northstar

JMHI can understand were you are coming from in the inital post, because it would be great if it was that simple and we could just walk away... However, l noticed someone already addressed the "pagan" issue in that these religions are not Pagan. The Jews and Christians of Isreal, have not ever been Pagan. And the Muslims, they follow the dellussioned Mohammad, who basically hijacked the Torah and Bible and gave his own spin on things...ala schizoprenia...that was later, much later made into a book, Quran, when it suited the warlord leaders to gather followers and troops... [okay, this possibly could be a form of Paganism, since Allah is actually the Moon God, as admitted by Muslim Scholars} If you think the Quran can ever be 'evolved' l suggest you take the time to read it...you can start with the chapter 9:11... I counted over 150 verses of hatred and teachings of violence, torture and how all inifdels need to be wiped off of the face of this earth...so l would be interested in hearing how exactly the Quran can be evolved. In regard to walking away from the existing conflict their is the little snag...Nuclear warheads in the hands of Terrorists. These Terrorists have vowed to wipe Isreal off of the map. They are raising children for Marytr-dom. In the past they had Yassar purchase the human weapons {$25,000/relative]. The roots of the terrorists are those of a fanatical faith to a 'religion' [some call a cult] that justifies actions of violence, of pretending peace as a way to manipulate a situation so they can take over, of brainwashing children to become either parents of weapons or weapons themselves, of torture, of extortion, of having sexual relations with children [which we prosecute as peophilia and child abuse], and a socieal structure that ridgidly supports and promotes all of this. The difficulty of pulling out is hard enough, if, heaven-forbid it should happen. However the main issue here is the leadership of these Palestine and Lebanon is at the hands of Hezzbollah and Hamas both terrorist organizations with a long, long history of not settling, not taking the opportunity of peace when it was available, and not being trustworthy. The enormous problem that is faced currently in the middle-east is that terrorists have nuclear warheads, or they are very close. The doctarines of a fanatical hatred lead by tribal and religious roots makes this a very sinister situation which can NOT be addressed by leaving them to their own devices. So far the only consistant message that the Terrorists are sincere about, and can be counted on is that they will stop at NOTHING in order to destroy Israel and to destroy all those who have refused to tolerate acts of terrorism and hatred. That will be just about every other country in the world...

really...if it is 'so what' then why did you start the thread...a little moronic of you since you are unable to contribute anything but ignorant statements when someone contributes...

First, the BBC reports that this began with, completely show the Hypocracy of the Muslims' statements. First, the Islamists are stating that it is okay to terrorize with Suicide Bombers in one place but not okay if it is in another. i.e. this statement is not applicable in Kashmir and Palestine, in these places terrorism is fine and dandy. Then, the Islamists state that if it is interrupting the Muslims Service it is 'deplorable'. However the deception, SCRIPTURALLY APPROVED BY THE QURAN, is found in the next paragraph, You know, this is soooo true to a good little Jihad, Mohammad taught deception. You go in peace, and then demand conversion, no conversion, oh no problem we will enslave children, and extort you so we can have a nice MECCA, or we might just kill you...all in the name of ALLAH. So we can clearly see that once it is acknowledged to be deplorable, it is then acceptable to blow yourself up and murder innocent people in the name of ALLAH if it is "a freedom struggle"....tricky little play on words, Mohammad would be proud. This Muslimism is justified by sura 9:5: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)....." and sura 5:33: "For those who do not submit to Allah their punishment is . . . execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land". Naturally, the Quran is more definate and to the point, issuing out instructions, 161 of them, on what will befall the non-Muslims, should they not convert...so Suicide Bombers are scripturally approved and rewarded.

Well, some political tight-rope walking is required for the POPE who is suppose to be walking in the footsteps of Jesus... I mean he can hardly come out and say "they are all part of a cult", or that "it was written by an irrational petophile", or "What happened folks, is that Abraham had two sons, one who carried on being good and responsible...then the other was the nasty dirtyone called Mohammad, who wanted to justify his criminal activities, who wanted to justify having children as brides, and then little boys for a thrill, because you see folks, Mohammad was a tyranical power hungry war lord, who manipulated people to thinking he was coming in peace. In fact, he admits to this being manipulation and untrue, and he grows his cells until he is in the position to demand. The demands are three choices for the infidels, [non-Muslims] die, be extorted like good little slaves, or convert. So you see folks, they are a cult..." So this is an example of what the Pope could say if he wanted to give the world one clear understanding of how this violent, bloody religion that has been motivating this world terrorism is seen as a ALLAH cult following... Do you truly believe that it is fair to expect one man who represents a portion of the world's religion should really take on this task? The thing is that their are wonderful kind hearted Muslims, who by the place in which they were born, were raised to believe that this was the only way to live. Now the wise ones of this group are checking the Quran to see how it is peaceful. One such Muslim recognized the roots where in the Christian faith and has sinced changed to Christinanity, and oh, he has a bounty of $6 million on his head....

