Durgan

How does the above quote/metaphor connect with Canada in any way considering the current crisis? 'Arms economy'? What arms economy? 'Psychosis of war hysteria'? The way I see it the "psychosis of war hysteria" or the "propaganda of fear" isn't coming from people who support the mission. Quite the opposite.. Really? We must be reading different material. Durgan.

It is a pretty sad state of affairs when status of a country is determined by the size of its military. All the money spend to the military is money that could be used for useful purposes. Military spending is a bottomless pit, and those that attempt to fill it are wrong-headed and creates misery for its citizens. No nation ever had an army large enough to guarantee it against attack in time of peace or insure it victory in time of war. - President Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933) May I remind the readers that NATO was the organization that was supposed to take on the Russian Juggernaut for about 40 years. If a few Taliban has NATO at a standstill in little Afghanistan, it is a dammed good thing the Russians didn't attack, or we would all be learning their funny alphabet by now. If the US unilaterally withdrew from the conflict in Afghanistan, the NATO Groups left would be mince-meat in short order. The US air umbrella protecst NATO's ass. I suggest this is a NATO mission on paper only, and countries of the much touted NATO alliance has no stomach for this mission. If you doubt this look up the numbers. The leitmotif of this being a NATO sponsored mission is used to add some mysterious legitimacy to this mission. Our country is now geared to an arms economy, bred in an artifically induced psychosis of war hysteria, and an incessant propaganda of fear. General Douglas MacArthur 1952 I suggest Harper and many other unthinking Canadian's are falling into the actions of the above quote. Lets hope this psychosis due to unrelenting propaganda doesn't encompass Canada. Afghanistan is the wrong war in the wrong place and the wrong motive, whatever that is. Durgan.

Revenge? Well, if you say so. As for talk - well, there is light banter in the back room perhaps. Talk will potentially occur - but in the end talk will return to bullets and bombs. Islamics do not negotiate in good faith. Their victim society mentality and their drive to convert all or kill them has pre-determined our fateunless we stand strong. Remember - they are taiught from birth - There is no sin in taking a non-believer and using this person as one would a cow - then killing that non-believer. The thing is - this is what will bring the west down. Western civilizations cannot understand the fact that we are non-believers and thought of as nothing more than cockroaches. Western societies actually believe there is a chance for peace through negotiation. Kill them there or kill them here. In the end if we do not do it there we will have to do it here. Those who have prescribed to the Liberal social re-engineering of this country will lead the way to our downfall. Borg Ridiculous babble. Non-sensical and stupid. Has the ridiculous bent of the radical Muslims. Better delivered in Al Jazeera than in a Western medium. Amost the rambling of a deranged mind. The Taliban did not attack on 9/11. They harboured Ben Laden and would not turn him over. The US justifiably attacked and destroyed them, and most of the built up country, that which was left standing by the Russian assault. It was an act of revenge and punishment. The British, when they ruled the world, used to call this sort of action a punitive expedition. That said and done: The Taliban finances are fueled by the upper middle class in Europe plus other places, who have an insatiable appetite for illegal drugs . It takes money to fight. Where do you think it comes from? Ninety percent of the abundant opium crop is sold in Western Europe. I suggest we buy the 4200 tons and it will give aid to the local farmers and we can control the supply. Cost about $600 million. Cheap compared to our military cost in material and body bags. It is time to Exit, and offer and give aid, so the country can re-build under a regime of their choice. The Afghan Army is 35,000 strong now. It is time they took over the security of the country. It is now their war and their country. Durgan.

I suggest the West and the US in particular has waved the big stick and has got revenge for 9/11. It is time to start talking, which will have to be started sooner or later. All that will happen unless talks are started is the circle of war will get larger. There are rumbling against Pakistan about hot pursuit, and lack of will in Pakistan in stopping infiltration of fighters into Afghanistan. I suggest a breach with Pakistan is not in the West's interest. The incessant killing and destruction on both sides has to stop. Afganistan has been reduced to rubble for all intents an purposes. This war is now a war of atrtrition, and the numbers are on the side of insurgents, Taliban, Afghans, Pakistan sympathizers, Jihad fighters,or whatever name one wishes to give them. Durgan.

