Ontario By Election

[charter.rights]

What does any of that have to do with Harris?

It was Harris' government that cut the mandated provincial lab testing of municipal water supplies and instead left it to municipalities to deal with private contractors on a minimally regulated basis. So he is to blame for the tainted water every bit as much as Keobel brother's. Had the requirement for testing not been sloughed off it is likely the Ministry of the Environment would have caught the unqualified collection of samples or the E.Coli contamination, or both before people died.

"I conclude that the budget reductions had two types of effects on the tragedy in Walkerton. First, with respect to the decision to privatize the laboratory testing of drinking water samples, and especially the way in which that decision was implemented, the budget reductions are connected directly to the events of May 2000. Second, in the case of the MOE’s approvals and inspections programs, the budget reductions are indirectly linked to the events in May 2000 in that they made it less likely that the MOE would pursue proactive measures that would have prevented or limited the tragedy." Commissioner Dennis O'Connor Chapter 11 Walkerton Inquiry

[daniel]

...But I would caution the Premier that Tory's defeat was not necessarily a repudiation of the Ontario PCs. Dalton has been at this politics game a long time, yet IMO he is naive enough to think that the PC leader losing the byelection assures he will remain King for who knows how many other mandates. If this Liberal Party victory lulls him into a false sense of security, his government will soon commit bigger gaffes than they already have....

Referencing these sentences a time-line and progress comparision against Dalton's predecessor, he has really nothing to worry about.

Seven years after the change in government, the PCs switched leaders. If Dalton decides to stay on, I don't think he'll have alot of problems.

[capricorn]

If Dalton decides to stay on, I don't think he'll have alot of problems.

Possibly. What I'm getting at is the longer he stays in office the more complacent his government will become. This complacency can result in sloppy governance and scandal. We had a taste of this in 2007 when Mike Colle, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, granted the Ontario Cricket Club $1M when they actually asked $150,000. The province did not ask for a reimbursement of the excess amount. Oh my, but Ontarians are forgiving.

[madmax]

What does any of that have to do with Harris?

Or John Tory?

[guyser]

It was Harris' government that cut the mandated provincial lab testing of municipal water supplies and instead left it to municipalities to deal with private contractors on a minimally regulated basis. So he is to blame for the tainted water every bit as much as Keobel brother's.

Too funny. You actually believe that? So sad.

Had Harris left everything alone, the Drunk Bros would have still lied , and people died.

Had the requirement for testing not been sloughed off it is likely the Ministry of the Environment would have caught the unqualified collection of samples or the E.Coli contamination, or both before people died.

Sleep well tonite thinking that mmmk?

Dont worry, there are others who are pretty misinformed about this.

I am also pretty sure why you dont like Harris, and it aint Walkerton.

[guyser]

Or John Tory?

Good point.

Of course it hasnt been answered , but there ya go.

[charter.rights]

Too funny. You actually believe that? So sad.

Had Harris left everything alone, the Drunk Bros would have still lied , and people died.

Sleep well tonite thinking that mmmk?

Dont worry, there are others who are pretty misinformed about this.

I am also pretty sure why you dont like Harris, and it aint Walkerton.

It isn't what I believe but the findings of the Walkerton Inquiry. I guess you didn't read the report.

Had Harris not gutted Ontario Ministries we would be a whole lot better today, including education, health care, MNR and MOE. His thoughtless hacking at funding created a downturn in the quality of all those services that we are still suffering from today. His Common Sense Revolution was neither built on common seens or was a revolution in thought. It was just ultra-right wing thinking given a majority mandate and it all went terribly wrong.

[guyser]

It isn't what I believe but the findings of the Walkerton Inquiry. I guess you didn't read the report.

Read the report? Why bother, the lead lawyer is a close friend of mine. Updates came almost daily.

One question...if they werent drunk and reported what they found, what would have been the outcome?

[charter.rights]

Read the report? Why bother, the lead lawyer is a close friend of mine. Updates came almost daily.

One question...if they werent drunk and reported what they found, what would have been the outcome?

Oh but your lawyer friend did not make the findings, so all his biased updates aren't worth a hill of beans if they don't match the published report.....which obviously they don't.

Since Koebel pretty much didn't know what he was doing and was unqualified to be doing the testing, the outcome would have likely been the same. The contamination did not come because he was drunk. It was caused by his inability to interpret the results as being serious, allowing the contamination to go on for so long. It was also the result of no one over-seeing or regulating the testing procedures because of Harris' budgetary cutbacks.

READ THE REPORT! It is all there!

