs. That will definitely change the whole life of the kids.
We need to study.
We already have the statistics said only 24% kids under such system can graduate from high school.
Did anyone do some study on if a group of kids that are reported abused, after that, CAS and police and the court system do nothing, how many can graduated from high school even college, how many be killed, how many suicide? How many becomes criminals. Although these is no statistics now, I think we can compare this with a country that has no so strick CAS, such as Japan, Korea, or others to see if only 24% graduated. I believe they will have a much better result.
There is a theory, some doctors say the best way to recovery from a disease is by one's own immunization system, so if we can live without medicine, we'd better do that and try to recover with better living habit, better food, and others. So I think maybe the best way is just let it be.
It is better for a "mature" society make decision or legislation based on study with scientific methods such as statistics, instead of just by opinion after emotionally publish one or two cases on the media.
2. For crime, we have police, I think they can handle.
3. If you think something must be done, I think maybe police can send them a warning and keep a record that if they will be found the second time, they will be charged.
4. For the kids really need foster care, I believe this is better be handled by a government department that their salary has nothing to do with the number of the kids "in care", this would avoid any business organization making profit on children tears.
In any case my point has got nothing to do with CAS. If you restricted the opportunity to parent to those who are qualified, then perhaps you would have less need for CAS.With the large budge saved from CAS (In Ontario 1.2billion a year), children care system can use it to help poor kids.
For the kids living in poverty, when CAS take "in care", they ask for $87 a day from tax payers, that money is far more than enough for help kids living with their parents and improve the living condition.
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You've answered some of your questions yourself, with the links you provided. I've just kept the one from the CBC, as it seems like the most reliable evidence. Lets keep in mind that this kid suffered a great deal at the hands of many different people, all of whom he had a right to expect protection from. I don't want to minimize his trauma in any way, and I agree with you that someone failed him and should be held accountable.
This kid obviously had some challenges long before CAS was involved; there were medical professionals lined up to identify one syndrome after another.
Yes the kid has problem, the point is, CAS make it worse. That's the evil CAS is. Actually, I think CAS don't care the health of the kid at all, they care only money from taxpayers, $87 a day for a kid "in care".
From the like: http://www.cbc.ca/national/news/normal/
In seizing J, the Children's Aid Society should be taking the boy out of a bad situation and putting him into a better one. But his 15-month stay at the group home only makes things worse.As his legal guardian, J's CAS case worker has signed a medical consent form allowing the psychiatrist to increase the boy's medication.
With continued reports of J acting out, the doctor increases the boy's medications six times in less than a year.
The grandparents tell the CAS they want the pills to stop. But they have no legal rights.
The Children's Aid Society won't even tell them what the pills are. So his grandmother decides to find out:
A pharmacist checked the pills and told her that he was on Aeroquel, an anti-psychotic drug used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder in adults. It also acts as a sedative. A 25 mg dose can knock out some grownups. Seroquel has not been proven safe or effective in children.
McKay voices her alarm in her final report to the Durham Children's Aid Society:
"I am quite concerned that J is receiving dangerously high levels of medication and that this regime has no actual treatment value but is primarily, if not wholly, designed to suppress symptoms."
They find Dr. Wendy Roberts at the Hospital for Sick Children. She is a pediatrician who helps untangle multiple diagnoses in kids.
When she meets the nine year old, he's consuming a combination of:
* 50 mg of Ritalin
* 500 mg of Divalproex
* 500 mg of Seroquel.
Every day.
Dr. Wendy Roberts. (CBC)
"On the whole, all the classes of drugs were at the higher level of what you would typically expect to be seen used in children," Roberts says.
That was what CAS did, that is why some people suspect the CAS has connection with medicine industry that is revealed in the other 2 likes (
, http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n2.4d88f86.html) -
Career criminal claims his life of crime began with the Chatham, Ontario CAS
Former CAS Crown Ward vows to go straight after a lifetime of criminal activity
http://canadacourtwatch.com/CAS%20Files/20...tario%20CAS.pdf
By Mike March - Monday, July 1, 2008.
Placing children into the care of the Children’s Aid Society is one way of ensuring that those in the legal and law enforcement industries will be ensured an ongoing supply of criminals to keep their systems running at full tilt.