THANKS Margrace for coming forth with this issue. Betsy you acknowledged the Female Genital Mutation and inquired what do l suggest we do. Like this topic is very important to address, so are the combined prejudices against women from the most serious to those from our trusted diplomates. The FGM is currently tracked internationally, although it has been found in the Middle East, Asia and Africa where children are barbarically mutilated to make them more desirable for marriage. Understanding and acknowledging that these crimes are occuring and being supported by cultural and religious reasons is the intial step to begin change. The Natasha's is acknowledging a very real situation in which women over 1 million women and children are raped, abused and sometimes murdered in our world. Why does this exist? The law of supply and demand. And the demand is mainly men, the victims mainly women. Again the first step is to recognize the problem, the next is refuse to support it, and the third is to get involved to make others understand it and work to get it acknowledged by our leaders. The beginning is taking this as a serious problem... here is an excerpt by Christopher Guly Special to The Ukrainian Weekly OTTAWA - Over an award-winning career that spans 34 years, Canadian investigative journalist Victor Malarek has written books about his life growing up on the streets of Montreal, the plight of Canada's immigration policy and an "inside look" at the country's illegal drug scene. Yet none of them were as disturbing to compile as his fifth and latest book about the trafficking of women and girls for sex. In "The Natashas: The New Global Sex Trade" (Viking Canada, $36 Canadian; negotiations are under way for a U.S. print run and an international film), Mr. Malarek estimates that of the 1 million young women sold worldwide for sex every year, one-quarter come from Eastern Europe, including about 100,000 from Ukraine alone. "As soon as the Iron Curtain crumbled, organized crime replaced it with a plastic zipper," Mr. Malarek said in an interview. "Eastern European women did not register on the prostitution market. But in just over a decade, they went from nothing to 250,000 of them out there in the flesh trade," he noted. Known as "Natashas," primarily in the Middle East where men consider them all to be Russian, girls as young as 10 years of age are shipped all over the world. As Mr. Malarek's book explains, they line the streets of the red-light districts in Austria, Italy, Belgium and Holland; "stock" the brothels in South Korea, Japan and Bosnia; work nude in massage parlors in Canada and England; are locked up as sex slaves in apartments in the United Arab Emirates, Germany, Israel and Greece; and star in peep shows and seedy strip clubs in the United States. Ukrainian women are usually taken to Belgrade through Hungary and then distributed to Bosnia or Italy, according to Mr. Malarek. Or, they end up working as prostitutes in the United States via Mexico as several did in an elaborate human smuggling scheme that resulted in murder and rape and an FBI investigation a few years ago. If the women aren't smuggled into a country, they often enter under visitor visas or as refugee claimants. Though Canada is a "minor player" compared to the volume flowing to the U.S., Western Europe or Israel, they can apply here for a special entry permit as exotic dancers. More often than not, the women never dream of becoming prostitutes. "They think they're going to be waitresses, nannies, work in a hotel, that kind of thing. Then they get busted and broken," said Mr. Malarek, who spoke here at the National Arts Center on October 21 at an event sponsored by bookstore chain Nicholas Hoare Ltd. and the Ukrainian Professional and Business Association of Ottawa. "Once women are beaten into submission, they never question their pimps after that. They do as he says or he will kill them, and the other girls see it," the journalist continued. An 18-year-old Romanian whom Mr. Malarek calls "Sophia" in "The Natashas" (all the women's names are changed to "ensure that they do not endure further humiliation or embarrassment") told him about the so-called breaking grounds of Serbia. Young girls from Ukraine and other former East Bloc nations watched in horror as "very mean and ugly men" raped some of them. "Those who resisted were beaten," Sophia said. "If they did not cooperate, they were locked in dark cellars with rats with no food or water for three days." Many attempted suicide. Sophia recalled a "very beautiful" Ukrainian girl who had refused to submit to the men in charge of the center. "They beat her, burned her with cigarettes all over her arms," she said. "They hit her with their fists. They kicked her over and over. Then she went unconscious [and] just lay there, and they still attacked her anally. When they finished, she didn't move. She wasn't breathing. There was no worry on the faces of the owners. They simply carried her out." Sophia and her compatriots assumed that the Ukrainian was buried in a fresh mound of earth in a nearby forest. "On her third day of captivity," Mr. Malarek writes, "Sophia was 'trained.'" He said that horrific stories like that abound where women who refuse to acquiesce die as the result of being thrown off balconies or receiving severe beatings. Those who submit don't last very long, said Mr. Malarek, whose grandparents are from Ukraine. "The market eats them up voraciously and uses them for six months, where sometimes women are servicing 20 or 30 men a day. Then they are tossed out like a used dishrag or dumped on a side road because there's plenty more where they came from. It's a sense of, 'you're used; you're gone. Get out of here.'" He explained that the "vast majority" of these young Eastern European women involved in the sex trade are sent home with sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV. For their services, men pay anywhere from $30 to $200 (U.S.), depending on the look or the age of the girls or women, who see none of that money. "They're lucky if they get a hamburger to eat a day," said Mr. Malarek. But the gangs involved in this global trafficking network earn "huge" profits, he added. Mr. Malarek said that women can sell anywhere from $500 to $10,000 U.S., and pimps can make back their investment in less than a week. "This is a $12-billion-U.S.-a-year industry, and it represents the world's third largest criminal money-making venture behind drugs and weapons," he stated. Yet little is being done to stop it. the rest can be found here- www.ukrweekly.com/Archive/2003/510306.shtml