In all Muslim countries, I believe. What we're doing there is trying to stablize the place so that it doesn't fall into the hands of religious wackos again, and so it doesn't become a lawless place which can be the base for international terrorist training camps and bases, as it was before. It's in our own interest to be there. I suggest it was a engineered democratically elected government conveniently sympathetic to the West. Hamas in the Gaza Strip was a democratically elected government also, not particularly sympathetic to the West as food for thought. That our troops are propping a regime that executes its citizens for apostacy is simply not acceptable, amongst other reasons. I am suggesting it is the same church only a different pew. Many of the government's present members ascribe to the draconian religious views of the Talaban. Maybe the West's interests will be served in the short term, but little will change in Afghanistan. Socially engineering a country the size of Texas, 30 million people about he same as Canada, 50% illiterate, and deeply religious is simply not possible, even if it was desirable. Pakistan of 160 million people with many sympathetic to the Taliban cause makes the task of pacification by NATO problematic to say the least. Durgan.

I suggest this is a particularly damaging reason why the Commissioner, Giuliano Zaccardelli, should be removed. The previous commissioner of the RCMP gave a resounding defence of Giuliano Zaccardelli on the CBC, particularly emphasizing that Zaccardelli has about 60,000 members and trusted subordinates to do the right thing, and that he couldn't be supervising all. I suggest this is reasonable in normal circumstances. Clearly after Arar was released, Giuliano Zaccardelli must have been in the loop due to the possible ramifications of the event. This implies that he was complicit in the smear campaign. If he wasn't in the loop he certainly should have been. Therefore his removal by resignation or request is mandatory. It is a case of accountability. Durgan.

Sorry posted twice

The illegal drugs is about a five billion dollar industry. To chase these illegal drugs the governmnet is spending about seven billion dollars per year. The figures are subject ot correction, since there are many available and they do vary. Economics alone suggest this is a losing battle, and is similar to the NATO Mission in Afghanistan. Do we fight on or withdraw? I suggest we withdraw. Simply remove marajuana from the illegal list. Those who want it can partake. I cannot see how it can affect those who desist. The police could concentrate on other more important issues, like auto theft. Smoking in a public place could be subject to the current anti-smoking laws. Clearly our current marajuana laws don't work, so it is time for a change. A stupid person does the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. I am sure the same arguments, pro and con, presented on this thread are applicable to the consumption of alcohol. We as a society accept one, why not the other? I suggest the benefits of legalizing marajuana use far outweigh the downside. Personally, not partaking of alcohol or marajuana, I feel it should be a personal choice. It should be a non-issue. Durgan.

Oh hell yeah. Lets just use our imagination instead of reading and looking at the situation for what it is. Lets not deal with reality...oh no! Lets all just sit here and use our imagination to divine reality. Who needs facts and education when you've got your imagination? Lets just finger-paint us a solution to this instead. If we do we'll be back there in ten years or less killing more of them and us. . You are frothing at the mouth. Your babble is irrational. Stick to the subject matter. I am annoyed at the incessant killing of young men on both sides, and the misery of the bystanders caught in the middle, often with religion as a justification. Durgan.

Good point. He could have been anywhere. He may not have left North America. Before crooks drive you to their "meeting place", they usually put a hood over your head. You may be driven around the block endlessly to create the illusion that you are going far away. Surely you aren't serious. Arar was visited in prison in Syria by Canadian Foreign Affairs officials. Durgan.

The propaganda the last two days has been unrelenting 22 and 23 September 2006. Harper will separate support for the troops from support for the mission. He is pandering to the lowest denominator of the Canadian public. I suspect the CBC got the message also the Globe and Mail. Mansbridge, the bugle caller, automatically falls in line. Manbridge interviewed Kazai from a prepared list of questions prepared by the PMO. It is time this lap dog retired. I muse about who is going to get the CBC Chairman position. Goebbels is dead but Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, Iraqi Minister of Information (currently on administrative leave) is available. He was the Minister in charge of the Iraqi propaganda during the Bush Families second war in Iraq. I hope the appointment isn't a lap dog. Everyone in Canada supports the troops that is a given. Most people do not support the NATO Mission, in fact, most of NATO does not support this mission. The proof is the limited contribution of troops from NATO countries. It is sparce to say the least. Harper is leading Canadians down the garden path to disaster, fortunately he has a minority government and hopefully will fail soon. Durgan