A recent court case in London, Ontario involving former CAS Crown Ward, Mervyn Breaton, supports what a recent study out of British Columbia has shown – that kids placed in foster care are more likely to be involved in a life of crime than getting a proper education.
The 87 year-old Breaton appeared before Justice Ross Webster in London, Ontario on charges relating to drugs and breach of probation.
Breaton said his history of being involved in crime began after he was placed into the care of Children’s Aid Society in Chatham as a child.
Braeton said that since the time he was placed in the care of the CAS that crime and jails is all that he has ever known.
"They threw me into Children's Aid and from then on it was one jail to another," he said.
In spite of Braeton’s involvement with CAS years ago, evidence would seem to indicate that many of the influences at CAS facilities which got him into a life of crime in the first place are still present and that not much at the CAS has improved over the years.
Even today, children living in group homes and foster homes in Ontario are being exposed to various forms of abuse and neglect with Ontario’s various CAS agencies fighting to keep Ontario’s Ombudsman, Andre Marin from having oversight over their agencies.
In the past year alone, Court Watch has interviewed kids in care who have reported a wide range of activities inside CAS facilities including beatings, assaults, drug use, sexual abuse and neglect while in the care of Ontario’s CAS child protection system.
Many of these children report that CAS workers and police turn a blind eye to abuses they suffer while in care.
Some girls become pregnant while in care of CAS as a result of the lax care and supervision found in many CAS facilities.
Some CAS workers have been caught trying to cover-up abuse of children in their care in order to cover up incompetence by their own workers.
Overall, Breaton has spent more of his life inside a jail than outside and at the peak of his career he spend 19 years of his life at the world famous Alcatraz prison located in San Francisco Bay.
While in Alcatraz, he looked after the infamous “Bird Man of Alcatraz” who was known in real life as Robert Stroud.
His record includes a string of car thefts, weapons and drug convictions and vehicular manslaughter.
He was an expert at escaping custody and on one of his escapades managed to escape from Collins Bay penitentiary in Kingston, Ontario in a daring over-the-wall flight to freedom.
"The next day I was in Toronto robbing banks," he said.
Justice Webster gave the 87 year-old former CAS ward a hefty $5,000 fine.
The fine is money which will not likely be put to good use as it will be given back to the Province of Ontario where from there some of it will be used to fund CAS agencies in their work to place yet more kids into CAS care.
After pleading guilty in court, Mervyn says, he really, really means it this time.
"I'm getting too old for this stuff," he said.
One can only imagine what his life would be like today if he had had not been thrown into the hands of the CAS where he was likely given his first taste of crime.
All this destruction of children by the CAS is funded by the taxpayers of the Province of Ontario of course.
Mike March is a freelance writer who writes on issues relating to the justice system in Canada. He may be reached at [email protected]
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You’re saying that the CAS involvement is why these kids aren’t graduating from high school? It’s more likely they aren’t graduating because of the reasons they ended up involved with CAS in the first place - they’ve been abused. CAS isn't creating mental illness in that 36% you are quoting; CAS naturally deals with clientele who have a higher incidence of mental illness, probably because of the trauma they've suffered at the hands of abusive parents. CAS isn’t the cause of the problem; you’re making a connection based on false premises.
How can you prove your statement has some base?
Do you have any evidence?
After all, the kids are like that in care of CAS.
There can be 3 possiblities:
1. CAS make them like that.
2. CAS did not change any thing.
3. CAS made some improvement.
I believe possibility 1 is the most likely answer.
If it is possibility 3, obvious CAS did not change a lot because the situation is still too bad. so why we need waste tax payer's money on this useless service?
Lets see the following links, that might give an answer why child in care of CAS has more chance to suffer a mental illness and why they are more likely to commit suicide:
http://www.cbc.ca/national/news/normal/
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n2.4d88f86.html
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Also, I've read through your other posts, bjre, and of course there is a need to investigate the allegations being made. If funds are being misspent, I expect there will be changes made, and hopefully better safeguards put into place. But that doesn't mean we get rid of the system altogether. Children are being abused, and as a society we can't just turn our back on them.
