JCAN

Sorry it was not aimed at you. CR & DM are the targets. As for a hick I happen to travel through Europe Germany, Switzerland France, Italy to name a few almost every year for the last 5 years "to visit inlaws" I have seen much of Canada and the States my next trip will take me to Japan so I feel that though I may have come from the north I Have Experienced enough to have pushed my opinions past that of a hick, I currently live in Winnipeg now for about 8 years 3 of which were downtown york & smith I have seen what happens in the north I have seen what happens in urban cities. Some in this forum I get the distinct feeling that they have not gone much further into this world than their front door which explains their heliocentric ideas. I have also seen what happens with different people in different countries their opinions on things such as the German wall, the turks, Jewish, and other internal conflicts and I see and hear what other countries think of our situation. In Germany post secondary education is all but free to everyone . Since the fall of the Berlin wall there has been some problems because now you have one part of a country responsible for bringing the other up to date and building an infrastructure this is not a bad thing because with in a generation or so these issues will be fixed. It is a lot like our own situation but the difference here is we do not have a plan to fix it as long as one group is supported by the other this country will be doomed to fail it is only a matter of time. If all were educated our country would be more prospurous in turn so would we. Believe it or not there are white, black, and brown people and many others that cannot afford a secondary education. If this is to ever be fixed the Native nation will have to learn to stand on their own to feet, scary as that might be for them it is the best for all even them thought they can not see this yet. I did have some spelling mistakes I appoligize for that but my opinion is still the same and is a more founded one then some others who will always resort to the name calling because that is what children will do. I do how ever look forward to more from jbg and once again I apologize for the miss understanding.

It is too bad there is not more intelligent conversationalists out here, I guess it is easier to be crass and stupid than to come up with something intelligent to say, to bad for us I guess there was some interesting people to Talk to Angus and the rest I mean but I understand their lack of interest due to the lack of intelligence we have all witnessed cheap shots and childish names aside DM, CR keep the Indian race down with their lack of smarts and scope wisdom. I grew up in the north on & near reserves I have always believed we were equal all given the same opportunities some more than others, and as Darwin said survival of the fitst I have no patience for welfare cases including my white sister we all have a chance to be better do with it what you will. If you do not take advantage than you deserve what you get no mater race or birth right, those that whine about what is owed should remember that as before we can take what we want when we want again any time weather it is right or not and leagaly or not it can and will happen your ancestors gave away the farm get used to it we owe nothing because they were to stupid to understand what was happening welcome to the world of ebay and as I have said before which you are to stupid to understand or argue against we all come from Africa genetically so you have no more claim to this land than any white or black person so shut up or eventually we will shut you up. you are stupid CR & DM so accept it and go back to the minor leagues where you belong

Thanks for making my point clear as for you and DM you can both get as serious as you like it will still amount to nothing, and still have no point.

I will just say what we all are thinking SHUT UP. We are all tired of your verbal diarrhea you try to pass off as intelligible which it is not you rely on the same tired argument and say nothing you are either a politician or an invalid either way it is the same thing, you and DM can live in your quaint little world of make believe but unless you can start to back up anything, answer some basic questions posed or be constructive keep it shut.

I have a great idea lets abolish the Indian act and give all the Indian's the same rights as us white people have, the right to pay taxes, work for their money and build their own houses. Then we will all be truly equal.

I will just say this one thing perceived debts and what some think is right can all be change. If some might remember the Brits owned America at one point and the proud FN did not have much to say then, for that matter when the locals got sick of being over taxed and no accountability the Brits could not say much to stop the new Americans either and it can happen again if some are pushed to far at that point none of the history will mean shit. the dust will settle and I think we all know who would win this one CANADA has at least a small organize army the FN do not even have that. there is a teetering balance and it will need to be handled delicately to avoid such things.

Hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! LOL laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif What? Truth hurts? I think maybe it does which is why you still have not answered any of the basic questions I can see you will always be living in your small little box I guess I can not blame you it must be cozy in there. keep the dream alive and good luck with that if I ever see you have anything worth replying to you might be lucky enough to hear from me again.