[quote name='Argus' date='Sep 23 2006, In the first, I'm speaking about the need, in a democracy, for compromise. But the world is not a democracy of any kind. It's a free-for-all filled with violent, corrupt, illegitimate leaders and backward, medieval goat-herders, none of whom recognize anything but force. The Sauds know what they're doing. I don't think it would surprise anyone that the US and other western powers have made their displeasure at Saudi funding for religious extremism known. The Saudis continue to fund religious extremism. And that extremism is the basis for most Muslim terrorism and the increasing radicalism in the Muslim world. If Sadaam were a US tool, and he could be relied on to safeguard and continue oil shipments, then there really isn't any reason why the US shouldn't have allowed him to conquer the gulf, esp the Sauds. It's not like this would unleash a reign of terror on the people, for there is no freedom there to begin with, and torture is commonplace in Saudi prisons anyway. Niccolò di Bernado dei Machiavelli at his best. He couldn't have written it better. I suggest during the cold war the essence of the practice mentioned was used particularly in South Amrica. CIA sponsored dictators to achieve stability. I suggest the result is more misery, of which South America is slowly coming out of. The third world is awakening and going through growing pains, not unlike Britain's effort to achieve the level of Democracy they have today. It took 1000 years, and is an ongoing process. Rather than work on Afghanistan, we could be closer to home in South America. Afghanistan is no threat to Canada of which I am aware. The root of terrorism is the financing and arms. Trace the money to the source and you will find the true terorists. The Taliban at best are foot soldiers, not unlike our own troops in the area. Durgan.

[quote name='Higgly' date='Sep 23 2006, 12:41 PM' OK. So I think you are talking about Voodoo. Actually Voodoo is based in ritual and the interpretation of spirits. It descends from the animistic religions of Africa. The Moslem religion is based on principle and thought and descends from the monotheistic religions of the Middle East. No, I was talking about the Hudood bit, but feel it is about a non-sensical as Hoodoo, so chose the Hoodoo bit intentionally. Any law based on religion that has consequences as severe at the Hudood Ordinance should be ridiculed. That was my intent, but you missed it. So this is the clarification. This is the 21st century and it is time to move on and remove some of the misery in trhe world, often casued by religion. Durgan. Our New Prime Minister Durgan

Well all right then. Just what did you mean? And why do you have to put everything in a bigger font than everyone else? Are you having trouble with your eyesight? Shiah Law or Hoodoo Law is the same bullshit, why separate them. Actually they have the same practices in Haiti, but it is harmless except for the participients. Yep to you second question. Durgan

So in a perfect world everybody would have the same attitude towards sex as you do? Certainly a jump on cogntive thinking! One of our Prime Ministers said something like this, A nation has no business looking in the bedrooms of its people. I will let you sort that out with some cognitive logical thinking. How do you and Harper reshape a backwards, half illiterate, Muslim country of 30 million people? We spend about 1000 billion in Canada each year in all taxes, and many don't think Canada has addressed many social problems. I suggest the propaganda is not even beginning to address reality. Most of the babbble is totally unrealistic. I suggest the people of Afghanistn don't want to be made into the image of the USA. Durgan

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. And you aren't even willing to spend 30 seconds to learn. No it is NOT "simply punishments for sex and alcohol in many Muslim countries". You are mixing that up with Shia law . Bla Bla Bla. Anybody can copy and paste. I reduced the Hoodoo Law to its essentials fpr the peasants could understand. Most cannot read more than one sentence due to a short attention span. I repeat: Hudood Ordinance is simply punishments for sex, alcohol and theft in many Muslim countries. Not only Pakistan, the most democratic of all Muslim countires other than Saudia Arabia-both allies of the US. Muslims have more hangups about sex than even Western countires. That is probably why they have so much energy for violence agasint the helpless and weak. All that testosterone floating around in the body probably has to be disapated someplace. Apparently there or no homosexuals in Muslim countries, because it is forbidden by the Koran, similar to blasphemy against Allah. As per most crimes stoning to death is the prefered method of punishment, but hanging is also practiced, probably copied from the British. This is the kind of society that are troops are dying to make secure. Democracy at its best. Killjoy, is there anything else you would like to know? Durgan.

