David Suzuki getting wiser?

[quinton]

JerrySeinfeld, diversity of ocean life declined by 50% in the Altlantic and 25% in the Pacific over the last 50 years according to a study released last year.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...57/?hub=SciTech

[quinton]

Geoffrey, again you say Netherlands is doing just fine.

My definition of doing fine is different than yours.

I'll make up my own mind on that thank you very much.

When I see the majority of rivers in the Netherlands turned into concrete-walled canals it reminds me of the Greater Toronto Area.

To me that is not "just fine".

Futhermore, Canada cannot support as high of a human density as a country like the Netherlands (not that Netherlands is supporting its own population, because it is not) because the majority of its geography is shield rock or tundra and the climate is cold enough to make heating conventional homes impractical and unsustainable.

Consider this when you think Canada is vast with a low density of people 3.3 people per square kilometer.

http://www.canadainfolink.ca/chartten.htm

Ellesmere Island is 196,236 square kilometers. Canada is 9,970,610 square kilometers.

So the number 3.3 people per square kilometer means that the population was 32,903,013 at the time of this 2001 census.

Time for a reality check: ...

Toronto's average annual temperature is about 10 degrees celcius.

Eureka Nunavut on Ellesmere Island has an average annual temperature of -20 degrees celcius. Yes, that's negative twenty!!

If you take away the land of Ellesmere Island since no one lives there, Canada has only 9,774,374 square kilometers jumping its density from 3.3 people/km2 to 3.4 people/km2.

Ellesmere is just one arctic island. If you look at the density of Ontario, it is 12.6 people per square kilometer, even though most of Ontario is uninhabitatble shield sometimes with permafrost. In fact 90% of Ontarians live on a region occupying only 10% of the land. The other 10% of Ontarians are in what is classified as Northern Ontario but the majority of them are clinging to the southern parts of Northern Ontario such as Sudbury, Thunder Bay and North Bay.

1 kilometer squared is about 200 acres. That means the average 200 acres in Ontario would have 13 people on it.

Canada does not seem so vast anymore does it?

[Hollus]

Aren't our rivers, forests, lakes, oceans getting cleaner over the past couple of decades?

I look for evidence to the contrary?

These fanatics keep predicting the end of things based upon a need for secondary impulses and ignoring the basic REAL problems - such as muslim intolerance of the othe cultures - that we face.

I nice luxury in a great society. Let's wake up to the real problems and stop pounding the drum for the false ones.

If I may borrow a line that I read one this board: “pull your head out of your ass. Get some air. Wipe off your head”

You certainly seem to have taken the biscuit the ol’ war machine is hanging out: Don’t think about anything. Focus on the enemy. Its good against evil.

Do you have any idea of the history of western influence in the middle east? To a large part of the world we are the terrorists, and we've been dolling out the terror around the world for most of the century.

Try to take a step back and observe things as if you were completely neutral to the clash between these two societies. Do some research on the topic while trying to discern between the different groups who stand to benifit from it.

Here are a few places to startThe Power of Nightmares part l You can watch the BBC three series documentary by Adam Curtis. Part ll

Part lll

War Corporatism-wiki to familiarize yourself the idea of war corporatism.

The New Fascism A short video worth watching.

Once you've done some more researh and cut through the war propaganda, it might be a good time to introduce yourself the 9/11 truth movement.

[fixed power of nightmares link. dont even need to download it now, and you can watch all three parts]

[Montgomery Burns]

August:

Suzuki is a good example of why natural scientists and engineers should stay away from social questions. Suzuki may be good in analyzing the genetic structures of fruit flies, and explaining this to non-scientists, but he has little notion of how people are and what society is.

Does the reverse apply? Should people with no scientific backgrounds whatsoever get input into a field where they have no expertise? Exhibit A:

I'm going by Steve Milloy's stats. He's not exactly a nobody--although the liberal media refuses to give him any airtime. Thank goodness for Fox News who does give him air time.

Steve Milloy's credentials: Biostatistician, lawyer, adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute. Milloy holds a B.A. in Natural Sciences from the Johns Hopkins University, a Master of Health Sciences in Biostatistics from the Johns Hopkins University School of Hygiene and Public Health, a Juris Doctorate from the University of Baltimore, and a Master of Laws from the Georgetown University Law Center.