pucket ruckettalk about building a bridge in order to whine...what a bunch a whewy!!!!!!!!!!!!YOU ARE JUST NOT READY TO MAKE NICE... I recently caught the Dixie Chicklets on Oprah, and I really like the two nice ladies who obviously don't appreciate the blond nit-whit. This is such a publicity stunt, and so they plead that they are victims. The songs video is very telling as you see the face of not a beautiful mature woman, but a spoilt little brat... I really can't stand them, and l don't like the sound of their voices, either when singing or whinning...

even apologizing for the term Jihad and Holy war is the correct thing to do because he is called to be HUMBLE, so while the terrorist groups continue to say this is actions of Jihad and a Holy War, and there is plenty of arguement that he was absolutely correct in his terms, he can still offer an apology. The more complains and riots and acts against our social values are lodged, the more Mulsims are creating their own problems. There is a saying, 'you teach others how to treat you'. Here is an example. Constant demands {the olympics being re-scheduled for them], mis-use of tax payors dollars to go against social values {court case of the UK teacher], discrimination and intolerance of others religious values {the airline stewardess on AIR INDIA} the terrorist evading police in a burka {London}, the lack of integrity in the Mosques {toronto mosque supporting terrorist activities}, this is all examples of the way the Muslim faith is building a appearance to the public which is eventually going to do a lot of harm. So to get back to the topic, the POPE is rising to his position in being kind and tolerant and in this way the vile actions of the Muslims' are truly being shown, IT IS BRILLIANT!!!

--leaflessYou don't ahve to be a Catholic to READ. I suggest you actually READ the speech and READ the response you nit-whit!!! Then you might have a contributing comment that makes sense...and I am not supporting the Religon, only the truth of the matter, and that is that the Muslims' once again are creating their own problem by complaining and criticising our society, and those leaders who have the courage to offer a fig leaf to the followers of Islam. If you READ the speech,, you will notice that the Pope uses a quote from the 15th century, that is because he had to go that far back to find a statement that supports peace. The teachings of Mohammad where not applicable because they are actions of peace in a manipulative sense, in order to take over other countries, murdering and pilaging as they go. Then the apology was actually for any mis-conceptions about the speech. I was happy because I felt he was completely wrong to make such a referance. It was incorrect, since this IS indeed a religion that is violent. And the actions of Muslims showed clearly that even today they are intolerant and disrespectful of the very societies they chose to live in. They showed that they are contemptuous and had no problem showing hatred in the rioting, demonstrations and burning of effigies, and the complete patronizing attitude of the political leaders in demanding that it was not enough. The Muslim community showed in it's recent reactions that violence is very much alive in the Islamic culture in the murder of an innocent old lady who was careing for sick children [the murder of the nun]. In my opinion the Pope should have stated the truth and quoted the Quran that has over 160 punishments for the world of non-Muslims. However then he would have received the same treatment as anyone else who exercises their right of freedom of speech, the Islamic tradition of controlling and stifling freedom, a multi-million dollar bounty on his head. So for the Pope to offer an olive branch, he is displaying by action the tolerance that will lead to Muslims' taking a good hard look at the Quran and recognizing that it is all about intolerance, peophilia, hatred and violence. The Pope is doing his job and acting like Jesus. My opinion is based on the facts, NOT a religious belief.