I THINK YOU SHOULD QUIT PICKING OUT THE ONE THING IN EVERYONES STATEMENTS TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH AND LOOK AT THEM IN THEIR COMPLETE CONTEXT. YOU NEVER ONCE BOTHER TO LOOK AT A SIMPLE STATEMENT LIKE THE NATIVES SAY THAT THEY OR NO ONE ELSE SHOULD OWN THE LAND IN THEIR CULTURE YET THEY SEEM TO MAKE SOME BIG CLAIMS FOR IT. ALL I HAVE SEEN YOU DO IS SPOUT OFF THE SAME SENTENCES THE WHOLE TIME. THE PROBLEMS AT ISSUE IS THEY ARE OUT DATED AND DO NOT FIT INTO TODAYS CULTURE IT IS NOT ONLY EUROPEANS HERE NOW WHAT ABOUT ALL THE ASIAN AFRICAN AND MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE LIVING HERE THEY DID NOT TAKE THE LAND AND YET DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO PICK UP AND MOVE ON WHEN OUR GOVERNMENT GIVES OR CONTINUE TO SUPPORT NATIVE AFFAIRS. THE AFFAIRS OF OUR FOREFATHERS SHOULD BE THROWN AWAY IF YOU KEEP THINKING OLD AND INSIDE THE SMALL LITTLE BOX YOU LIVE IN NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNTIL IT ERUPTS INTO SOMETHING THAT WILL BENEFIT NO ONE.WE HAVE TO ALL REMEMBER THE WORLD HAS BECOME A SMALLER PLACE AND WHAT HAPPENED 200+ YEARS AGO CANNOT DICTATE POLICY IF SO WE WILL STILL BE TYPING 4000YRS FROM NOW WHEN WE ARE NOT SHOOTING EACH OTHER LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD IT IS ONLY A MATER OF TIME. I AM QUIT SURE IF THIS HAPPENS WE WILL ALL REGRET IT BUT I AM ALSO SURE THE 6 NATIONS WILL NOT WIN THIS ONE EITHER. I GREW UP IN NORTHER COMMUNITIES AND I HAVE NATIVE, ASIAN, AFRICAN, EUROPEAN, AND MANY OTHER FRIENDS NONE OF WHICH ARE TROPHIES, THAT FACT THAT YOU WOULD SAY SUCH A THING JUST SHOWS YOUR IGNORANCE I APOLOGIZE TO ALL FOR MY OUT BURST BUT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS FANATICS RUNNING ON ABOUT THE SAME OLD THINGS AND NOT HAVING ANY CONSTRUCTIVE THINGS TO SAY.

I agree. with AngusThermopyle Most of this stuff is being dug up from before Canada itself was ruled by Canadians and not the British empire. Listening to the bickering over 200yr old documents I think I know why they left it all behind. If someone has stats on just what the king sold or had given away I would like to see them because from the looks of the above document the King was saying they could keep what he did not want and I am sure he wanted a lot. The fact is if the British came to Canada in the 1800's the natives would get nothing I believe that what they are asking for is less about history and more about greed. I am quite sure the original treaties did not promise them all the benefits the are getting now, these came about by later revisions yet if there is any talk about revisions other than what they want there is an uproar. I have heard that in traditional native believe the idea is prevalent that know one can own the land yet they claim too, so where does the interest in maintaining culture start, and financial gain begin. Because if this is about financial gain then we need to treat this like a business deal. (just some food for thought) But I digress the fact is much has changed since the time our ancestors arrived here and people need to start taking that into account this is not the same world it was when these original documents were written some things just do not apply. there has been a lot of development done to this country by many different people and you can not apply inflation of that scale to the original treaty. Our government did not sign that paper a King did we are no longer a Monarchy things change and all must accept that.

Well first off I do have a deed for my land, and when I sell it I will not be able to come back to the new owners and demand it back or ask for compensation because I made a bad deal. Besides I am sure if I went back to Africa demanding my fair share they would laugh me right back to Canada. I am sure that if my little piece of land was taken by a nation 100's of years ago, it would be theirs and I could do nothing about it . It may not be right and there would be some issues with it now but that is what happened. our generation or future ones should not have to continue to make recompense for what someone did centuries ago. My point is you are living in the past with a syclical argument. This is not the way we do things now so why should people including our Government be made to give up land that the Natives do not have right to anymore historical or other wise. the idea that they have claims in for 110% of BC is ludicrous. As I said before we should all be happy with what we have if you want more pay for it like I did with money that I earned. If someone did try to take my land I would fight for it and if I lost I am sure they would not give it back or pay me for it. there will always be some who have more than others but we should all have a fair shot at attaining our goals and being prosperous As long as people keep thinking about who has original ownership over every piece of land in this world we will never over come the turmoil and wars that have plagued this world for no good reason. We could learn a lot from the European union, less than 80yrs ago Germany was invading all of Europe now there are no borders between them and France and Switzerland being an hour away is quite relaxed with theirs. The German people are not asked to pay restitution to those that it wronged and yet those people are still successful and not poverty stricken they can afford to give their citizens all but free post secondary education which is why they are known for producing some of the greatest minds. Lands have changed hands there hundreds of times over the centuries yet through out most of Europe there is no bickering about who was there first or who owns what I would think that with Canada being the size it is we could find an amicable solution for all.

