CamTheCat

Faith & Politics politicians have values too As a politician, my political values in keeping with my party are the first priority. As a man with a concept of a Higher Power, I live by the values of my spiritual faith. Now, how does one represent their riding, their party, and their own personal values if they aren't all exactly the same? I'll always stand by my beliefs and opinions, and I'll always bring my ridings' beliefs and opinions to the table. What I don't want to do is appear as though I have a hidden agenda. I am open about my beliefs, and only wish that more politicians were as clear and unwavering with their values. I found this bit on the wikipedia site... Ulysses S. Grant's statement might be interpreted as arguing not only against institutional entanglements, but separation of religion from public life. "Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separate." Thomas Jefferson reflected this same religious basis for belief in the separation of church and state: "Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either . . . ." Many Christians interpret Biblical passages such as Christ's admonition to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God what is God's" as a warning that the State has a strong tendency toward corruption, and therefore religious involvement in government is more likely to corrupt the religion than to benefit the state. The above writings bring to my mind the thought that the concept of 'separation of church & state' has been misinterpreted over the years. I think it's a good thing for a politician to express their religion and carry out their duties as both a representative of their voters and as a person of faith (whatever that faith may be). I also agree that the government is just fine without an official religion. That's the opposite of separation of church & state, and that's not what I want to see in Canada. Are there any other politicians here who have some thoughts on this subject?

Here's a great article/essay by Preston Manning. Enjoy. Green Conservatives and Blue Conservationists by Preston Manning* (Calgary) The question on the poster on the university billboard was clear and provocative: Can Genuine Conservation and Economic Conservatism Be Reconciled? Inside the lecture hall where the question was to be debated a curiously diverse audience had assembled. Members and supporters of the Green Party buoyed by their surprising showing in the recent federal election; members of the campus Conservative Club and their friends; students in political science and economics but also a few from the physical sciences; and a smattering of others – a Toronto business man who came west to be a rancher, employees and volunteers from several environmental advocacy groups, several oil company risk managers and land men, a professor of environmental engineering, and others who kept their interests and political colours to themselves. The chairman, a history student and environmental activist who had organized the meeting, called it to order. The panellists – a conservative politician, a green politician, a free market environmentalist, and an environmental scientist – went through their paces. Seven minutes each to state their views, half an hour of debate among themselves, and then an hour responding to questions and comments from the audience. A democratic and educational exercise, focused on an important issue, which ought to be replicated on every campus across the country. Relevant observations and conclusions? Here are five which registered with me: 1. Green Tories: There are such creatures as “green conservatives” – people who believe in free markets and fiscal responsibility and are genuinely commitment to the conservation of natural capital – land, water, forests, and wildlife. These people recognize that “conservation” and “conservative” derive from the same root. They are as yet a minority within most conservative parties, but they are destined to increase in numbers and influence in the years ahead. 2. Blue Environmentalists: There are also such creatures as “blue environmentalists” – people who are deeply committed to conserving our natural environment but who have also come to believe that this goal is more likely to be achieved through the reshaping of consumer demands and the harnessing of market forces to meet those demands, than by political protests and heavy-handed government interventions in the economy. These people are a minority within the Green movement, and it is not yet clear whether left-wing Greens will ultimately accept or reject them. 3. Full Cost Accounting and Pricing: If there is one single concept which may bring genuine conservationists and economic conservatives on to common ground, this may be it. If a new hydro dam is required in response to consumer demand for energy, the “cost” must include not only the cost of developing and delivering the new supply, but also the cost of mitigating its negative environmental impacts. This aggregate cost must be reflected in the price of the energy produced, and if the cost is too high, consumers will and should seek other alternatives. But full cost accounting and pricing must cut both ways. If a new environmental protection measure (like Kyoto) is proposed in response to public demand, this too must be fully costed out (never done in the case of Kyoto), and the public must understand that this cost too will ultimately be incorporated in the prices of the goods and services affected. Once again, if the cost proves to be too high, the public will and should seek other alternatives. 4. Hard Choices: If political activists who have cut their teeth in the Green movement want to make the transition from protest and advocacy to governmental responsibility, they must be prepared to make some hard choices. The hard choices for a governing party are not the choices between “something good” (like environmental conservation) and “something bad” (like environmental destruction). The hard choices are between two good things (like whether to put more money into education or health care) or between the lesser of two evils (like whether to restrict civil liberties to get more security from terrorism, or to have less security). For example, it would be in the overall interests of the environment in Canada if Ontario Hydro were to replace some of its nuclear and coal fired power generation with renewable hydro power from Manitoba. But the accelerated development of Manitoba hydro sources will also have some deleterious environmental effects in Manitoba. Will Manitoba environmentalists choose to protest that accelerated development because of these effects, or support it for the sake of the greater environmental good? 5. Beyond Left and Right: One can be concerned and active in conserving the environment without being a socialist, and one can be committed to responsible private enterprise and limited government and still be a committed conservationist. Both green conservatives and blue environmentalists are moving beyond the old “left-right” paradigm of traditional politics and are uncomfortable with the old categories and labels (including “green” and “blue”). If they can learn to work together in practical ways they might very well invent a new political paradigm – politics of a different colour for the 21st century. This describes the Green Partys' fiscally conservative stance very well. It blew me away when I realized that this party has a real plan to make it work. L8R

