Blair pulls plug on Kyoto

[Riverwind]

Russia and the other European countries were also in recession and Russia's growth since 1991 has been nothing to write home about. That excuse has worn thin and I don't see even the US trying to make it any more. It was another Bushism and not used by Clinton who had agreed to ratify Kyoto.

That is my point. Countries with economies that have growed slowly or contracted since 1991 will find it easier to meet the Kyoto targets.

[Pateris]

China cannot sell credits and may have to buy them when its targets are set.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

China will never buy credits. Who would they buy them from??? The world economy is growing an NO country will meet their Kyoto targets.

Second - there is currently NO structure to "set targets" post-2012. Therefore, so long as major countries are not going to negotiate, there will be no extension of Kyoto fter 2012.

Finally, Canada will fail to meet our Kyoto commitment. Massively. And do you think the government of the day is going to have the political will to sent Russia BILLIONS of dollars a year for essentially NOTHING in return? I don't.

Musings of the Technical Bard

[stubblejumper]

There are lots of things we as citizens can do to lower emissions and save ourselves money. Upgrade your furnace, re-insulate your house, buy energy efficient appliances and Hybrid cars. These will all have an impact on our CO emissions and save us money. The extra spending on upgrading will also boost the economy. So why not? Win-Win-Win

If we all do our part then the economy will prosper ,not fall apart. Which is just industrial propaganda.

I've done most of these and have saved nearly $100 a month on energy.

[Pateris]

There are lots of things we as citizens can do to lower emissions and save ourselves money. Upgrade your furnace, re-insulate your house, buy energy efficient appliances and Hybrid cars. These will all have an impact on our CO emissions and save us money. The extra spending on upgrading will also boost the economy. So why not? Win-Win-Win

If we all do our part then the economy will prosper ,not fall apart. Which is just industrial propaganda.

I've done most of these and have saved nearly $100 a month on energy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good for you. Unfortunately, there is a very limited advance that can be made with regard to reducing CO2 emissions through efficiency gains. My house is modern and has a high-efficiency furnace, is well insulated, and has energy efficient appliances. One could buy a diesel car and be even better than a hybrid. But I still contribute to CO2 emissions. And if the economy and population are growing, efficiency gains CANNOT reduce CO2 emissions to levels below 1990. Not even close. Kyoto is dead.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Pateris,

And if the economy and population are growing, efficiency gains CANNOT reduce CO2 emissions to levels below 1990. Not even close. Kyoto is dead.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I asked you a couple of years ago what you would consider 'valid empirical evidence' as to whether or not there was such a thing as 'global warming'...I believe your response was 'several, large, recurrent hurricanes'...bigger than normal, and several in a row...and a couple of seasons in a row...

[cybercoma]

Dear Pateris,

And if the economy and population are growing, efficiency gains CANNOT reduce CO2 emissions to levels below 1990. Not even close. Kyoto is dead.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I asked you a couple of years ago what you would consider 'valid empirical evidence' as to whether or not there was such a thing as 'global warming'...I believe your response was 'several, large, recurrent hurricanes'...bigger than normal, and several in a row...and a couple of seasons in a row...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately that only shows the temperature of the oceans (more specifically the Gulf of Mexico) has been rising. Showing an increase in temperature and also an increase in CO2 emissions doesn't necessarily mean the CO2 emissions caused the increase in temperature. There was a small climate cooling (some call it the small ice age) in the 1800s, the temperature can only rise from where it was at.

The fact that industry and population has increased several times over and the average temperature has increased less than 2 degrees since that time, is evidence enough that they're not directly related.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear cybercoma,

The fact that industry and population has increased several times over and the average temperature has increased less than 2 degrees since that time, is evidence enough that they're not directly related.

How is this 'evidence'?

Very well, cybercoma, I shall direct the question to you...what will for you constitute 'empirical proof' rather than theory of global warming?

[cybercoma]

Dear cybercoma,

The fact that industry and population has increased several times over and the average temperature has increased less than 2 degrees since that time, is evidence enough that they're not directly related.

How is this 'evidence'?

Very well, cybercoma, I shall direct the question to you...what will for you constitute 'empirical proof' rather than theory of global warming?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

scientific consensus.

[Canuck E Stan]

Why Kyoto will never succeed, by Blair

Mr Blair, who has been seen up to now as a strong supporter of the Kyoto Treaty, effectively tore the document up and admitted that rows over its implementation will "never be resolved."

Mr Blair admitted that there would probably never be a successor treaty to Kyoto, which expires in 2012, and said the "answer" was merely to try to introduce "incentives" for business and large-scale energy users to make cut-backs. He said: "To be honest, I don't think people are going, at least in the short term, to start negotiating another major treaty like Kyoto."

"And the Prime Minister does not seem to have any clear idea about how to implement this on a global scale, which is why Britain has now become a bystander, despite the pomp of Mr Blair's various presidencies."

Looks like Blair is facing the reality of Kyoto and admits it's going nowhere.

Now it's Canada's turn to do the same.Time for a "made in Canada" plan to resolve our environmetal problems.

[mcqueen625]

It was a faulty accord in the first place simply by the fact that it allowed China to be exempt from the protocols. That did not even make remote sense since they have one of the largest economies in the world and they are the most polluting country on the globe. At least the U.S. seen the accord for what it was, an accord that put them at an even greater disadvantage in the world economy, while Canada just wnet marrily along with it.

For Canada to continue down this path will only put us at an even greater disadvantage. The U.S. is following their own agenda and their advances in pollution reduction are far ahead of our own. The provinces of this country were not in favour of Canada signing this accord but our federal government went ahead and signed anyway, that's how much they pay attention to Canadians.

We would be foolhardy to leave our signature on this accord since it is all but dead anyway, and it will leave us at an economic disadvantage compared to country's like China who never was compelled to sign in the first place.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear cybercoma,

scientific consensus.

That will never be achieved, someone will always try to make a name for themselves by being a 'naysayer', and further, some scientists are paid for 'findings' that serve specific interests. Besides, as asked "What for you will be empirical evidence". Going from 'someone told me so' to 'everyone told me so' can be effective, but it is the 'proof' of the wishy-washy.

[cybercoma]

Dear cybercoma,

scientific consensus.

That will never be achieved, someone will always try to make a name for themselves by being a 'naysayer', and further, some scientists are paid for 'findings' that serve specific interests. Besides, as asked "What for you will be empirical evidence". Going from 'someone told me so' to 'everyone told me so' can be effective, but it is the 'proof' of the wishy-washy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing will ever be good enough then. There is very little in science that is indisputable proof.