chris-b-crunch

Fingers crossed

That's assuming that information is actually accurate. Again, this all just strengthens my position that the F-35 should be backed out of and is not what we need. Too much misinformation and too many people who stand to lose big to trust.

That's not much but beyond that I fail to see how just sitting back and doing nothing helps either. I know how hard these things are

Well, we can certainly try to make it an election issue

America has never cancelled a $400 billion project and that massive cost is what the slap will be. I'm not just talking Canada. We wont make that big splash. I'm talking the rest of the countries who will be running come summer at the latest lol. The F-35 as far as I'm concerned will be nixed. And when it is, oh boy will that be fun to watch. The U.S. needs to learn. Lockheed used to build such good aircraft. They got greedy with the F-35 and now them and the U.S. are gonna pay for it.

We should veto that Keystone pipeline and ship it elsewhere.

I do love how the Pentagon is being ball squeezed by Lockheed-Martin and it's supporters

http://www.telegraph...until-2019.html No opinions on this?

I was so happy to read that article. I still have hopes the F-35 will fail. America needs that slap in the mouth and we don't need that headache.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35-purchase-cost-could-rise-by-1b-to-replace-lost-aircraft-1.2868894 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/new-fighter-jet-options-mean-ottawa-could-avoid-buying-f-35s/article22036016/

Foreign investment isn't a bad thing, nor is ownership. But the way we've been doing it the past while is just plain wrong. Plus, it isn't like we can't change things. Personally, I'd love to see Canada try and join with BRICS. Sadly we'd end up being cannon fodder to the U.S. if we did and I doubt we'd be welcomed in. So what's your idea to actually improve this economy? And if it's the "nobody is suffering really"mindset please spare me lol I'm genuinely curious

Anyways, the F-35 is just another example of the idiocy this Country demos. I'm off to find some other subjects because beyond this one, there are so many things that need changing

Canada has a shitload of potential that never gets seen. We could be a world leader in Green Energy, proper. We could be a beacon of how to properly control inequality and keep a healthy middle class and lower class that spends and helps create the demand we need, properly tax corporations and use the extras to fund infrastructure and help create jobs. I want Canada to flourish, but from what I'm seeing, that ain't happening any time soon. And me leaving isn't set in stone. I would love to get into Parliament at some level and actually try to change things. Again, need an education and this supposedly heavily subsidized education system is going to be tough to actually fully afford to get through.

Heavily subsidized? The high cost of tuition tells me otherwise lol. I've had several generations of family pay tax here. And this Government and it's people who support contracts like the F-35 keep screwing me over so no guilt here. I'll happily take that education and dip if things don't change. My choice and I've earned it.

I'd heard the opposite in December. Nothing has been set in stone yet. That's not to say the Cons won't go ahead full steam with it anyways but until it's 100% certain, I'll keep my mind open. If we end up with it, well, I have plans to leave this Country anyways at some point, hence why I'm back in school. Need a better education to do so. Canada is becoming more and more like United States 2.0 and that's sickening and scary. And I'm not an immigrant. I have roots that pre-date confederation here. This Country get's more and more pathetic by the year and looking at the election, Harper or Trudeau as Mulcair is likely a wasted vote. So we lose regardless, just like with the Provincial election. No hope. Would love to be wrong, but Canada just keeps getting worse. And this isn't anger at your debate, lol, in all likelihood, we are on the hook for this. you made some excellent points.

You forgot the current F up on helicopter procurement as well lol And those non member nations are all skeptical as well. Like I say, I'll happy take cancellation fees now to avoid a very, very expensive bigger loss down the road when this thing's maneuverability proves inferior and it says it's final good bye. Assuming more issues don't nix it first. I'll happily eat some penalties to see the F-35 actually earn it's orders by proving it is superior to the Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter, Super Hornet and SU-35 even, in open competition. Buying the F-35 could be an error that will forever dwarf the helicopter procurement screw up and set us back financially for decades. Once proven, buy it. Until then, I've seen nothing aside from Lockheed-Martin's unconvincing sales pitch and fear of open competition to make me think this purchase is worthwhile

Hardly a ringing endorsement

From what I understand, that's largely because Countries have invested in it and instead of taking losses, they will receive the first few aircraft. That is again, assuming the F-35 can make a case for itself and enter combat testing sometime before the mid-point of this year. There is all kinds of skepticism around the F-35 and beyond a few small orders to start, sustainability is still a big question mark. Countries can still back out of the larger orders and will gladly eat a total loss if it suffers any more setbacks. The current order info doesn't make the F-35 anything close to a solid bet. It just makes it a loss that Countries aren't willing to accept financially yet.

Well, the first half of this year will be an interesting one. Those Countries could just as quickly run for the hills if any more setbacks occur.

I mean, even Saab made a great offer for production in Canada that would still stand. We need to properly assess three or four replacements.Including the F-35, not in addition to

Gotta agree with that last statement lol. I'll settle for a competition. There was talk of that, but the F-35 should never have been moved before more was proven

And I'm sorry, there are still better options out there. And for production, Saab offered to allow full manufacturing rights to Canada along with partial coverage of introductory costs. And even if we backed away from the F-35, we still maintain build licensing. So it's not a total loss. Other Countries may eventually complain and nix it, but that's assuming any are really left by the time they work out all of the issues.

And again, the F-35 will be supported if it ever really get's off the ground. The F-22 is a far more capable plane that at least made production before being nixed. The F-35 has already started to suffer for it's failures to this point and it's surpassed the F-22's cost of production. Out east, many are not happy with the U.S. and with the PAK-FA from Russia and even Japan and China in the mix, many are backing away. Fringe Countries as well. Even Saudi Arabia just bought Eurofighters to replace their fleets. The Brazillian's eliminated the F-35 from contention, Australia backed away, most of Europe has no interest and again, missing Farnborough has really hurt the F-35. And with talk that it will miss again this year, this could be it. And if it does make it to Farnborough, you'll learn in a hurry if it's worth buying or not.

Good points by the way. Nice to find someone who can debate with some good facts

Even if they don't go Super Hornet, until the F-35 is proven, no touchy