Mcqueen625, I'm wondering: As a Christian, do you view all sins equaly? I mean, this isn't a loaded question - I'm just trying to understand your POV. While you disagree with gay marriage, do you love a gay person as your neighbor and fellow man? Again, I hope you respond to this question, as I'm just trying to understand your stance correctly. There are some who oppose gay rights period, and would have pro-choice supporters and homosexuals thrown out of the country or worse if they could. I couldn't tell from your post where you stand on this. Thanks. How do the following principles play a role in your thoughts, as a Catholic? TOLERANCE COMPASSION OPEN MINDEDNESS PATIENCE LOVE

Well, as the old saying goes, "with great power comes great responsibility". I like this one too... "absolute power corrupts absolutely". There are successful socialist styled governments, as well as unsuccessfull ones, just like there have been successfull and unsuccessfull capitalist governments. Corruptuion played a role in many failed governments throughout the course of history. As time passes, it seems that the idea of an ever expanding capitalist model is running out of room to expand. The Green party has been very successfull in other countries, and believe it or not, the Greens here in Canada seem to be less socialist than you might think, (not that socialism is bad). I'd love to get some comments regarding what about the Green Party in Canada is socialist, and what is conservative, as this party seems to be a growing force and I need help understanding what their platform is all about. "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation." - A. Einstein "What many now call 'growth' will soon be seen as accelerated decay." - Dan Fiscus "After the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten." - Cree Indian Prophecy

While I have no problem with standing on a farn in the midst of crops, I do have a problem standing on a farm in the midst of flaring gas wells, H2S leaking machinery, and proven health damaging pollution caused by the oil industry. Everyone in Canada is happy with oil $$$, but farmenrs here in AB are getting pushed around by the EUB, a puppet oil indusrty organization. http://www.landadvocate.org/ Land Advocate I can't believe that some people still think that there's no problem with the ways in which we pollute our environment. To them I suggest trying to breathe through an exhaust pipe.

As I understand it, the subject of abortion was dealt with over the last few years by the courts, and not directly by the gov't. It became a constitutional issue, and the courts decided with that in mind. Now the parties have had the decision made for them. Even though the conservatives are vieing for pro-life and want to have a free vote, I think there are other more pressing concerns on their platform, few of which I'm in favor of. I think the conservatives are appealing to voters with false promises and misleading platform policies, but that;s just my opinion. The more I learn about the real issues in Canada, the more I see that the environment is being destroyed, for us and our children, and we won't get it back. Now that's a serious issue for Canada. Don't dissmiss me as a tree-hugging hippie - I live in rural Alberta in the midst of a great many noe-cons who are seeing their ranches and farms destroyed by the oil industry. Whew, that's the end of this rant. L8R

The Greens seem to me to be socialist in principle, and in their platform on many points. The conservitives had a platform last year regarding the economy that included creating green jobs to increase employment. This was part of the Green platform on economy... ...shift taxes from income to resource use- increases employment and reduces environmental impact. More tax breaks on the lowest-income Canadians, no tax break for corporate capital gains. Taxes on land use. Tax breaks to environmental innovators and other social considerations i.e.. onsite childcare... ...Move to conservation and alternative technology promises many new jobs- more than enough to compensate for the phasing out of old polluting industries. Focus on workplace improvements and quality of life at work, match skills and demand better. Less tax=more jobs. The greens aren't anti-corporations (well, some members are), but instead they just want to see proper use of Canadas resources by big businesses that will be taxed if they don't clean up their act. Cameron

