independent
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I don't consider it a "RIGHT" in the same way you do. I consider it an obligation that parents undertake when they choose to have kids the same way that parents have an obligation to feed and clothe those kids. Do you consider being clothed, fed, and sheltered a "right"?
You argument amounts simply to a statement that "that's democracy, so too bad". What I am saying is that even in a democratic society there should be policies implemented which maximize each individual's freedom, otherwise all your discussion that you want a policy that is "fair that everyone" is irrelevant. What it simply amounts to is that the majority can pass any policy which it is in it's self-interest and will do so regardless of it is "fair". In fact I think that is precisely how we have come to many of the programs now in place including education.
If your reasoning on why non-parents pay for education is simply that the majority believes that they should, then I agree but what I dispute is a rationalization which tries to justify it as "fair". Really, most people are parents or plan to be and it is in their self interest to support such a policy.
The more education we give out kids the more productive society becomes and everyone benefits. Providing a good educational system is just a smart thing to do.
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As a owner of a Nationwide business (except Quebec) in Canada I am thrilled Harper is in charge during these rough economic times. Dion and the Liberals would spend us into the worst economic downturn in Canadian history. The NDP would also spoend us into a blackhole and scare away ALL foriegn investment and business. The Greens well lets just say the Stone Age would be a nicer time.
Harper has his head on straight, he is thinking not only of businesses, foriegn investment but also of the individual and he will keep the country on track as best possible with all the other nations around us going down the sh*tter.
Big Business making money means more jobs, more foriegn investment, more people working and paying into the National Tax pool, more money for the governmetn to do the things that the individuals wwant them to do for the country!
To believe anything else you must be drinking the crap the Liberals, NDP or Green Party are trying to pass off as Kool-Aid and it's gonna kill you and the country if you drink it!!
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt02b.htm
The facts do not match your assessment. The conservative expenditures have gone up every year in power. There was no sign of reduced expenditures
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The anything but harper was started by the premier of Newfoundland. The Liberals are not the only party that does not want Harper in. A lot of voters I know would not even be voting if it was not too make sure Harper does not get in.
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Anyone that gives into the BS of "Climate Change" or "Global Warming" is stupid but unfortunately if you do not go along with the lie sometimes the masses of idiots that believe what the fear mongers preach will not let you do anything at all.
It is better to go along with the lie to then teach the people the truth when you can and then do what is best for the people when they understand the truth.
I say do what you can to be as green a nation as can be but not do it at such an extent that it hurts the economy and greater interests of the citizens of that country like the NDP, Green and Liberals are proposing.
I understand your believe about climate change. I even agree with some of what you say. I have seen the research. What I do not understand is why you do not paint the tories with the same brush. Harper has a green plan as well. Is it okay because he set it aside for the election. I understand your support for Harper but are you blindly ignoring faults in his ideas as well.
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Holy CRAP you finally get it!!! I have been saying this over and over for 2 weeks now. Yes, listen one more time and you will see here this comes in.
1)Corporate Taxes are lowered, thus they can hire a few more people to do somethings they were wanting to be able to do but did not have the overhead to hire someone to do that.
2)That new person joins the company and pays taxes, buys items to live and other companies have more demand for thier products so they hire more people to meet the demands of more products being purchased.
3) those employees for those companies do the same and the great commercial society we live in grows and spends more money, thus earning taxes for the government and profits for the businesses.
It is a slow process to start but hen it starts the growth is exponential.
And yes there are some companies that are greed and self-centered to the gains of the highest in charge or shareholders but there are some that are like mine owned by a single person (or sometimes a group) and we make a good living do not get me wrong I love nice cars, houses, vacation and giving my wife nice jewelry regularly but there are those of us that understand we are able to do that BECAUSE of our employees and we give back to them when we are doing well because of thier efforts!
I never said I hire more people than I need, I did not get this successful by doing unwise, unbusinesslike decisions. Some charity/generousity beyond the norm is good to stretch yourself but too much is foolishness.
You do something about the greed and self-centered companies and I would gladly help pressure the government to lower taxes. We come from two different worlds. I give 100% effort too the company I work for everyday because that was the way I was raised. What you claim and I see are total opposites.
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No it is not. But they can't win the conventional way so they fall back on ploys. No surprise. Here's another example of Liberal ethics and sense of fair play.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...008&no_ads=
Just another Liberal using connections to his advantage.
If you find the conservatives are lieing about this would talk about his ethics.
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is it ethical for a party to do this?
The conservatives are using to try a beat the bloc. I think is dumb myself because how can you believe the other voter that they will vote the way they say. I personally think that it should be banned because voters could be easily conned
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That is right Slim. See Independant you only gave 28%, I as a business owner ould expect 100% just like I give everyday.