If a medicine found makes one patient death out of every 300 and cause 36% patient who use it mental illness, do you think this medicine can still be used?
In China, resently baby milk scandal has led to the deaths of six babie, two man sentenced to death, the former boss of Sanlu, Tian Wenhua, 66, was given a life sentence while three more of her colleagues were jailed from between five to 15 years.
Now kids "protected" by CAS dies every year, and only 24% graduated from high school and 36% end up in correction system, such an orinization can sell their concept?
Now you already know this, you still want others use it?
If you have a baby and you know a milk may cause him death, are you still going to feed him with the milk and say, "hopefully, better safeguards will make it not happen on my baby"?
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You've said that the rate of death of children in care is high, but have you compared that rate of death to the rate of death of abused children who are not discovered by the system?
How you can justify a crime with another crime? Do you want to tell me if there are murders exist, you kill others will be OK?
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Also, I've read through your other posts, bjre, and of course there is a need to investigate the allegations being made. If funds are being misspent, I expect there will be changes made, and hopefully better safeguards put into place. But that doesn't mean we get rid of the system altogether. Children are being abused, and as a society we can't just turn our back on them.
Let's read a book:
Wounded Innocents : The Real Victims of the War Against Child Abuse
by Richard Wexler
http://www.prometheusbooks.com/index.php?m...9c0aece49d9c0ba
http://www.amazon.com/Wounded-Innocents-Vi...d/dp/0879759364
The war against child abuse has become a war against children. Every year, hundreds of children die, thousands more are forced to live with strangers, and countless American families are torn apart. This is called a "child-protection system."
While the problem of child abuse is serious and real, journalist Richard Wexler charges that our solutions to the problem have actually made it worse - in fact, hurting the very children that they were intended to help.
Wexler reinforces his arguments with horrifying descriptions of children summarily removed from their homes, of families shattered because of false reports, and of children whose parents are guilty of nothing more than poverty being thrust into the maelstrom of the chaotic foster-care program. He writes of severly abused children - those needing the most help - whose cases are ignored because the system diverts scarce resources to trivial or unfounded cases, and who are reinjured, sometimes fatally after their plight has been called to the attention of authorities.
Wounded Innocents illustrates how well-meaning efforts to help children have gone terribly wrong and how the current child-protection system desperately needs to be replaced with one that offers real help and real hope to abused and neglected children.
"In his most excellent book, Wexler reports that sexual abuse of foster children by other foster children is epidemic and grossly underreported. A study found that 28 percent of children in Baltimore foster homes had been abused. A former New York Child Protective Services worker is quoted by Wexler as saying, 'Foster care is like Russian roulette.' . . . a well-documented, eye-opening expose of America's child protection system, which despite good intentions, creates more problems than it solves."
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I am raising a grandson who would have been put into the fostercare system, had my husband and I not stepped up. This saved the system thousands of dollars a year, but more importantly enures that he is in a loving home and part of a larger family.
In Ontario foster parents receive about $ 1,000.00 per month plus clothing, recreation, respite, etc. My grandson is severely disabled, so a foster parent would receive more than $ 1,500.00 per. In contrast, kinship foster parents receive a mere $ 230.00 to cover, food, clothing, etc. with no bonuses or extra funds for disabled charges.
My husband and I would do it for free, but unfortunately many families simply cannot.
It is very kind of you think of country and save money for other tax payers.
However, your kindness will not help, CAS still take the same amount of money from government no matter you get it or not, let's see where CAS spend money they take.
Ontario children's aid societies misspent money, auditors allege
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...ildrensaid.html
Luxury vehicles for executives, trips abroad and personal trainers are just a few of the "questionable" expenditures made by certain children's aid societies in Ontario, the provincial auditor general says.
CBC News has obtained a final draft of the province's first value-for-money audit of children's aid societies, scheduled to be released next week.
The audit alleges some employees improperly spent money on cars, travel and even fitness.The audit alleges some employees improperly spent money on cars, travel and even fitness.
(CBC)
The report focuses on four agencies — in Thunder Bay, Toronto, the Peel region and the York region — that account for almost 25 per cent, or $310 million, of the $1.42 billion spent annually on all 53 children's aid societies in the province.
