Government Accountability for Taxes

[Concerned]

I have extracted specific arguments regarding taxation from a string of posts on “Canada’s wealthiest province rejects the left”… which has been convoluted by many issues…and pasted them in this new string for ease of reference.

I agree with Hicksey, QUOTE:

“Hicksey: We need some sort of transparency bill where our government is responsible to report to us how much of the allotted money in their budgets actually made it to the intended purpose, how much was lost to bureaucracy, the resulting efficiency of the funding, how well it stands up against set targets for efficiency, and what their target and plan for hitting their target for the next year is….

The amount of taxation in this country compared to what we get for it is an absolute abomination. We need someone to really stand up for Canada and start standing up for Canadians' interests. This is not a partisan comment because I used the conservative slogan. We all benefit from such accountability. It's really irrelevant who delivers it, but so badly needed….”

The problem with arguments presented by left vs. right, is that left rarely uses numbers to express their arguments for funding of various government programs, the right at least attempts to. The left too often relies on rhetoric.

“According to the World Health Organization, Canada’s health care ranks 30th in the world, with the US ranking 38th”… yet Canada is number one amongst those industrialized countries that have universal access, publicly-funded health care—in total age-adjusted spending”…(An International Comparison of Health Care Systems, Fraser Institute 2005)

At least health care is something that can be compared globally…some of our other social programs also can. Our governments should use global comparisons to create benchmarks for efficiencies. But there are SO MANY programs that cannot be compared globally and are hidden away in taxes in our system, which allows for inefficiency of government, and unfair taxation laws.

Here is a simple example happening in BC this year. The government is planning to twin the Port Mann Bridge costing taxpayers millions of dollars, a long overdue investment to try to provide a solution to the problem of commuting from the Fraser Valley to the city, which has existed now for decades. The question of paying for this bridge by using a tolling system or a gas tax is currently at issue. What I like about the tolling system is that it can be accounted for…a gas tax is simply another hidden tax, and unfair to certain groups of taxpayers. Take those who live in the city. My home is a modest one on a small lot in central urban area. In order to live close to work I pay a huge tax, by way of the capital I have to invest in my home…valued now at over $600k. I often imagine moving out to the valley, where I grew up, to live in a large beautiful house on a sizeable lot, for roughly half the price. Instead I choose a huge mortgage and save on the commute. Those who live in the valley already enjoy the lower price of real estate, and a higher standard of household living. Why should I pay to ease their commute through a gas tax? As far as I’m concerned they already have the benefit of the better living, they can pay for the bridge expense through a toll.

So many of our taxes are hidden and allow the government room for inefficiency, and unfair taxes to taxpayers who do not derive the benefit. I believe that having a cost accountability system would increase the benefits of social programs, and additionally reduce the inequities between taxpayers.

[Concerned]

Here are the quotes I extracted from the other string (purposely did not show authors to reduce personal bias')

".....Any regime that takes more in taxes from a family than they pay for food, shelter, clothing and transportation combined is definitely a socialist regime…

Considering half our income is paid to taxation every year, we know they take an amount nearly equal to it. Tax Freedom Day in 2005 was June 25th. That means we worked 6 months minus 5 days just to pay our tax bill. That's assuming all our income went to paying taxes.

And considering that people buy extras that they don't need and are not on the list provided above I'd say its a pretty safe bet that we are taxed more than we pay on those items…"

"…..Truth about "Tax Freedom Day"

"...The institute is clearly trying to incite Canadians to anger, to encourage them to join with members of the financial elite in a kind of collective tax rage. With their taxes, Canadian citizens buy their most valued goods and services: high-quality public schools, world-class universities, excellent medical services, public parks and libraries, safe streets, and livable cities,'' concluded Brooks, a taxation specialist at Osgoode. "Even if it were useful to inform Canadians how many days they had to work in order to earn enough to pay their taxes, the information the Fraser Institute presents about the tax system is flawed, misleading, seriously distorts public knowledge, and hinders rational debate about the tax system."

"…..I saw a copy of the Citizen today that lamented how Tax Freedom Day is a day later than it was last year. I hate the concept of Tax Freedom Day. It's a great little headline, but it really misconstrues what taxes are about (i.e. paying for stuff we use). The Fraser Institute, which is the group that puts this out every year, says that you shouldn't consider what you get for taxes because that's not what the study is about. But the problem is that if you read the study, it's all about how we pay to much tax and how before June 28, you're "working for the government". Now tell me, what do you think they're trying to say?

But let's look at the figure. According to their numbers, the average tax bill per family is $31,652.

According to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, a family of four would spend $15,356 worth of services for Health Care.

A study by the Government of Alberta pegs the average cost of education for two students at $13,668 per year.

If you drive (which most do), you need to pay your share of road maintenance. According to the Federation of Canadian Municipalities tack on another $800.

That leaves $1,828 of taxes, which would mean that Tax Freedom Day would fall on January 10, or just about the time I get over my New Year's hangover. Of course, that's ignoring little things like national defence, policing, garbage collection, and other services we couldn't live without "

"……Not only is the whole concept misleading but the Fraser Institute (a biased "think tank" funded by corporate-welfare) fakes the numbers….

Pardon me for not being outraged about "Tax Freedom Day". It's a hoax "

"…There is no 'faking' the numbers. $15,000 a year in health care is ridiculous considering I can get private care in the states for about $500 a month ($6000/year) for a family including EVERYTHING, not just what the government decides to cover that month. So lets cut that.

Education costing that much is another scary thought. Private schools cost just a little higher than that in my area. Cut that.

So we can get higher quality, more efficient services by paying less? Someone want to tell me why this is so hard for Canadians to understand and persue?"

" ….I wouldn't be outraged if we got $15,356 worth of health care each year. But watching my mother wait 12 weeks past when her doctor recommended she start chemo for a spot at the cancer clinic to open up, and as a direct result see her cancer spread further requiring further surgery. That's not fifteen thousand dollars of health care.

I wouldn't be outraged if every time I took my kids to the hospital for care that I missed a day of work because waiting times are that long. It would be nice to be able to just go to the doctor, but waiting 3-5 weeks to see a doctor in the office just doesn't cut it. And now we're starting to get user fees on top of that fifteen thousand. We're paying to be neglected until our health really gets bad at which time they'll get to us before we die if we're really lucky. My mother was lucky, but not my mother in law. We got to see her neglected and doctors took so long it got to the point where she could no longer be helped and we got to watch her wither away and die before our eyes.

We pay for much better health care than that. For fifteen thousand a year I can buy better health insurance is the US than that and go to hospitals that guarantee that I am treated as quickly as my doctor recommends. Not as fast as a finite budget allows"

" … I agree. It's not what we spend on health care, it's what we get for our money compared to other countries. We rate as one of the biggest per capita spenders but are well down the list when it comes to delivery. And that is not according to the Fraser Institute "