And my employees profit when I do. Do some research into companies in Canada and the best to work for in this country. You'll find my companies there. They are voted for by the employees of those companies.
I am quite sure I do not work for your company because I live in the real world. Your claims about how generous companies are in general is simply unrealistic. Even if you are as generous as you say those companies are few and far between. Companies are driven for profit. Especially companies owned by shareholders. There is total disconect between employees and the people than run the company. I earn my money as I am sure you do too. But do not lie too people and tell them a business will hire more people if you drop there taxes. If you hire more people than you need then someone is not working at 100%. Start being a little more honest and then maybe someone would believe you. If more people have the money too buy your product then you would have to hire more people too produce that product. You make more money and everyone is happy.
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Harper does not plan on doing it all in 4 years like the Liberals do, he has a plan(yes more complicated) that outlines a longterm objective to make Canada wise on pollution and teach us to be a green nation yet not penalizing Big Business to the extremes that the Liberals do but still keeping them in check and making them learn and become more green in time.
Harper is a LONG TERM thinker and plans for a better Canada through slow and consistant changes not like the Liberals that think they will only have 1 term so e better rush it all at once to get it done in four years before we get our butts kicked out of power in 4 years and along the way we will hand as much of this "Green tax" money to our friends as possible and get as many under the table kickbacks and bribes to line our pockets as possible before we get the boot. (Yes that was a long one breath statement but that is the same thinking as the Liberals have on this matter.)
Vote Liberal and get bent over the desk, have your bankbook stolen, abused and beat up, called names that you are a polluter and then at the end of the day you will thank us because we have made you see you are truly a bad person and need our help to change. IT DOES NOT WORK LIKE THIS!!! That is Dion's plan and I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! That is what all the communist governments started like.
My Canada is smart enough to see through Dion's plan I hope!!
The plan is just as expensive and half as good. If you want to knock one party it is only fair you go after the others as well.
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These vote swapping sites, which I believe undermine the democtratic process, have been found to be run by the Liberals. Whether officially or unofficially are they lawful, and if run by a political party are they ethical?
I do not have the link right now. But I read that election canada investigated them and said that they were legal. There is nothing to prove who you actually vote for and conservatives are using it too.
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Hey Independant my businesses pay more in a year in taxes than you will make in your lifetime!!
Businesses do not hire more people or pay more than they need to
BUT Businesses that are doing well are going and NEED more employees, they reward their employees for helping them to be more profitable. That is what I do.
I NEVER said I was suffering (Except under the reign of John" I'll stab you in the back" Chretien).
Independant: You sound like the stereotypical 30 year employee of a union company that things the employer owes him the world and does not want to put more than 40% of your effort in to work for your employer.
"Business and money run the world, business profits and all will be better off for it. Penalize big business and all will suffer for it."
Last job evaluation I got they said I am making a 28% profit for the company. And know I did not profit from it.
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Fair enough, but they are just dirtty rumours designed specifically as character assasinations by conservative opponents.
That is what politics has become.
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I am so waiting fopr Dion to become Prime Minister and he lowers our "personal taxes" by say $10/year and then he bends every single Canadaian over his desk and gives them the big Carbon tax bill for $1,000 to $50,000 per person depending on your cash status. Wo that $10 is really going to help there.
Dion's wording and rules on what will have the carbon tax on it is so open ended and unclear he could add a 10% straight across the board carbon tax on almost anything and then keep upping the tax rate anytime he wants.
I cannot trust that lying Quebcec Liberal anymore than I could trust Trudaeu, Chretien or Paul Martin. You may all say the Liberals in the past have done such awesome stuff for this country but I have been around for 1/2 a century and I have not seen it.
You also want them to penalize BIG BUSINESS and make them pay all the taxes while removing or slashing taxes to the individual. Well this does not work either, basic economic history shows time and time again here big business is taxed to the brink it fails and business goes elsewhere then the tax burden is greater on the individual.
BUT history shows us when you lighten the tax rate on big business that big business profits more (not a bad thing, read on) then big business hires more people, big business (called BB from now on to save time) gives to charities more, BB pays more taxes because they made more money, BB gives better benefits to their employees, BB shows strength in economy so more companies come to that country because it is a good country to have investements in, BB promotes the country as an awesome place and then people come to vacation there and spend money, BB hires more people again and in turn more people are making more money so MORE TAXES
AND THEREFORE: the small amount you gave in tax breaks to the BB is now more than made up by income from other sources and the country as a whole is in a better place financially because of those tax breaks.
THIS IS ECONOMIC HISTORICAL FACT PEOPLE DO THE RESEARCH!!!!
The Liberals, NDP and the Greens say "Punish the big bad corporations for making money and polluting by taxing them to death" THIS WILL NOT WORK! BB will move away.
The Liberals, NDP and Green's plans sound awfully like the start of communist state to me personally!