Edited March 10, 2009 by charter.rights

[guyser]

Oh but your lawyer friend did not make the findings, so all his biased updates aren't worth a hill of beans if they don't match the published report.....which obviously they don't.

Dont know much about inquiries do you?

Since Koebel pretty much didn't know what he was doing and was unqualified to be doing the testing, the outcome would have likely been the same.

Ok, now we know you are either lying or cant read. He knew there wasa problem and failed to act on it.

The contamination did not come because he was drunk. It was caused by his inability to interpret the results as being serious, allowing the contamination to go on for so long. It was also the result of no one over-seeing or regulating the testing procedures because of Harris' budgetary cutbacks.

READ THE REPORT! It is all there!

We know the contamination was not because of booze, no one said it was.

'It was caused by his inability to interpret the results as being serious, allowing the contamination to go on for so long' - no, sorry not true. Why would they fudge the results if they couldnt interpret them?

'It was also the result of no one over-seeing or regulating the testing procedures because of Harris' budgetary cutbacks'-No again, lax inspection protocols existed under many Ont govts.

Primary fault is Koebels'. Afterall they were charged and convicted . Was Harris? Was any ministry?

[charter.rights]

Dont know much about inquiries do you?

Ok, now we know you are either lying or cant read. He knew there wasa problem and failed to act on it.

We know the contamination was not because of booze, no one said it was.

'It was caused by his inability to interpret the results as being serious, allowing the contamination to go on for so long' - no, sorry not true. Why would they fudge the results if they couldnt interpret them?

'It was also the result of no one over-seeing or regulating the testing procedures because of Harris' budgetary cutbacks'-No again, lax inspection protocols existed under many Ont govts.

Primary fault is Koebels'. Afterall they were charged and convicted . Was Harris? Was any ministry?

Harris slipped out from a number of issues he contributed to.

However, Commissioner Dennis O'Connor concluded that the Harris government was partly the cause of not preventing the spread of e.coli. Had the regulation been in place and the funding been in place and the training been in place there is little likelihood that this would have happened. But it did and combined with the Koebels not doing their job and not being knowledgeable, the under-funding of the MOE and the cutting of mandatory testing contributed to it. That was the finding of the commission.

You can dispute it all you want but you can't divert the blame from Harris' government policies. The commission ruled its involvement contributed to the Walkerton tragedy as a matter of fact.

[guyser]

Harris slipped out from a number of issues he contributed to.

In other words there was no criminal finding on his part.

However, Commissioner Dennis O'Connor concluded that the Harris government was partly the cause of not preventing the spread of e.coli.

Partly.

Had the regulation been in place and the funding been in place and the training been in place there is little likelihood that this would have happened. But it did and combined with the Koebels not doing their job and not being knowledgeable, the under-funding of the MOE and the cutting of mandatory testing contributed to it. That was the finding of the commission.

Dont kid yourself. The K's knew they were f***ing up. They knew th e test results were dangerous.

No amount of funding, no amount of anything will help if the people in place are

1) lying

2) drunk on the job

3) know that they are jeopardizing people

[charter.rights]

In other words there was no criminal finding on his part.

Partly.

Dont kid yourself. The K's knew they were f***ing up. They knew th e test results were dangerous.

No amount of funding, no amount of anything will help if the people in place are

1) lying

2) drunk on the job

3) know that they are jeopardizing people

It is not up to an inquiry to find criminal responsibility unless it is written into the terms of reference. We have investigators and courts to do that.

I guess you haven't been to too many inquiries or know much about them.

Who cares about the Koebels? The Commission found the the provincial government under Harris complicit. Trying to divert from that fact is just lame.

[daniel]

...

Doesn't really matter what the right-wingers in this forum think. I'm just glad the rest of the population doesn't share their opinions.

[Wild Bill]

Doesn't really matter what the right-wingers in this forum think. I'm just glad the rest of the population doesn't share their opinions.

Perhaps that's why some folks just can't accept leftwing arguments. They start off with a partisan assumption and when challenged with facts they try to 'slide' away from what they had stated.

Then they end up saying it doesn't matter anyway 'cuz all folks of that persuasion are evil!

As for the rest of the population, have you asked them? How do you know? Do you have a link that gives some hard evidence?

Even if your claim is true, much of the population also believes in astrology. So what? Does the Universe care what people believe and reality adjusts to the majority view?

No, these kinds of premises are the pitch of the carnival con man. Sad to say, they often work. Still, they are rarely correct.

[daniel]

...

As for the rest of the population, have you asked them? How do you know? Do you have a link that gives some hard evidence?...

It's been proven in this web site on at least three occasions. The latest is this poll.