Hjalmar

Interesting!!! .. Could it be that Svend Robinsons $50,000.00 theft bolstered their ratings perhaps?

Not necessarily greed on the part of corporations.. In most instances today it is through necessity in order to remain competitive. That's a myth. Wages can go nowhere but down in this day and age because we have priced ourselves out of the market just like Germany who has now become the largest exporter of jobs. If the jobs cannot be outsourced people will find a way to remain competitive through the use of computers, robots etc. But then of course you could follow the example of the Luddites in West Yorkshire England who launched a terrorist campaign against the use of automated cropping machines back in 1811. They burned factories and murdered factory owners who dared to adopt the new technology.

Michael Hardner If everyone made minimum wage the $25,000.00 car you see today would be priced at $2,500.00. Before big labour started to dominate, like it has over the past 35 years, that's exactly what you paid for a full size car with all the bells and whistles available then. Many people traded in their cars every year for $600.00 difference. You sure don't see that today -- People have to keep the same car for 5 years at least.. the cost difference is just to great. So in effect Michael this refutes your entire argument about "who is going to buy the products if you don't have union wages?"

SOURCE Big Labour V/S Right to Work Laws An examination of the AFLCIO's legislative agenda confirms that union officials are profoundly hostile to the free enterprise system. They have lobbied for, among other things, broad-based government price and wage fixing, the Clinton health-care scheme, and a panoply of tax increases for businesses and individuals. Gutting the successful wave of state and Federal welfare reforms over the last decade has been a top union objective as well. Additionally, union lobbyists are among the strongest backers of the array of business-harassing regulatory schemes that are smothering small businesses across the nation under mountains of Federally imposed paperwork. The number-one reason that Washington, if it acts at all, will pass a tax cut devoid of fairness to American taxpayers or benefit to the economy is the opposition of the union political machine. The overall tax burden, as a percentage of income, is the highest it has ever been in peacetime. Federal tax receipts have jumped 49% since 1992. It is no coincidence that the growth in government spending has accompanied a continuing expansion of union control over government workers. Today, 43% of them are subject to union monopoly-bargaining contracts, and many are compelled to pay dues as a condition of employment. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe it's even worse here in Canada because we have no "right to work" laws

I say it the way I see it BG. There was a time when unions were very popular but that is fast changing now and more and more people are starting to look down on labour unions when they witness governments losing millions daily as a result of union activities. Look at the Longshoremen for example when they close down the ports and business is lost forever to competing ports in the USA. Same with the auto industry.. look at the prices of cars made here in Canada, the USA and Western Europe. Compare them with prices of cars made in South Korea such as KIA for example. Notice how prices skyrocketed for Toyota and Honda for instance after they started manufacturing their cars in North America. Who benefits from this, other than union workers? Union workers are hurting non-union workers big time.. It has to come to an end and it will.. But it will be to the detriment of union workers.

BigGunner Of course not. But no one can deny that labour unions aren't connected to organized crime and the mafia. All you have to do is notice some of their antics. Many unions that are connected to organized crime have been mentioned.. The Teamsters, The CAW, and The Longshoremens Union come to mind. That's not to say that they all are but unfortunately they all get painted with the same brush and this is how people view them today.

And union bosses and workers blame management for their own failures.

The statement of the century!!!!

What amazes me is the way governments so freely and recklessly continue to introduce new social spending for the sole purpose of electoral support, knowing full well that, once introduced, become virtually impossible to rescind or even scale back... Intergenerational theft is what I call it .. our ancestors are left to pay the bills..

There's not a question in my mind that he returned the ring for fear of being caught. Most people know who he is and they had video cameras there. Then he has the nerve to appear on camera teary eyed telling the world that his mind just "snapped" and tried to blame it on stress. If he gets away with this with a lame excuse like that then our laws in Canada will need a major overhaul. Failing that, this will become a common excuse for every crime imaginable, murder, rape, you name it!!! I must add here.. What does this say for all the people that are supporting him and feeling sorry for him.. People like Jack Layton for example? Do we really want to give people like that the power to have any influence over major decisions that are made in this country?

There are distinct differences between public sector and private sector unions. These distinctions raise some questions: 1. Should public sector employees be allowed to unionize at all? 2. Should public sector employers be subjected to the "closed union shop" rules that affect many private employers? 3. Should public sector employees be allowed the choice of whether to join a union if they are employed by the government? 4. Should government employers be required to tie any union contracts for wages and benefits to market level wages and benefits for equivalent jobs in the private sector? 5. Is it rational that government employers and union representatives negotiate a contract without the input of the taxpayers who pay for the contract? 6. What incentive is present for government employers to negotiate a reasonable wage and benefit package when it's taxpayers' money that's footing the bill?

