hot enough
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Posts posted by hot enough
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39 minutes ago, Argus said:
However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength—and that required exposure to much less heat.Apr 7, 2010 http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/
That doesn't explain how WTC7 fell at free fall speed for 8 floors, 105 feet, for 2.5 seconds. Free fall speed is impossible without a controlled demolition. A controlled demolition on one tower means a controlled demolition on all three towers.
Vaporized steel, requiring 5,000+F means that the hujackers didn't cause the collapse of the three towers. Who could have? Who had access to superthermite/nanothermite?
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19 minutes ago, betsy said:
So, what's his conclusion? What does that mean?
To my knowledge, this gentleman, an Iranian immigrant has drawn no conclusions. But the conclusions have been drawn by many other scientists working off his findings and their own work. Molten steel means that the alleged hijackers were not responsible for the collapse of WTCs 1, 2 and 7. Their "explosive/fuel" was roughly 1,400 degrees F short of being able to melt steel, Some 3,600 degrees F short of being able to vaporize steel.
In a word, they have been falsely accused.
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Watch Peter Ketchum, a former NIST employee, who illustrates in his short 13 and a half minute talk how all the science had been, has been so easily hidden for 15 years and how NIST engaged in a patently deceptive study.
Truth Is Where Our Healing Lies | Part 5: Peter Michael Ketcham Makes First Public Appearance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb2NOBbD88c&index=5&list=PLUshF3H0xxH0-LxNZYGPIJqIp8-roEJY4
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24 minutes ago, ?Impact said:
Skyscrapers like the world trade center are very different than stone structures. They are relatively light for the volume they occupy, but overall because of their massive size the weight was about 500,000 tons in each tower. About 20% of that weight was steel. Unlike a shorter structure where gravity load might be the prime consideration, a tall structure like the world trade center deals with massive wind loads and that becomes the dominating factor in the engineering design. Note that the planes did not crash into the top floor, but between 15-25 floors down from the top depending on which tower was hit. That means that there was anywhere from 60,000 to 100,000 tons of weight above where the fire weakened and buckled the structure.
The molten metals tell the whole story. They were impossible according to the official theory. Nanothermite, this new superthermite, which had no legitimate, legal reason for being there, can account for the collapse of all three towers, one of which, WTC7 fell at free fall speed. That too, makes the official story patently false, as it is impossible for a building to be there one moment and the next go into free fall for 2.5 seconds, 105 feet, eight floors.
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5 hours ago, ?Impact said:
Molten aluminum also reacts with iron oxide (rust) to produce ... thermite. Of course basic chemistry is beyond the grasp of the WTC conspiracy theorists.
That's not basic chemistry at all. Regardless, the thermite that was found was superthermite/nanothermite, a recently discovered, at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, about mid 1990s, patented 1996/97, non-commercially available US military explosive. This is not your ordinary thermite, which is ground down. This is built from the atomic level up. That's not something the alleged hijackers could have done.
QuoteIn order to understand what nanothermite is, we first must understand what ordinary commercial thermite is. Thermite is a mixture of a metal and the oxide of another metal, usually aluminum (Al) and iron oxide (Fe2O3), in a granular or powder form. When ignited, the energetic Al-Fe thermite reaction produces molten iron and aluminum oxide, with the molten iron reaching temperatures well in excess of 4000° F. These temperatures are certainly high enough to allow cuts through structural steel, which generally has a melting point of around 2750° F.
There is also a variant of thermite known as thermate, which is a combination of thermite and sulfur, and is more efficient at cutting through steel. This form of thermite is believed to have been used in the demolition of World Trade Center Building 7. Although conventional thermite has the capability to cut through structural steel, it is technically an incendiary and not an explosive.
Nanothermite (also known as superthermite), simply put, is an ultra-fine-grained (UFG) variant of thermite that can be formulated to be explosive by adding gas-releasing substances. A general rule in chemistry is that the smaller the particles of the reactants, the faster the reaction. Nanothermite, as the name suggests, is thermite in which the particles are so small that they are measured in nanometers (one billionth of a meter). The authors of the peer-reviewed Active Thermitic Materials paper, which documents the discovery of these materials in the WTC dust, explain:
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We all know who the false narrative says is involved but these initial false accusations from 911 are just a repeat of last century's "commies, commies, commies".
Molten steel means the alleged hijackers didn't cause the collapse of WTCs 1, 2 and 7.
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Such information only supports the fact that the alleged hijackers have been falsely accused, Betsy. You do understand the significance of the molten steel, molybdenum, ..., don't you?
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An engineer investigating the remains of the World Trade Center sees melted girders and other evidence that the towers experienced extreme temperatures on 9/11. Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl is a professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of California, Berkeley.