The NDP has felt pressure from the Green party to appear more focussed on the environment, but when given the chance, by enlarge, they havnot followed through. Also, the NDP hasn't commited to meeting the Kyoto protocol targets, and the Greens have. Some people acuse the Greens of being to much in the 'center', based on their corporate friendly position. The Greens want to see a Canada with a healthy economy, and are not as much of an enemy of comerce as some believe. I feel for the conservatives who do care about the environment. Why aren't they voting green? This isn't a vote for the Liberals or the NDP, but a statement that one wants to see change regarding environmental care - or lack thereof. As the Green party grows I hope to see conservatives taking a look at the Greens platform. While it does differ greatly in many key areas, it also has been called 'appealing to conservatives' by some. I guess this is because of the use of the word conservatives, as in conservation. Man, I hate it when ppl use the same word for different meanings. Anyways, thanks for the thoughts. L8R

Thanks willy. C.S.Lewis was a great writer.

I'm still hoping someone out there can offer some valuable feedback on this subject.

I will vote Green Party. Why did you not include them in your poll? They are becoming a strong force in Canadian politics.

I moved to Alberta from BC five years ago, (My parents are born & raised Albertans) and there is a BIG difference in the opinions of voters out here. I grew up with green values, but in Alberta those beliefs are not always seen as priorities. Interestingly the green party is gaining strength here, and I think even many conservative voters are considering voting Green Party. Some voters are afraid that they'll be throwing away their votes if they vote GP. But by supporting this party, it sends a clear message to the current gov't that we want more green policies in our province. Some voters are worried that a vote for the Greens would detract from the Liberals, allowing the conservatives to sneak up, or vice versa. But this just simply doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. I don't want either of those parties in power. Some voters are Christians that think of the issues of abortion and gay rights as THE issues, as they apply to their religion. This is a sticky subject out here, and I've met some very very right wing christians who feel very strongly that a vote for any party other than the cons would be a ticket to hell. At the same time I've met some Christians who vote green. I cannot 'judge' them based on their lifestyle and faith. Man, it sure is a deep issue. I wonder how the green party could win the votes of conservatives? It sure would be interesting to see someone try. The first thing they have going for themselves is that they're fiscally conservative. Cameron

I'd love to see that cash come back to me and my wife. My 17 month old son won't know that he received the cash, but that's not the point. We as a family will receive extra because we have a child. I see how bussinesses might think they're getting stiffed, but this isn't a business tax rebate, it's a personal one. It's obviously not based on who contributes what to the system. I just want the cash - I know that if the Liberals invest it I'll never see it. It does feel dirty though, like the liberals are saying, "Say, we've destroyed a lot of Alberta in the name of oil and gas, so here's a few bucks to keep you from whining." Cameron

I am a christian and vote green party. I found this platform info at: party platform comparison charthttp://lp.greenparty.ca/tiki-index.php?page=party+platform+comparison+chart&bl ... Abortion - pro-choice. Main goal- reduce cases of unwanted pregnancies and focus more on contraceptive promotion. Would provide financial support. Gay Marriage - supports same-sex marriage The green party is interested in prevention of unwanted pregnancies. I wonder if they are promoting abstinence and a method of birth control, and have contacted the party to get this info and more. At this point I'm comfortable with supporting this party, while maintaining my own personal opinion on this issue (pro-life). I think that through involvement with the party, and as a christian getting involved with the Green Party, I may be able to make an impact regarding peoples stance here - maybe I can help those with the opinion of pro-choice see it from the other side (that of pro-life christians). Of course I am treading this water carefully and would aprecciate any loving and kind feedback on my direction here. I just can't vote conservative - for many, many reasons. Regarding gay marriage, I'm still learning about the political issues. I know where the bible stands on homosexuality - it's a sin. The thing is, we're all equal in gods eyes, and I don't believe that many of us can say that we live our lives without sin. There is no such thing as a lesser or greater sin as far as I'm concerned, so I look at it like this: It's not for me to judge people who have a different sexual orientation than mine. I think I can support the green party and still maintain my personal beleifs regarding this particular subject. Again I'm comfortable with voting for the green party while they support gay marriage, while I personally believe that marriage is a religious event - not a gov't one. The thing is that the gov't today has meddled in this religious union, and it has become a sort of 'flagship' for gay rights. The bible has taught me tolerance, love and patience, and I am a supporter of gay rights, as well as sexual equality and other topics that deal with loving acceptance of our fellow humans. I hope there will be more posts on this subject, as I'm very interested in learning more about the way a Christian gets involved in politics today. Cameron