And this one from a young 25 year old gentleman from Edmonton ----------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps my recent experience in Detroit, MI will illustrate the adverse effect the powerful union community in “Motown” has had on service levels..... Our company designs and manufactures industrial equipment; and a large part of our sales and marketing efforts involve exhibiting at major worldwide equipment tradeshows.... The difference in the service levels and professionalism of local tradeshow labor in unionized areas vs. “right –to – work” states is remarkable.... The service we receive from unionized work forces is appalling.... Detroit happens to be the worst and therefore is the city I should use as an example. When we describe the events that occur during tradeshow setup in Detroit, people think we are joking.... Our tradeshow booth is comprised of 2 components, our equipment, and a large display board featuring pictures of our product.... First lets start with the display board; the display, which normally takes me a ½ hour to setup on my own costs me 8 man hours of union labor billed at over $80.00 per hour.... First I need 2 carpenters to erect the structure (should take 3 minutes, takes them 1 hour), and then I need 2 theatre & stage workers to erect the panels (should take 2 minutes, takes them 1 hour) then I need 2 A/V workers to ensure that my two little spotlights are pointed in the right direction… but wait, they can’t actually plug in the spotlights, they will get fined, I need to hire two electricians to plug my spotlights into a power bar (I pay two guys $80 bucks each to plug a light bulb into a socket!)... In the meantime there are several thugs (they call them shop stewards) hanging around my booth watching every move ensuring that we don’t perform any “union” labor.... Last year an employee almost got kicked of the show floor for plugging his mouse into his computer! ...That’s just the display board! ..You should see what we have to go through just to get our equipment hooked up! We have complained to show management about the union, and they have informed us that it is the number one complaint of exhibitors, and it has gotten to the point where they are thinking of moving the entire show to another state, one that has enacted Right to Work” legislation.... That is unbelievable; the City of Detroit is about to lose a major tradeshow and all the associated economic benefit BECAUSE of the union! This is just one example of many! Upon my return to Canada, feeling very frustrated with union labor, I found that while I was away the unionized workers of the international airport at which I had landed had gone on strike.... In this case they were on strike because the guy who gets paid $26.00 an hour to keep birds off the runway wanted a “Job for Life” clause in his contract…. I say, GET A LIFE.

Interesting tidbit from an editorial in a local newspaper "I have worked for both union and non-union jobs and here is what I have found.... When I worked for non-union companies, I worked for my boss.... I am, and have always been a hard, honest working employee.... I feel that if I produce and work harder than my fellow employees I should be rewarded for my hard work such as a raise in pay, and my fellow employees felt the same way..... We also enjoyed the atmosphere and had a good time at work..... Then I went to work for a company that was union and I found that the atmosphere was totally different .... .Everyone seemed to work AGAINST the employer.... Nobody was given any recognition for doing a good job, because everyone was making the same wage.. Believe me when I say it doesn't do anything for a persons self-esteem to see a fellow employee doing little or nothing and making the same wage as yourself, as you are giving it your all..... Employees also seem to begrudge it when their employers make money.... Today people don't work for their bosses, they work for the unions, maybe that is where the major problems lie, there is no loyalty for the companies people work for anymore .... I also know that you don't need unions if you are an honest, hard working employee who takes pride in their job, but then if you're not I guess you sort of need the union". ---------------------------------------------------------- The message seems to be - If you're a slacker you need the union, and if you're a worker you don't.... If you were an employer, would you opt for the union model? ... I didn't think so!

Another story Here's a recent posting from another lady in another forum of mine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- By the way, saw some woman on TV complaining that now she will only get $9.00/hr.... Imagine, you stand on a line for 8 hrs and all you have to do is shove a slab of meat in a bag (assembly line type work) no education required and you actually are complaining about $9.00/hr plus benefits.... What an ingrate, she doesn't know how lucky she is. (her union pay had been $17.00/hr) Are you guys really saying that shoving a piece of meat in a bag is worth $17.00 per hour.... Get real!!!!!!!!!!!

A horror storiy about labour unions Here is a horror story from a lady in Cape Breton ...This story was posted in another Canada-wide forum of mine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi - I worked in a fish plant in Cape Breton for 12 years before it was closed..... We were members of the Canadian Auto Workers union...... Some one on here refered to them as the Corrupt Auto Workers..... I must say I agree. A friend of mine was complaining about the methods when we were going through recent seasonal layoffs..... She was overheard saying to other workers that the union did not seem to be doing much for the workers in the plant..... That night someone slashed all 4 tires on her car right in her own driveway. The next day the union steward came up to her and said- see, the union is doing things for you people and you better keep your mouth shut or you might have a lot more bad luck. She is a single mother with 3 children. Ever since then I have felt that the Auto Workers are nothing more than criminals that pray on defenceless workers that have no choice but to hand over there dues or get hurt or there houses burned. Those auto workers sure are corrupt- I saw what they will do first hand and they should never be trusted- ever.