And on the Enviroment, do a quick study on why Mars, Mecury, Earth and Jupiter are all having the smae climate change problem, is our polluting here on earth causing Mar's problems? NO, I challenge you it is the SUN and solar flare activity.
Would you give us a list of the businesses that hire people they do no need. That pay people more than they have to pay them. You telling me business people are that stupid. You want to complain about green plans include Harper in your list too. And stop acting like your suffering. You have said you run a successful business. You can pay your taxes like everybody else.
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Well what she said was very unfair to the grass roots people putting in all that work for her party.
The left are very selfish people.
What are they working for. They are fighting for the environment. Heck with party loyalty do what is best for Canada.
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Canada has little effect on the global warming.
Refer back to the Sept. 22 issue of Macleans, repected writer Andrew Coyne said,
"Global warming is a massive issue, but Canada's impact on it is marginal: whether we impose a carbon tax or not will make little difference to the earth."
Seems to me like a way to tax hard - working Canadians even more to provide for those who feel they are entitled a government funded living.
Wake up canadians. The environmental issues are blinding you to the real issues of the day.
The carbon tax will HURT you more than any other policy.
Canadian farmers should be extremely worried. Imagine the carbon taxes on the fuel and fertilizer you use?
The carbon tax is a meaningless cash grab that will hurt the middle class more than anyone.
Same author andrew Coyne says Harpers green plan is more complicated, just as expensive and half as good as the Liberal plan. All of the parties have a green plan.
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If I was a green suporter, I wouldn't be happy with this. Maybe it's just a fabrication though.
http://www.ottawasun.com/canadavotes/news/...-sun.html#print
http://calsun.canoe.ca/canadavotes/news/20...11/7054611.html
That depends whether your priority is the party or it really is for the environment that party vowed to protect.
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The carbon tax doesn't just tax people directly. Transportation, consumer goods etc ALL go up. I understand poor people have trouble being energy efficient. I understand they need to be helped a little. The 'help' in the case of a $20k/year income household with 2 kids, however, amounts to over 10% of their income back in refunds/credits/whatever at $2200. For myself, with a 40k income, I get $400/year back. I am not wasting energy. I live like half a block from work. My house is well insulated and new. The Green Shift doesn't care about this. The Green Shift aims to increase the cost of everything I buy through taxes and give a mathematically unjustifiable proportion of this back to people who can't find better work than Wall-Mart.
The Green Shift is NOT going to increase the cost of living for a poor family by 10%. I challenge anyone to provide ANY sort of justification for this. For this to be the case the increased taxes on energy for a poor family would have to account for over 10% of their income! Given this, why are they getting 10% of their income back via the Green Shift?
Income redistribution..........
You do not sound hard up.( new house). The people at walmart work hard for a living. Unless their spouse has a good job they likely renting. Why should I feel sorry for you. Everything they buy will go up in cost just as much for them as for you. Every cent they make usually goes right back into the economy. If you are getting $400/year back and live a block from work I see you being way ahead. I really do not see your expenses going up that much.
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I am perplexed by what motivates voters, I was listening to interviews with some Quebec voters who were very concerned about the economy and the "crisis", they were very critical of Harper without having anything tangible to complain about, yet when asked about who they would vote for they said the Bloc without being aware of any contradiction in their thought process. If they were actually concerned with the economy why would they vote for a separatist who will do nothing but cause division in the house of commons?
Chantal Hebert had an interesting comment about the arts funding thing, she thought it was hypocritical of the Bloc to be critical of any drop in federal funding for the quebec culture, since one would have assumed that federal funding to their culture would be dirty money.
Put the part about the Bloc being separatist aside. Duceppe is by far the best of the leaders and speaks for them. He understands what is important to them. If he was leader of a national party I would vote for him in a second. The Bloc have put separation on the back burner. Duceppe is clearly the right man for them.
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The Liberals sure were not there for me and my businesses like Chretien personally promised me. They have used this tactic for years and years but as soon as the Liberals are in power they are there for no one but themselves.
Vote for them now and in 1 months time be prepared to be bent over the desk and given a nice butthole stretching.
Don't drink the Liberal Kool-Aid, it'll kill you AND THIS COUNTRY!!!
You run a very successful business from what you said. Why do you need help from the government. Are you not making enough money.
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That's you being overly sensitive. I directed no insults to you. I apologize if my tone came off as condescending, but it took me about 25 tries to get you to even acknowledge my repeatedly asking you for an answer as to why the poor are the ones seeing (proportionally) a ludicrously high tax benefit compared to the rest of us.
