New Zeal

Dude, the Iraqis are getting ready to strike back at the US invaders who have destroyed their infrastructure, randomly bombed their cities, killed their families and want to take their oil. Dude, they're not interested in civil war, they want their country back. Dude, the Iraqi soldiers are playing Mum while they check out where the US keeps their munitions, how the bases are laid out, where their weak spots are. Dude, the Iraqis are waiting for the right moment to strike, while Bush's leadership falters and the US troops are at their most vulnerable. Dude, 70% of the GIs in Iraq want out, because they don't know who is their friend and who is going to knife them behind the back tomorrow. Dude, the US forces in Iraq are teaching the army the very skills they need to push the US out of the country. Dude...

Monty, Right now most of the GIs serving in Iraq want out. They know something that you don't know, Monty, apart from "knowing that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 bombing and that they are there to rout al Qai'da". (more Bush propaganda) The GIs in Iraq are not flush with the same patriotic fervour which your armchair TV position gives you. They do not share the same confidence about the situation where they are stationed. The GIs in Iraq are training an army of soldiers consisting of people whose infrastructure the US have randomly bombed, whose family members they have killed, and whose country they have brought to a standstill. The GIs are scared that the very people they are training will turn around and kill them. They do not know who to consider as friend or foe. One day the Iraqi soldiers may well turn around and kill the men who have trained them. The US have been there long enough for them to know their weaknesses well. They only have to use the very techniques they are being taught to stage a military takeover. Unlike the GIs who are fighting 9 to 5 and have their families safely tucked back at home, the Iraqis are fighting for their survival and their land.

Iraq has served its purpose. (The history of 2006, written in the future tense.) Note: this is a hypothetical scenario The invasion of Iraq plus the cartoon fiasco have successfully galvanized Muslim resistance to continued US/UK intervention in the Middle East. In the face of the collapsing situation in Iraq, Iran will take the opportunity to invade Iraq along with support that it has spent two years fostering from within the beleaguered nation. If the US are lucky they may get out of the country without thousands of their troops being slaughtered in retaliation for the relentless bombing. While the US are still reeling from their withdrawal and combat morale is low, Iran will fall upon the weak and wealthy Gulf states of UAE seizing their assets, garroting the Shah of Abhu Dabi and chasing the sheik of Dubai back to London. Having learnt the lessons of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1991, they will then quickly and efficiently move into Saudi Arabia with the help of a quickly formed (and US trained) Iraqi force, taking Riyadh and the holy cities before the Saudis can act to rally a strong enough ally to fight with them. Weakened morally and militarily by the war in Iraq, and not having a necessary defence alliance in place (or more importantly having the disagreement with them over Iraq still in place) the US will not be in a position to offer more than a half pie contingent. This will be exacerbated by Bush dithering and dallying, paralysed by fear, incompetence, and a leadership challenge, long enough for the Muslim uprising to reach the borders of Israel, before the US does anything. This will be aided and abetted by plenty of support from ordinary Saudis rising up against US supported monarchic regimes. Once the whole of Saudi Arabia is in their hands, the invaders will be secure in the knowledge of the experience of Iraq that the US will not attempt to retake it. The US will be powerless to do anything. Its government will be in disarray. It will not be able to get a mandate from the UN for any action. It will not be able to carry out any random bombing because it will have run out of credible excuses in the face of global opinion. The experience in Iraq will mean that it will certainly not have the resolve to re-invade. Under strong leadership and with a common enemy in the US, tribal differences will be quickly overcome and a stable federation formed between the different ME countries. Order in Iraq will be restored and it will start rebuilding and pumping oil. Strong trade links with China, Russia, Germany, France and other nations not involved in the Coalition of the Willing, will ensure that this new Islamic Caliphate prospers. In the rich Gulf states it will be business as usual, politics and business remaining separate, and the 95% of Dubai who are expats will continue to do work there under protection of the Caliph. The UAE will continue to be wealthy, but now ruled by different masters. Israel, no longer a big fish in a small pond will be a small fish with a rather large shark on its tail. However it will continue to exist in an uneasy truce with its larger adversary. The prospect of emigrating direct from New York to Tel Aviv will no longer hold the lustre that it used to. Cartoons depicting the Muhammad will be conspicuous by their absence from newspapers and internet sites everywhere. An Islamic caliphate running from the Suez Canal to Afganistan is what this world needs. It would be therapeutic and cathartic for all the Muslims of the world, would relieve Muslim non-Muslim tension and eliminate terror.

Hi guys, I am interested in the current situation in Iraq and have read this thread. There are one or two problems with the "right wing" position as elucidated by Monty. 1. No WMD were found to justify the invasion of Iraq 2. The war has dragged on a lot longer than anticipated or promoted by the Bush Admin 3. while $250 billion has been spent on the war, social services within the US have been neglected 4. US citizens are gradually having their rights eroded for the sake of security. It is the same process that preceded the formation of the Nazi Germany There are similar problems with the "left hand" idea that the US can simply withdraw. The size of the US military installations in Iraq apparently are immense. They appear to counter the notion that the US is in there for the short term. The only thing that we can be certain about this invasion is that it was a blunder on a $250 billion dollar scale, that Bush will leave office faster than Nixon, go down in history as the worst president ever and spark a major overhaul of the US electoral system. How was it that an administration that sneaked in over a disputed vote count in Florida manage to have unhinged power over the right to violate UN resolutions outlawing the unprovoked attack of another sovereign nation? These are questions that will echo down the chambers of the senate in years to come. One election does not a democracy make. Monty is still in that religious-opiate fever that grips him with the right to violently impose his "democracy and freedom" onto helpless peoples of another country. While right wingers fall like dominoes around him, he continues to 'fess true courage in his stand against -what's is it you're are standing against, or for?