Just be grateful you are not Muslim, Wife beating is supported by Holy Scriptures and when you go into paradise men can have any type of virgins, Young VIRGINAL boys are waiting in Allah's heaven, as stated in the Quran . This is the underlying problem in the Middle EAST, a religon that supports such barbaric treatment of women and children. Fortunately for us, with all the suicide bombers they are reporting to be fresh out...........

And here is an example of who the Pope should really be- http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=75...p;id=1563542006

In regard of women being discriminated against it is indeed world wide and l thnk you for bringing it to the forum. This is a vital issue in that it is linked with assorted sex crimes against children, and in not addressing the issue, it continues. The FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION is one such crime against children and women worldwide and primarily found in Islamic -based cultures. This is a disgusting practice that is traumatic and sometimes leads to complications and death. The lastest Stats are 160 million women world wide, the majority being Muslim.

I disagree, it is an important point and one that shouldn't be swept under the carpet. Women and children are still being treated as second class citizens. This is unacceptable behaviour and will not be tolerated! It is not alleged, as there is a tape of what he said, and it is more than juvenile, it is discrimination. The cost of such intolerance and discrimination is going to be every woman in the country voting for The parties of these two women. If you just sweep it under the table with such a down-playing statement you are in the same catagory as the sexist jerk who made these discriminatory comments.

The Jihad Muslims' are facing the kindness of Christianity in the Leadership of the Pope. It doesn't mean he agrees, it is important that he shows kindness, since a lot of Muslims' in the free World are searching their Qur'ans and other 'guides' in Holy Scriptures of Islam, and recognizing that the PEACE that is referred to is only the manipulative peace that is used to pretend to tolerate NON-Muslim religions and social values. As Mohammad teaches the followers of Islam, peace is a means to go out to other countries and try to convert others to Islamic teachings, if they accept Allah as the one true God, then they will be spared, otherwise they will suffer 'scourging' , murder or extortion at the hands of the Muslims' who are the righteous ones. As they study the Isalmic Holy Scriptures and recognize that line after line {161 at my last count} holds threats, support and teachings of to justify Wife abuse, Child abuse, peophilia, rape, violent death and torture and destruction to those who do not convert or give in to extortion--then where have they to turn. The choice to find an alternative has to be supported because it could cost them their life. Recently a Muslim did just this and searched the Quran for such a way to a peaceful existance that embraced our values and society, he looked and looked, then he found an answer and converted to Christianity. Now he has a bounty of 6 million dollars on his head. The law of islam does not tolerate freedom of speech and is in direct conflict with the criminal code of our country, and of other countires of the free world. When scholars say that the Quran is now replaced with the Hadith, they neglect to point out the understanding amongst Muslims' that when the Hadith contridicts the Quran, the Quran's teachings are final. Thus the Quran is the fundemental teaching of all Muslims and they are all called to be Jihad which in arabic means 'resistance. The Muslim scholars will point our that this means the internal conflict raised by the teachings of the Holy scriptures, but they fail to point out the words that are causing the conflict. [and l would be happy to provide examples from the Quran} So the Pope's act was that of a leader, being courageous, yet again, and trying to offer these violent people a way that will support human rights and peace. I believe we should be wise about the situation but always offer a way to be a part of our community, regardless of whether it is Buddist, Christian, Jewish or Aethist, we need to continue to be the generous and free country we have always been, except with the constant threats we need to learn to defend our freedom and the values of our country. That means that intolerance and discrimination against our communities will not be tolerated.