I disagree at the heart of the situation for most it is about race and color they did not originate here either so they have no more claim to it than any one else if that were the case we would see examples of it all over the world. As I had said earlier we are talking about the past at no point in history has a nation that had for a lack of better term (conquered) another including native conflicts and then over the subsequent years support them and give them all of the land back. If we continue this way what will eventually happen is the same as you see in the middle east, people will get tired of watching everything they work for be given or taken away and we will have civil war and then we can squabble over it for 4000 or so years and I am sure none of us want that. What I am saying is we have all been here for a long time and we should keep what we have and move on to something more productive than arguing if we have given them enough, it is the same tired over used excuse and if it is the only one that people can come up with then the hope of any change is gone.

I know that we cannot just ignore the original treaties, the fact that we have not is a testament to our peacefulness, but we do have to draw a line and the only way we will not eventually be pushed into civil war is to find a balance and end it there. As long as the Government keeps giving all will keep on taking, it is a fact human nature. I find that a lot of these discussions get tied up in legal rights and wrongs we need to think past that and move on and start looking for a viable change, it is obvious that passing more laws and giving more land and so on is not ever going to work. The only way to remove the stigmas is to make all equal on every level, to do anything else is to be racist, we need to stop seeing colors and start seeing Canadians we are all here now no mater what happened in the past and we must act so accordingly. Our generation is at an impasse and we owe it to our future generations to start doing something now so that we can continue to have a great country. I believe that if we all work together towards a common goal we can continue to offer health care and maybe even afford free education for all, we would be a richer more educated country. One thing that all seem to forget is that we are a unique country were we have plenty of land water and other resources we are one of if not the only country that could be self sufficient if we were cut off from the rest of the world(I hope this does not happen), yet we are one of the weakest markets as far as 1st world countries go. This is because of a lack of population and the division in our country which causes us to spend money to keep people happy rather than to develop our nation as a whole. I hope I live to see some of these changes come to pass, but if not I hope that we can all be part of the first step towards them.

I will leave it with you to figure out, and when you find out why it is not the truth you will understand. Good Luck!

I appreciate how what I said might have come across that way but what I am saying is that the best way to understand oneself is to open your mind to all cultures so that your opinions are not based on a heliocentric idea. There are more problems still in this world than just our own here but at the end of the day if we are always focusing on everyone else we will never fix the ones right here at home. My family has been in Canada for many generations, I am married to a European who only holds resident status and does not intend to become a citizen we travel back every year and I enjoy my time there but I will always be Canadian with all its faults and greatness. I am just another person with an opinion like all tend to have but I do try to better myself and my country always. I appreciate the intelligent questions answers and hope that at the end of the day I contribute something.

The so called natives of this land came to it by walking across a land bridge or in some cases a small raft or boat from Africa, Asia, and possibly even Europe, I am sure they were no cleaner than the later immigrants that came. You might want to read what I have written again I mention all of us working together on a fair and equal playing field I know that might be scary for some but there comes a time in everyones life that they must leave the safety of the proverbial nest. my statements have a lot less bigotry in them than yours, and they are based in science and good will to all Canadians regardless of race, religion or color. This is the sort of unintelligent answers I expected, I guess this is why most do not bother to waste their time. Good luck not changing anything. you might want to read a little bit closer next time and it might not hurt to travel a bit and experience more cultures before you speak next time

I have paid for my land and you are welcome to try but as in the past should you try and win it is yours to have whether I like it or not the same as it was in all examples except in Canadian history, but if you should fail then you can keep on moving to the next chunk of land and try again. Although that is not what I am saying at all, if it were we could all go back to wherever we came from and demand such things. My point is we have now established boundaries in this country and enough is enough we should all keep what we have and move on there is no reason to continue supporting a nation when it has clearly not worked to theirs or our benefit if we were all responsible for our own we would all be much better off in time. There are other support systems in place to help all Canadians in the meantime, that is not to say our welfare system is perfect but it is a step in the right direction if some should need it. I believe that there are many native Canadians that are well educated and contribute allot to society and as in all cultures some will succeed and some will fail but if we work towards making it a united Canada without preferential treatment to any we as a people will all have a better chance to succeed. After some rough times I am sure all will be better off even though the future generations would benefit from it the most I think at some point someone must make the tough decisions and unfortunately we have become complacent with the situation it is easier to do nothing then to change. I do not have all the answers and I am sure neither does anyone else but it is time that our country as a whole looks at the situation seriously and starts to change for the betterment of all and the future.

I am new to this forum but I have a simple question, Why do we continue to pay for the natives when they as well as we did not originate to this continent it is genetically proven that we all originated from the African region, therefore we are all immigrants. This being the case we have as much right as anyone to this land. we should all have equal rights to pay taxes and earn a living.