Conspiciuous in its abscence in this list of qualifications is an actual science degree. So: Steve Milloy is not a scientist. Milloy is a bought-and-paid for shill, having spent his career suckling at the teat of Exxon-Mobile and Philip Morris.

As usual, Black Dog shoots his mouth off before even reading my link. Milloy uses numbers given by Kyoto advocates and skeptics alike. Then he employs statistics--something he is certainly qualified in.

He also gives numerous links to credible - disqualifying al-Gore - studies from non-partisan organizations who came up with similar figures.

As for spending an entire career sucking at the teat...yes, David Suzuki has spent his career sucking at the teat of the Canadian taxpayer.

[geoffrey]

If I may borrow a line that I read one this board: “pull your head out of your ass. Get some air. Wipe off your head”

You certainly seem to have taken the biscuit the ol’ war machine is hanging out: Don’t think about anything. Focus on the enemy. Its good against evil.

Do you have any idea of the history of western influence in the middle east? To a large part of the world we are the terrorists, and we've been dolling out the terror around the world for most of the century.

Try to take a step back and observe things as if you were completely neutral to the clash between these two societies. Do some research on the topic while trying to discern between the different groups who stand to benifit from it.

Here are a few places to start:The Power of Nightmares You can download and watch the BBC part 2 of a three series documentary by Adam Curtis.

War Corporatism-wiki to familiarize yourself the idea of war corporatism.

The New Fascism A short video worth watching.

Once you've done some more researh and cut through the war propaganda, it might be a good time to introduce yourself the 9/11 truth movement.

Come on Hollus. We aren't Americans. Canada doesn't engage in war corporatism. Give me a break.

If we are talking Americans, then yes, I've got issue with their government's huge spending, they aren't real conservatives. Especially on military. But Canada? Not a chance.

If you want a book that appeases some of your issues without bankrupting everyone, I suggest The End of Poverty by Jeffrey Sachs. He writes at length about the consequences of what you've labeled war corporatism. I downed it in one sitting so it's actually not that boring of a read. I like it because it doesn't have your group's the end of the world is coming attitude yet discusses poverty solutions quite progressively.

[Hollus]

Come on Hollus. We aren't Americans. Canada doesn't engage in war corporatism. Give me a break.

If we are talking Americans, then yes, I've got issue with their government's huge spending, they aren't real conservatives. Especially on military. But Canada? Not a chance.

If you want a book that appeases some of your issues without bankrupting everyone, I suggest The End of Poverty by Jeffrey Sachs. He writes at length about the consequences of what you've labeled war corporatism. I downed it in one sitting so it's actually not that boring of a read. I like it because it doesn't have your group's the end of the world is coming attitude yet discusses poverty solutions quite progressively.

I never suggested we were Geoffrey. I was referring to Jerry’s post, in which it sounded like he suggested that the problems we’ve been discussing in this thread are unimportant and that we should focus on fighting with muslims. Unless I miscomprehended his post, that’s just ludicrous.

My rebuttal was intended to address what I perceive as a victim of war propaganda and fear mongering. I believe that the intention of the propaganda is to create the mindset which I took that post to represent.

I also wanted to draw attention to the fact the western world- which includes Canada- has rightfully been viewed as colonial oppressors in the region.

“Driven by a desire to keep the vast oil reserves in hands friendly to the United States, a wish to keep out potential rivals (such as the Soviet Union), opposition to neutrality in the cold war, and domestic political considerations, the United States has compiled a record of tragedy in the Middle East. The most recent part of that record, which includes U.S. alliances with Iraq to counter Iran and then with Iran and Syria to counter Iraq, illustrates a theme that has been played in Washington for the last 45 years.”(you will have to scroll down to find the report for some reason.)

I know that’s American foreign policy, not Canada’s, but I think it’s important to consider, being as we are in allegiance with America in a war on terrorists which arguably they created.

Enough about that ridiculous interjection into our discussion about the growing problems in our relation to the earth. I hope you didn’t think I was referring to anything you and I were discussing. I did not label anything ‘war corporatism’ I was just drawing attention to its definition.

Thank you for the book recommendation, I’ve already got it next on my list. I’ve checked it though its pretty damn thick; you read it in one sitting, what are you a speed reader? Can you actually comprehend reading that fast?.. If so I’m jealous.

Regarding the disconnect between you and I, I don’t really know what to say. My perception of the dangerous path that we’re headed is all based on very real, very serious issues with the potential to cause irreversible damage to the planet. How else should I express my concern on this forum?