The report details a number of troubling expenditures, including:
* Senior managers receiving high-end SUVs to use for work — worth tens of thousands more than the maximum allowances that provincial deputy ministers are allowed.
* Scores of trips by the children being cared for and staff members to the Caribbean.
* A week-long stay at resort.
However, the report does not name the agencies in connection with the alleged actions — leaving it unclear which of the children's aid societies are at issue.
Retired homicide detective Michael Davis said the report makes him angry and disappointed. He has reviewed the deaths of hundreds of children who died while in the care of children's aid societies.
"I think the public is going to be outraged when they hear this," said Davis. "When they look at these perks being used by children's aid societies."
Agencies saw findings, hired public relations firm
When CBC News called several of the agencies, they said all queries had to go through the Ontario Association of the Children's Aid Societies. The association, however, refused to comment on the report before its official release.
Ontario Minister of Children and Youth Services Mary Anne Chambers stonewalled reporters when peppered with questions about the CBC report on Thursday afternoon.
"I'm going to wait until the auditor general releases his report," Chambers told reporters, refusing to "speculate" on a document she said she hadn't seen.
However, the report contains responses to the auditor general's findings from all four children's aid societies and the provincial body responsible for all the agencies.
And the CBC has also obtained an internal document showing that an outside public relations agency has been hired to develop a response to the damaging report and "to preserve the reputation of children's aid societies and their leadership."
Luxury SUVs among agency's 50-vehicle fleet
At one of the four agencies, the auditors said they made a number of disturbing discoveries regarding the massive fleet of company vehicles and improper use by staff.
The report states that senior management staff received luxury vehicles, including two SUVs worth $53,000 and $59,000.
It notes that not even the province's deputy ministers, who have a maximum allowance of $30,000, receive such expensive cars.
Those two SUVs were among a fleet of 50 vehicles owned or leased by one agency.
But that auditor found that almost half of those vehicles were underused, logging fewer than 10,000 kilometres a year. Some of them even were below 4,000 kilometres a year, the report says.
Those numbers were far below usage levels of above 22,000 kilometres per year considered economical by the Ministry of Transportation.
There was one instance at that agency where an individual not only had exclusive use of a society-owned vehicle but also received a tax-free allowance of $600 per month for use of his personal vehicle.
Personal trips, all-inclusive resorts
The auditor general alleges in the report that an employee at one agency made a personal trip on the taxpayers' tab.
In that case, a senior staff member allegedly attended an international conference in Beijing, China that was "unrelated to his duties or society business," the report states.
At the same society, the report notes that an executive assistant and executive director travelled to a conference in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
The three other agencies were also found to have scores of unusual trips abroad, with a number of "questionable" trips by children and staff members to the Caribbean.
There were a number of instances where the agencies bought return tickets for children to visit families in the Caribbean, the report states.
One of the societies paid $1,700 for a seven-day all-inclusive trip to a resort in St. Martin and another $4,000 one-week trip to St. Lucia for a caseworker to accompany a child returning to their biological family.
Auditor questions funding
Other findings allege the societies aren't following the law to protect children.
In one-third of cases reviewed, initial visits to children at risk were late by an average of three weeks. Some children weren't seen at all.
In the report, the auditor asks why government funding for Ontario's children's aid societies has more than doubled over six years, while the number of families served increased by 40 per cent.
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I'm pretty sure that CAS doesn't run on a profit and most social workers are overworked and underpaid. That's a huge part of the problem.
They will face lay off if they did not taking enough children into "care":
http://www.hastingscas.org/uploaded/media/...M%20deficit.pdf
Hastings CAS projects $2.1M deficit
Lack of provincial support blamed
The Hastings Children's Aid Society is projecting a $2.1 million deficit by the end of this fiscal year -- a fact it attributes to a ck of provincial support.
While the shortfall won't stop the agency from delivering essential services, executive director Len Kennedy said it will put more pressure on staff who oversee hundreds of kids in care.
"On a couple of occasions this year we've not replaced a person or delayed the replacement to save a few months of salary," he said.
"We'll continue to exercise all diligent measure to try and reduce the deficit, but there isn't a whole lot we can go after because we are delivering mandatory services."