Peter Worthington Article Oh yeh great supporters of justice, Peter Worthington has a nice piece in that rag the Toronto Sun. Durgan. What I don't get -- and have never gotten from the start of this weird miscarriage of justice and accountability -- is why the Syrians would imprison and torture Arar if the Americans (and RCMP) thought he was an al-Qaida or any other sort of terrorist? Since when have the Syrians -- big supporters of Hezbollah and a sanctuary for anti-American fighters from Iraq -- been torturing people suspected of seeking to undermine Americans? Heck, if he were what the RCMP thought he was, you'd think the Syrians would roll out the red carpet for him and honour him with a state dinner or something, not jail and torture him for a year. Something seems out of kilter in this case.

Hudood Ordinance is simply punishments for sex, alcohol and theft in many Mulim countries. Sort of the Law of the Land. NATO is fighting to ensure these laws are respected. Its called Democracy, Muslim Style. After all there are many forms of Democracy as practiced in the world today. This is similar to the CPC Harper crusade about fighting crime. Just a little more effective than what Canada can tolerate. Judging from some comments on various threads I assume many in this country would like to see similar laws incorported in Canada. It tends to keep the silent majority in line. Durgan.

date='Sep 22 2006, 06:25 PM' post='136312'] I think I read somewhere probably one of your posts that History is irrelevant or something to that effect, anyway it is on this thread. Maybe a little background will help you. This historical story might influence your thinking, but it takes a bit of time to read. Not your usual fare I am sure. FIELD-MARSHAL LORD ROBERTS V.C. Start at Chapter CHAPTER XLIX if you attention span is short. Durgan

Afghan President Hamid Karzai is on his propaganda mission to Canada. He smother Canadian's with thanks. A dog doesn't bite the hand that feeds him. Meanwhile in the country Canada is helping to rebuild, you know 's women rights, etc; the Karzai Government has a new ministry complete with a cabinet minister, sort of like Stockwell Day. Guess what the new ministry is called? I will give you the answer. The Department of Vice and Virtue. Guess what this department, which was abolished when the Taliban were bombed our of Kabul, does. But I will leave the answer to the pundits on this this to fill in the details. The US is on a mission to impose world order, and Canada has decided to grab Uncle Sam's coattails under the Harper CPC's. The mission is on the line according to Harper's UN speach yesterday. They must re-build Afghanistan. Might I remind you mindless supporters of this mission, that Canada was involved in the Congo and Gaza about 40 or 50 years ago. I spend 18 months of my life on these UN missions in the Army. I feel cheated, because those two places are still disaster areas. Afghanistan will be exactly the same. Take some time off reading you comic books, and check in as to what is going on in Haiti these days. Another Canadian mission! but they are blacks so probably don't count in the new world order. Suddenly, Harper according the the rhetoric is going to re-build a country that had nothing to begin with. This country is about equal to Canada in population, approximately 30 million. Dream on boys. I will finish with a quote. "No one has deputized America to play Wyatt Earp to the world". Patrick J Buchanan in a letter to President Munroe in 1823. Yes! I copied and pasted that one like I did the article previously to enlighten the ignorant, who unfortunately wish to remain so. Durgan.

Mr. Arar's desire to retain his Syrian citizenship contributes greatly to the ROOT of the problem, HIS problem in many respects. The US deportation of Arar to Syria was for the torture aspect in my opinion, and a little bit of throwing their weight around. BUT: Arar was travelling with a Canadian Passport. I am going to assume he did not have two pasports, but if he did them the depotation to Syria was justified. There has been no mention about two passports in the media. Durgan.

There are several people on this thread, who continually attack the messenger. It contributes little or nothing to a debate. How about reacting to the statements. Silly one line comments mostly. Durgan.

From the link: "Political Affairs.com - Marxist thoughts Online". I'm convinced. That's a source that would never tell a 'story'. Suppose your house was on fire and you were down the street around the corner and somebody ran up and said, "Your house if burning". I assume by your reply to the post that you would dismiss the fire report if you didn't like the person reporting. Personally I never even looked at the Marxist bit at the head of the post. I read the article looking for defects from my knowledge about the country, taken from many sources. I suggest the report is a close as anyone can get to the facts about the mess in Afghanistan. Shooting the messenger doesn't solve problems or enlighten. Marxism is dead for all intents and purposes throughout the world. The new ism is "Terrorism", since it appears the West must always have an ism in their sights. Durgan. .

The NDP has an easy to send petition at Pertition to Parliament Durgan.