This was the best answer you could provide me. What do you say to the fact that a family with 2 kids and a combined income of $20,000 stands to get about $2200 back from the Green Shift whereas a single person making 40k gets about 400? I understand that the poor have less flexibility with their income, but what that SHOULD mean is that they get their tax credits/refunds/reductions increased relative to how much it increases their cost of living. For this to be the case under the current formula, the Green Shift would have to raise carbon prices by over 10%. If that's what the Green Shift is going to do then it is going to be disastrous for the Canadian economy. If that's not happening, then this is income redistribution pure and simple.
Again Jdobbin, you're really just towing the party line here. I'm going over MATH with you and you're just repeating what you see Dion saying. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it true.
For the Green Shift to be anything less than income redistribution, someone making 60k a year should at LEAST get as much back as someone making 20k a year. This is 100% not the case. The only conclusion possible is that this is income redistribution. It's just increased taxes and the numbers show that. The economists and experts you have indicated who support the plan do so on the basis that it's an environmental plan that could reduce carbon emissions. NONE of them are refuting that this is income redistribution because economists work with numbers and they see this.
rich guy owns fuel efficient car. R2000 house.
poor guy drives a clunger that spits more gas out the back end than in burns. His house has very little insulation.
which guy gets taxed the higher.
Do you think in might be possible that someone with money is more able to cut back on emissions than the poor guy
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Whether he understood the question or not, is not the real issue about this incident. That's just superficial.
We're not talking about just another interview of a starlet in Hollywood. We're talking about this man who's vying for the position of leader of Canada. A leader expected to be quick-witted to handle any kind of situation, including the poorly-worded questionaire of one rather poorly-prepared journalist. The Liberal Party no doubt felt embarassed by that incident having their leader clumsily fumbling through a scenario that he should've been prepared to expect.
Think how Canadians would've felt if this interview happened on foreign soil with him as our Prime Minister.
Why isn't Dion prepared to face that kind of situation? He perfectly knows his weaknesses, doesn't he? After all he volunteered his alleged hearing problem where-in the English language is jumbled. It was bad enough that he was caught with his pants down....but worse, he did not know how to pull it up!
That interview plainly showed Dion is not quick to improvise or to maneuver out of a difficult or unexpected situation.
Betsy you firmly believe that the public is disgusted with Dion fumbling. By now you should have you party hat on.
If you are right then Harper is sure to get a huge Majority or you are supporting a leader that had everything going for him and still failed to get a majority. Get a picture of Dion and stomp on in. There is no way anyone is going too change your mind. Remember Dion is the guy who is a poor leader because his wife buys his underwear.
I do not cared if he fumbled or not. I have seen great quarterbacks fumble and end up winning the super bowl.
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Oh boy, quite an interesting turn. And equally ironic too since this time, the report's by the expert hired by the Liberals!
I am missing something. I read that the report is inconclusive. It cannot be proved whether the tape was intact or not. IF the tape was tampered with it would have too have been in a sophisticated laboratory.
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You all make excellent points. Sorry if I was wrong that newspapers didn't express opinions in the past... my bad. But is it not... "worse" now? It's not even attempted to hide the fact that opinions are being expressed. Wait... maybe that's better.
Never the less, given that our education system has failed, leading to people who are too lazy or incapable of critical investigation... or that our advertising culture has numbed the senses so much that people avoid such levels of thinking... wouldn't it be ideal for somebody to produce a newspaper that was just pure information? (As close to that as it could be).
I've heard that Al-Jazeera (spelling) is pretty objective. (If I were in front of this audience I'd be ducking right now!!)
The general voter pays more attention too frighting political ads with no content than what is said in the paper. The election is about scare tactics and emotion than the leaders talking about their own platforms. Till the public gets fed up with negative politics our system will remain a shambles. The media cannot be blamed for jumping in. That is what sells papers. I believe if the public doesn't start thinking for themselves they deserve what they get.
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Doesn't anybody find it... perverse, that media outlets designed to enlighten the public with objective (as much as is possible) reports of the happenings of the world are now factories of opinion? Are people incapable of developing their own opinion based on information that they must choose a newspaper that they agree with? Does everyone agree ALL the time??? NO!! So how can one trust any particular newspaper/tv station all the time?
It's a Brave New World indeed.
An article without biases would be boring. The Media outlet would not sell. You are usually able to read both sides of the story. It is not hard as a reader to eliminate the sensationalism. The posters that read only Left leaning articles or right leaning articles lack the true perspective too make sound decisions. Even if you are soundly conservative it would not hurt to reflect on left leaning views to see if your party needs some improving. There seems to be a lot of posters with a blind loyalty to their party that makes their opinions look mute.
Impact of the Stock Market on Voting
in Federal Politics in Canada
Posted
Maybe Harper is in the wrong line of work and should be just an investment advisor instead of Prime Minister that should be concerned about people losing his job. Anybody with even smallest knowledge of stocks knew there were undervalued stocks.