At a board meeting Thursday, finance director Mark Stevens presented a report showing that the agency's projected expenditures for the 2008-09 fiscal year are $32.5 million. Yet, based on the number of children it cares for, the agency is only eligible for $31.1 million of provincial funding -- resulting in a $1.4 million deficit for the year.
However, the CAS is still carrying deficits from the previous two years -- nearly $266,000 from 2006-07 and nearly $468,000 from 2007-08.
It adds up to $2.1 million, a number that is significant, but not surprising, Kennedy said, given the province's flawed funding formula.
He said the province provides Children's Aid Societies with $87 a day for each child in its care. But additional money is needed to pay for such things as therapy and counselling for children, who often come into its care following reports of abuse.
During the meeting, Kennedy noted to board members that 38 other Ontario children's aid societies sent firstquarter financial reports to the province. Together, those agencies were expecting an accumulated deficit of about $38 million.
"Our scenario is in keeping with what other agencies are reporting at this time," he said.
Last March, the province provided an extra $800,000 to the Hastings CAS to reduce a previously anticipated $1.3 million deficit, just before the fiscal year ended.
Kennedy does not know whether a similar rollout will be offered this spring, but said the agency is talking with the province about raising the funds.
"We're hoping there will be some relief again," he said. "Our position is these are the costs of delivering the mandatory service of child welfare in Hastings County. Those costs continue to be above the level of funding we receive, but we don't have any choice about the service that must be delivered."
He stressed, however, that the $2.1 million figure is only a projection.
If more kids come into its care over the course of the year, the CAS would be eligible for more funding, Kennedy said, but the money won't be enough to erase a deficit.
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If the CAS remove children because of abuse, there is abuse.
British Columbia Bullies Family
British Columbia child protectors took baby Bethany from parents Paul and Zabeth Bayne claiming shaken baby. They placed their other two children with their grandparents under a supervision agreement. On May 19 and 20, 2008, while that arrangement was in force, Global TV aired two stories on the family. You can view the second video on the Bayne blog.
Three weeks later the ministry reneged on their agreement with the family and seized the two children still in their custody. They have not been returned.
http://fightingunjustsocialserviceethics.b...ng-parents.html
Child Abusers or Caring Parents?
http://fightingunjustsocialserviceethics.b...ng-parents.html
The above video aired on Global TV, May 20, 2008. Since its airing, a signed agreement with the Ministry of Children and Family Development from May 16, 2008 returning the two older children to the parents under a supervision order was canceled, as the Ministry felt that the parents had breached the mediation agreement by involving themselves and the children in an interview with Global TV. In fact though the interview was recorded the day prior to their mediation on May 15, 2008 and thus impossible for any breach. On May 19, 2008 Global TV did its first story on the family with the above follow up.
As a result the two older children who were already in a supervised living arrangement with the parents in the home of the Grandparents found themselves facing two police officers, the Director and social worker for the Ministry of Children and Family on June 12, 2008. The family was in the middle of birthday celebrations for the second child who was turning three and excited to have his other Grandpa there as well, who does not live in the area. Amid tears and screams from the children and family, those in power removed the two boys from their loving home in a violent and traumatic manner.
Statements from the Ministry's lawyer concerning their actions was that it was a "control issue". The Ministry has shifted the responsibility for their actions to their Practical Analyst with Service Quality. They say that the orders for immediate removal came from this source. Further research and inquiry by the mother found that the Practical Analyst did not have direct authority. They deal at arms length and only advise what fits the law. They hold no power to make decisions. She was told the decision in fact came from the Director and the Social Worker.
The Bayne family currently has eight completed and submitted experts reports that confirm their innocence to any abuse. These experts include: ophthalmologists, neuroradiologists, abuse specialist pediatricians, forensic pathologists, hematologists and biomechanics. They have ten more specialists that are currently reviewing their medical records and will be submitting their reviews shortly.
Regardless of the above submissions, the countless character reference letters, the petitions from the community and the obvious bond between the children and their parents, the Ministry has maintained its position. They require the parents to admit to guilt and if they don't do this, it is viewed as being uncooperative, as being a sign of denial and thus guilt and the actions of parents that are not truly interested in the best for their children.