BigGunner Never heard of it? .. How about the young man with a wife and 3 children from Vancouver. This man had just purchased a brand new tandem truck complete with box and hoist back in 1984 or 85. They were preparing the site for Expo 86. The man was saddled with hefty payments on his truck. He wheels onto the site with a load of gravel and is met by about 100 unionists who blocked his path front and rear -- he couldn't move. Then these thugs started to hammer on the hood and fender of his brand new truck. How would you feel? The story and pictures were on TV that evening. This is typical labour union activity -- their way or the highway and it has to stop. Governments are too chicken to touch labour union laws so the people themselves need to start speaking out -- and they have.

jccc Voluntary Unionism is the answer -- or "right to work" laws as it is known in the USA.

RB I have always maintained that labour unions at one time served a useful purpose. Clarence Darrow was born in 1864 and died in 1938. Do you honestly think he would make the same statement today? A competent lawyer in this day and age would never make that statement unless he was connected to the labour union itself or the mafia.

Nail on the head willy. You have zeroed in on the one area where Canada has been going downhill ever since the advent of Pierre Trudeau in 1968. It appears that governments are incapable of reversing this trend. Some of the Oriental countries are far ahead of us when it comes to teaching their children personal responsibility while Canada promotes protection from cradle to grave. As it happens, welfare spending in most of these Oriental countries is almost unheard of.

cgarrett If you're referring to protectionism, I agree with you.

RB I say it the way I see it. As Hugo has pointed out, trade unions are a natural product of the capitalist system. This begs the question: Why are labour unions, a byproduct of the capitalist system, supporting advocates of the socialistic system? Socialism is more closely aligned with communism than capitalism. A socialist is a clone of the communist, only not quite as mature. Labour unions today have outlived their usefulness. I say that because they refuse to adjust to our changing world. In Canada today they have become too strong and overpowering -- almost to the point where our governments have become relegated to the second level of power. Touching labour union laws has become a taboo subject for governments because of the electoral consequences. Labour unions will always be with us but they need to be kept in check. That means bringing their numbers down from the present 25% here in Canada to a manageable level of perhaps 12%. Labour unions exercise no economic smarts and this is now destroying our country. Labour union leaders are going to have to veer into a totally different direction which would be more mindful of the well being of the corporations, governments and the good of our country as a whole instead of focussing only on their own selfish greed.

RB And who ends up with the larger net? But are you too embarassed to quote figures that more closely reflect the true picture.. namely, non-union workers earning $10.00/hr and the union worker closer to $20.00/hr and sometimes much higher. In regards to the job security issue can you name me one employer that is in business for the sole purpose of creating jobs? Jobs are only stable if the corporation is profitable. Labour unions have more to do with corporations going under than any other factor. That's why you're seeing such massive outsourcing today. Labour unions have become the largest bane in our society today and are destroying our country's potential by driving jobs out of the country.

Go cry me a river BG. This typical union attitude is the reason that labour unions and their workers are fast becoming the most hated group in our society.. the group in our society that does the least and gets paid the most money. Have you any idea how people are starting to talk about your ilk when you disrupt other peoples lives, increase the price of the goods we must buy and keep our income taxes higher than necessary because of the greed in the public sector where you max out your leverage. It is people like you that are going to find out the hard way.

Taxes Accounts Receivable Tax Building Permit Tax Capital Gains Tax CDL license Tax Cigarette Tax Corporate Income Tax Court Fines - (indirect taxes) Dog License Tax Federal Income Tax Federal Unemployment Tax - (FUTA) Fishing License Tax Food License Tax Fuel permit tax Gasoline Tax - (42 cents per gallon) Hunting License Tax Inheritance Tax Interest expense - (tax on the money) Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges - (tax on top of tax) IRS Penalties - (tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Local Income Tax Luxury Taxes Marriage License Tax Medicare Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Septic Permit Tax Service Charge Taxes Social Security Tax Road Usage Taxes - (Truckers) Sales Taxes Recreational Vehicle Tax Road Toll Booth Taxes School Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax - (SUTA) Telephone federal excise tax Telephone federal universal service fee tax Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax Telephone State and local tax Telephone usage charge tax Toll Bridge Taxes Toll Tunnel Taxes Traffic Fines - (indirect taxation) Trailer registration tax Utility Taxes Vehicle License Registration Tax Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers Compensation Tax COMMENTS: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world, had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world and Mom stayed home to raise the kids. Very similar here in Canada. What the hell happened ???

Has anyone noticed that union employees today are starting to feel embarassed about admitting or revealing that they belong to a union? What do you think?