He later recalls, “I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center.” [PBS, 5/10/2007]
He notes that steel has bent at several connection points that had joined the floors of the WTC to the vertical columns. He describes the connections as being smoothly warped, saying, “If you remember the Salvador Dali paintings with the clocks that are kind of melted—it’s kind of like that.” He adds, “That could only happen if you get steel yellow hot or white hot—perhaps around 2,000 degrees.” [CHRONICLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION, 12/7/2001] Astaneh-Asl says that steel flanges have been reduced “from an inch thick to paper thin.” [BERKELEYAN, 10/3/2001] He finds a foot-long twisted shard of steel that is “like a piece of bread, but it was high-strength steel.” He comments, “I haven’t seen anything like this [before].” [BERKELEY DAILY PLANET, 10/20/2001] He finds “severely scorched [steel] members from 40 or so floors below the points of impact [by the planes].” He believes this is the result of the planes having destroyed the elevator walls, thereby allowing burning jet fuel to pour down into the building, igniting fires hundreds of feet below the impact floors. [CBS NEWS, 3/12/2002] Astaneh-Asl sees a charred I-beam from WTC Building 7, which collapsed late in the afternoon of 9/11. “The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.” [NEW YORK TIMES, 10/2/2001]
Other individuals will report seeing molten metal in the remains of the World Trade Center in the weeks and months after 9/11 (see September 12, 2001-February 2002), and data collected by NASA reveals dozens of “hot spots” (some over 1,300 degrees Fahrenheit) at Ground Zero (see September 16-23, 2001). But Thomas Eagar—an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology—later comments that the “temperature of the fire at the WTC [on 9/11] was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.” [EAGAR AND MUSSO, 12/2001] Yet Astaneh-Asl will later put forward the “tentative” conclusion, “The collapse of the [Twin Towers] was most likely due to the intense fire initiated by the jet fuel of the planes and continued due to burning of the building contents.” [ASTANEH-ASL, 11/30/2003
] Astaneh-Asl is a member of the team assembled by the American Society of Civil Engineers to investigate the World Trade Center site after 9/11 (see September 12, 2001), though he will resign from this because he disagrees with its decision to keep findings secret until the initial inquiry has been completed. [NEW YORK TIMES, 10/2/2001; ASSOCIATED PRESS, 9/6/2002]
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4 hours ago, ?Impact said:
There was plenty of aluminum in the world trade center, and aluminum melts at 660.3 °C. There was steam from the sprinkler system, molten aluminum has been known to react with the steam and create hydrogen gas which can explode; there have been many such industrial accidents. Molten aluminum also reacts with iron oxide (rust) to produce ... thermite. Of course basic chemistry is beyond the grasp of the WTC conspiracy theorists.
From a supporter of the official US government conspiracy theory.
"Some reports suggest that the aluminum from the aircraft ignited, creating very high temperatures. While it is possible to ignite aluminum under special conditions, such conditions are not commonly attained in a hydrocarbon-based diffuse flame. In addition, the flame would be white hot, like a giant sparkler. There was no evidence of such aluminum ignition, which would have been visible even through the dense soot."
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.htmlAnd remember, NIST denied, denied denied that there were explosions, even when there were myriad explosions reported by many firemen, reporters, first responders, ordinary folk, ... . This is all so easily found in the news reports of the day. Day two and on, dead silence from the media. The narrative had been set. The NYT applied to the courts and got a FOIA request for the many firemen that had been debriefed after 911. There are many reports from them describing massive explosions on the ground floor and sun floors of WTC1.
One really doesn't have to go past the copious evidence of molten metals that could not have been at WTC, according to the official story. What could have caused this molten steel, molybdenum, iron, vaporized steel? Not jet fuel and office furnishings.
9/11: FEMA investigator Abolhassan Astaneh says, "melting of girders" in WTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syXpA6B85Ek
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What blacksmiths do is of no consequence to the issue at hand. According to the official US government account, the only possibility was of fuels that can attain a maximum of 1,800F. Supporters of the official story actually describe much lower maximum fire temperatures. [1,382 - 1,472F]
"However, it is highly unlikely that the steel at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750–800°C range."
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html
These molten metals of the variety found at WTC should not have been there, ie. there was no legitimate/legal reason for them to be there. That in and of itself, makes the official story false.
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7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:
Wouldn't it be better to postpone it until May, if indeed the whole thing is going to be blow wide open by the U of A?
Forum guidelines suggest: "If you are not bringing anything new to the argument, then do not say anything at all."
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6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:
What turmoil? Things are relatively quiet at the moment.
I think we should address the science and the actual issues raised. The implications are daunting, I know.
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There is so much turmoil in the world. Why? We hear oh so frequently from oh so many sources that this turmoil has come about because of terrorism, specifically one "grouped" terrorist act. We all know what that is and it is truly a lie of gigantic proportions, not unlike all of the other lies of gigantic proportions.
Premise: It is completely impossible that the alleged 911 hijackers caused the collapse of WTC towers 1, 2 and 7.
Proof one: The existence of molten metals; steel, molybdenum, iron at WTC the existence of vaporized steel at WTC, the existence of nanothermite at WTC all attest to the fact that the alleged hijackers did not cause the collapse of WTC towers 1, 2 and 7.
The only fuel that the hijackers are said to have brought to the WTC, according to the official government story, is jet fuel. Add office furnishings and you have fuels that can reach a maximum of about 1,800F. Steel melts at about 2,800F. Molybdenum melts at about 4,700F. Vaporized steel needs higher temperatures.