At present the three children reside in foster care and are showing the effects of this prolonged separation. The Ministry has given the family one choice - trial. So in effect we seem to have the makings of yet another Goudge Inquiry in British Columbia.
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Canada has so strong CAS that can cost $1.2 billion a year only in Ontario. Why there are still so high rate of people educated in this system involve in severe violence? It is because kids did not receive enough discipline when they are in school age. Why gov keep spent a lot of money in CAS and in prison and justice system but just ignore the correct education methods for the kids?
It is said that physical punishment can lead to violence of children, did I find violence decrease by the effort of CAS, did I see good work performance of CAS? did I see their work deserved? It is CAS that contributed a lot to make the kids lost their best education opportunities. The correct education is definitely a key to a peaceful society.
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Physical punishment is not necessary for raising children. Physical punishment doesn't teach a child anything about appropriate behaviour; instead it teaches them to fear people who are bigger and stronger than them.It isn’t illegal in Canada to spank your child, so a simple spanking isn’t going to result in CAS intervention. The studies you cite all talk about non-abusive discipline, which is acceptable under our criminal code. (Whether or not it should be is another argument.)
I saw a positive change from your comment, at least this time you admit that spanking is not illegal.
CAS is evil is because it runs under its own interest, it does not always do it according to law. I have heard a case that a child wants to leave family himself and he did it with the help of CAS. In another case that CAS works base on evidence that does not exist. http://vimeo.com/766883?pg=embed&sec=766883
raises red flags all around. What is a “small wound”? It sounds like you are talking about an unreasonable level of violence towards a child, and if so, the child needs to be protected.So, that is the reason the kids should be sent to hell? If you find there are mosquitoes near your kids, will you send them to a place that has no mosquitoes but has snakes? CAS does not care about kids, they care only about money, they try to find every chance to take more kids into their “care” so that they can “protect” them and ask for “protecting fee” from taxpayers. ($87 a day for a kid that can be taken into CAS’s care). After CAS get that money they want, most children are ignored, their fate are totally unpredictable. That is the reason death rate of CAS in care kids are so high and the high school graduated rate is so low.
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Here are some comments from internet.
Of course corporal punishment should return for the simple reason (for any who have experienced it) it works. However, we are so deep into the grip of Political Correctness that that once respected quality of common sense is all but extinct. What really is puzzling is how these PC idiots get to write the rulebook when the vast majority of people (voters) think otherwise??David Edwards, UK
No one can say or do anything to rowdy kids these days - they have no respect for adults and have the protection of 'human rights' to hide behind to cause as much trouble as they like. If there is the threat of punishment, then they might keep their cheeky mouths shut.Binky Bumble, England
Today's classroom discipline is an unfair burden on both the teachers and the majority of pupils. What many people forget is that there are people suffering because without the cane, or any reasonable alternative, innocent children are missing out on their education because no one is stopping a few rowdies from running riot.Kim, England
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I don't care how many papers say it's OK to hit children, ...
I would rather show some respect to scientific methods.
This is typical article without supporting data like statistics. Any theory without supporting data has no difference with guess. As post #2 said, there are 94% of American parents spanking their children by the time they are 3 or 4 years old, if it does not work, why so many people can not find it? Are they all fools?
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Russell Peters - Beating Your Kids
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With 94% of American parents spanking their children by the time they are 3 or 4 years old (From Straus, M. A., & Stewart, J. H. (1999). Corporal punishment by American parents: National data on prevalence, chronicity, severity, and duration, in relation to child and family characteristics. Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, 2, 55–70. http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP36.pdf ) we did not find a statistics said the in US 1/300 children die every year or only 24% graduate from high school like CAS did in Canada.
Here are some paper that have concluded that corporal punishment is both effective and desirable
Baumrind, D. (1996). A blanket injunction against disciplinary use of spanking is not warranted by the data. Pediatrics, 98(4, Pt. 2), 828–831.
Baumrind, D. (1996). The discipline controversy revisited. Family Relations, 45, 405–415.
Baumrind, D. (1997). Necessary distinctions. Psychological Inquiry, 8, 176–182.
Larzelere, R. E. (1996). A review of the outcomes of parental use of nonabusive or customary physical punishment. Pediatrics, 98(4, Pt. 2), 824–828.
Larzelere, R. E. (2000). Child outcomes of non-abusive and customary physical punishment by parents: An updated literature review. Unpublished manuscript, University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha, and Father Flanagan’s Boys’ Home, Boys Town, NE.
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CAS is more harmful to children than physical discipline by parents
Don't bother quoting the bible. It is an ancient, outdated book of nonsense. I won't take anything from the bible as a serious argument, particularly when it advocates child abuse. Physical punishment is not necessary for raising children. Physical punishment doesn't teach a child anything about appropriate behaviour; instead it teaches them to fear people who are bigger and stronger than them.Physical punishment is a popular method widely used by parents for thousands of years everywhere in the world. Some of the people cite the disadvantage of it. So the study comes. Politicians find the topic can bring them vote, Crown find it can bring more easy cases to justice system. CAS (Children’s care) find it can bring them a industry level income. So the legislation comes after media wide reported a few cases to grant CAS to watch people and search for case. Now there are nearly 30,000 kids are in care by CAS in Ontario, one out of 100 kids. This brings CAS more than $1.2 billion a year, that is $100 from everybody every year through tax. Many kids are separated from their parents by CAS. Many families were run out of their money during the court process, many families were destroyed, may kids become without parents or with single parent.
A recent report shows 90 kids were die in the care of CAS in Ontario. The death rate is one out of every 300 kids die yearly in care of CAS include high rate of suicide, homicide, and accidental death.
http://www.thestar.com/article/591523
A report from BC shows kids in care of CAS has only 24% can graduate from high school, while 36% end up in correction system.
http://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/publications_f...blic-forum.html
From the statistics, we can see it is very clear CAS does not make child grow well.
Why children are taken into care by CAS, it is very often because parents want to physical discipline kids. Parents were educating kids. Let’s suppose the physical discipline is not good, what can be the solution, ask help from CAS? If kids get a small wound from discipline, they will get a lifetime great hurt from CAS.
Is the physical discipline real evil? There are studies on that:
“Nonabusive Physical Punishment and Child Behavior among African-American Children: A Systematic Review” http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf
“UC Berkeley study finds no lasting harm among adolescents from moderate spanking earlier in childhood” http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...8/24_spank.html
However these serious studies were strongly argued by others who can take money from the industry such as CAS or who can get benefit from that or who did not make serious study based on real statistics. Actually there are many such studies in 1970s. However, we cannot find most of them from internet because the internet is not popular at that time.
Inadequate use of physical punishment is not correct and may lead to harm, however, this method should not be ban because of a few real abuse cases. Just like when we heard there are traffic accident on the road, shall we ban all the express way, all the highway and all the road, or shall we ban all the cars, airplanes? We know electricity can be dangerous to people, shall we ban it? So the correct manor is study how to use physical discipline and in which case it is harmful and educate parents instead of bully on them and use punishment to parents first.
Parents do physical discipline is with their best hope to children, with love, and with responsibility, while CAS does their business with a standard procedure like robot with no love, no consideration of children’s well being, and children’s future.
The truth is CAS is the real evil to children, not the physical discipline.
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Well, this is certainly thread drift, but I think the CBC poll is closed by now anyway...
Bjre, I think you misinterpreted the article you cited here. Not to dismiss the gravity of having 90 children die, but they weren't all in CAS care. They were known to CAS, which means they either were in foster care, were with thier own families but had an open file, or had their file closed in the past year. Of the deaths,
It sounds like at least 22 of the deaths were unpreventable, which makes sense. Lots of chronically ill children become wards of CAS. The rest deserve some answers, and it is good to see articles like this calling attention to it.
But I disagree with your position that CAS is the problem. For CAS to be involved, there has to be some problems in the family in the first place. Children don't get taken away unless there is a very good reason to do so.
CAS is definitely a pest on these cases.