Point TT-6: The Claim that There Was No Molten Steel or Iron in the WTC
Point TT-6: Buildingshttp://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-6/
Pictures of the vaporized steel
https://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf
There are, of course, many other proofs that show that the alleged 911 hijackers did not cause, could not have caused the collapse of WTC towers 1, 2 and 7.
There is currently a two year study of WTC7 being conducted at University of Alaska, Fairbanks. It is scheduled for total completion in May 2017. The study is essentially finished and in preliminary reports, the lead professor/engineer said, when asked by a lawyer, and I paraphrase,
Lawyer: On a scale of one to a hundred what are the chances the official NIST story of the collapse of WTC7 is true and accurate?
Professor: Zero.
Lawyer: If a graduate student of yours submitted such a report would you flunk him?
Professor: Yes.
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No, doing things legally, would have meant that this whole world wide affair of the last roughly 15 years never would have happened.
The narrower point is, the right now point is that Trump wanted a Muslim ban.
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Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘legally’
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“I'll tell you the whole history of it,” Giuliani responded eagerly. “So when [Trump] first announced it, he said, 'Muslim ban.' He called me up. He said, 'Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.' "
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Evil is not subjective. That is an alternate fact. Unless you believe that Hitler wasn't evil and you want to make a case for that.
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They are all the same in that they are deeply evil.
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Muhammad Ali's son detained at airport, asked if he's Muslim, lawyer says
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During his detention, Ali Jr. was asked repeatedly about his lineage and his name, “as if that was a pre-programmed question that was part of a profile,” Mancini said.
Ali Jr. and his mother have been frequent global travelers. The family connects their treatment to President Trump’s efforts to restrict immigration after calling during his campaign for a ban on Muslims entering the U.S.
“This has never happened to them before,” Mancini said. “They’re asked specifically about their Arabic names. Where they got their names from and whether they’re Muslims. It doesn’t take much to connect those dots to what Trump is doing.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muhammad-ali-son-detained-airport-asked-are-you-muslim-lawyer/
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Why did you focus on Obama?
That only illustrates how sick the whole system is. And all this based on lies, lies and more lies.
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It wasn't all that long ago that crimes like rape, child molestation weren't considered by western nations as such a big deal. Bill Cosby. Catholic Church.
The judge who asked a rape victim why she didn't just keep her knees together.
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Trump's Muslim ban defended by a UAE government official, from an "absolute monarchy, from another torture country supported by the US.
QuoteFlogging and stoning are legal punishments in the UAE. The requirement is derived from Sharia law, and has been federal law since 2005.[212] Some domestic workers in the UAE are victims of Sharia judicial punishments such as flogging and stoning.[145] The annual Freedom House report on Freedom in the World has listed the United Arab Emirates as "Not Free" every year since 1999, the first year for which records are available on their website.[90]
UAE has escaped the Arab Spring; however, more than 100 Emirati activists were jailed and tortured because they sought reforms.[69][213][214] Since 2011, the UAE government has increasingly carried out forced disappearances.[215][216][217][218][219][220] Many foreign nationals and Emirati citizens have been arrested and abducted by the state. The UAE government denies these people are being held (to conceal their whereabouts), placing these people outside the protection of the law.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates#Human_rights
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On 2/23/2017 at 9:33 AM, betsy said:
How come not a single main stream media have mentioned that fact? Dishonest, lying media!
More facts, or alternate truths, brought to you by Donald Trump and his administration.
The Washington Post - Democracy Dies in Darkness
QuoteMap: The countries that ban arrivals based only on religion
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But just how unusual is this idea? Well, consider this: If the United States were to go through with this policy, it would probably be the only country in the world to openly ban arrivals based solely on religious beliefs.
Although many countries around the world have severe restrictions on religion, few, if any, have anything comparable to the scope of Trump's plan. North Korea views Christian missionaries with extreme suspicion (sometimes arresting those it accuses of proselytizing), for example, but it doesn't ban all Christians from entry. Many Arab countries and some others such as Iran may refuse entry to those with Israeli passports, but the restriction is based on nationality rather than a blanket ban on people of the Jewish faith.
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6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:
Where was all the bleeding heart whining from Canada when the previous POTUS (Obama) was deporting millions of illegals and refugees ?
Thousands were crossing the land border then too.
I'm still trying to figure out and learn the intricacies of the forum regulations. There, it states, " If you are stating a fact, be prepared to back it up with some official sources (website links etc)."
I would be interested in seeing a source substantiating this fact.
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7 hours ago, betsy said:
To you, Trump's reasons are simply political. That's just your opinion. As for the radical Islam theme, I cite the FACT that radical Islam remains to be a problem practically everyday, all over the world.
Could you provide a source, a factual source for this fact?
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Why all the worldwide turmoil? (9/11 thread)
in Federal Politics in the United States
Posted
There's no logic in that at all. It goes against the laws of physics. There was no jolt, the collapse was uniform in an accelerating manner for the entire distance the fall could be measured.
Everything that makes contact with another body, whether that body is stationary or in motion, experiences a jolt, a slowing down. This is the conservation of momentum.
Are you familiar with the study that NIST/the official story relies on as their bible?