With CAS involved, parents can no longer be able to teach their kids,
The phrase "spare the rod and spoil the child" is from the Bible:
The following quotations come from the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible:
bullet Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
bullet Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
bullet Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
bullet Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
bullet Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
bullet Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
An additional verse from the New Testament is occasionally cited as justification for physical punishment of children:
bullet Hebrews 12:6-7: "...the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"
I am not trying to challenge the law, however, punishment is necessary for raising children, just like encouragement. With CAS involved, if parents did anything the children don't like, the parents will face trouble, in this case the parents has no human rights at all. What can they do is only let it be. So it is not surprised that some of kids die after CAS involved. In much more cases, kids no long need learn any more, that is the reason that the percentage of CAS in care kids who can graduate from high school is much lower than lots of 3rd world countries.
I think the law about kids are based on opinion, opinion are based on media interests, and media are controlled by powerful people. It is better legislation based on ironic scientific methods like statistics.
I think it is better that law changes to disable CAS, and let police do if necessary.
The reason the salary of cops has nothing to do with the number of the kids take into "care".
"It sounds like at least 22 of the deaths were unpreventable"If it IS unpreventable, why CAS still need to involve to spend tax and make children lost their parents? The answer is, they want ONLY money, one kid $87 a day, they don't care of children.
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So many human beings has no job include some commit suicide and some kill his boss after being laid off. So many human beings are in poverty. Do you think if people should have higher priority than animals?
And I have another concern, I have heard that some organizations take a lot of donations in their office spent and their own salary, but the amount actually used in the topic they advertised are very limited.
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I have work experience in 3 big corporations,
a German company in China, a top 500 compnay,
a US company in China, a top 500 company,
a Canadian company here, large but not in the top 500.
My impression of large company is
1. Human resource department work in a standard way, many people who has strong ability but experience not in their list has no chance to enter these companies.
2. They like to hire fresh graduated students and training them for long time.
Besides, I think maybe strong Union here is a factor that make them impossible to lower the cost when they are at crisis.
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Later that day, in reality land....
Yeah right.
Reporters Without Borders - press Freedom index
Thank you for the rank list, I just found Iceland's human rights is so good that they are nearly bankrupt.
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Later that day, in reality land....
Yeah right.
Reporters Without Borders - press Freedom index
Those are all west country's rule of west country's game for their politician's needs.
It never count how many Iraq people and Afghanistan people died after US enter those countries. They would not die if US did not invade their countries.
Do the all civilians dead has human rights?
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I don’t know how to describe my feeling on Canadian style of human rights. Canada seems like to encourage lawyers to prove many people did something wrong and sent them to prison and give them a criminal record, and ask everyone in the country spend $400 a year to support the prisons. And they don’t like to warm-heartedly use some positive thinking to affect the problem people and educate them and give them chance and trust to become nice people. Like some people crime just because poverty, Why not just give them a job and let them make living themselves. (Like if any company hire a person that yearly income is below a number, some percentage of salary can be paid by government in order to lower the cost of the justice system). Some people just want to use drug, why not give them respect and let them feel them self are important.
The human rights are also used to protect foreign criminals. Like Lai ChangXin and others.
It seems that the human right issues are just spend tax payer’s money and for politicians to get some more votes.
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Actually, I never felt human right in China is worse than Canada.
Yes, in China, media does not report something that Canadian media enjoy reporting. In Canada, it is just same. Some reports we can read in China we can not find here. It is also same in the US and UK.
I felt quite free to say anything when I was in China; while in Canada, this is not true. People will face charge if they say something by mistake. (Like someone will face "hate crime" charge). Cops and Lawyers are waiting for chance to earn money. And the expansive justices sometimes are not affordable for people who have not enough money here in Canada.
The reason why some people think Chinese are "rude" is because the society there has more tolerance. At least they can THINK anything need not worry about be charged for hate.
CAS is more harmful to children than physical discipline by parents
in Federal Politics in Canada
Posted
When he was at kid age that need parental guide and education, CAS took him away from the love and discipline from his parents. I never heard of CAS care of children's education, CAS just take the kids away and throw it to anywhere and ask government for money. That is the reason kid "protected" by CAS has high death rate, and low high-school graduate rate. CAS victimize kids everyday. (http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...519207_7635.jpg, http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...3519218_969.jpg, http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...519203_6457.jpg )
And, did you even notice there is the following text in the artical? ( http://canadacourtwatch.com/CAS%20Files/20...tario%20CAS.pdf )