Bayman35
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Posts posted by Bayman35
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Cripes. You are blinded by your NDippershiP
He was extremely popular in the party. He received the nomination. This is the party that wants to represent the logger in the Saguenay...the wheat farmer in Swift current? What the friggin heck does the NDP believe in if they all rallied behind a jewell thief?
Actually it was the residents of Vancouver who wanted to nominate him, not the party. We had to accept the nomination because he won a highly contested nomination for the riding. So as a leader what are your options? Accept what the riding has done, or fight it and lose a bunch of the parties money and eventually the case itself, leaving us with no money and the candidate we didn't want to win or let the people of his riding judge what he has done and try and put your best face on. Well Layton chose to put his best face on and let the riding determine his future, they did voting in what's her name Hedi Frie? or however you spell it you know the Liberal who said "there were crosses burning in Prince George". This is not an original concept either, take a look at BC politics in general their preier was convicted of drunk driving yet he is still at the wheel of the province and he isn't NDP.
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????? It's okay for a jewell thief to run for the NDP because of the above? You are a microcosm of what's wrong with the NDP. Close your eyes and don't look at the rot within but excuse it away by 'the other guy is....'
At any point in that statement did I say "it was okay for him to run" because I don't see that anywhere so put your bag of words away and stop throwing them in people's mouthes. I didn't agree with him running, the fact is he was highly popular in his riding before "the theft" but none of that would have mattered in the long run, the fact is he would have won a human rights case against the party hands down because of the obvious reasons for us turning down his nomination would have forced us to accept him anyways. We had no choice, which is worse for a party to accept his nomination knowing if we don't he wins anyways and we just spent a huge sack of money trying to fight against someone's human rights or just accept it knowing that the riding itself will be the judge and they were, he never got elected. I think given the choice we made was the right thing and left it up to the people of his constituency and they rendered judgement. So before you make a statement like "you are a microcosm of what's wrong with the NDP" make sure you know what you are talking about and exactly what it is you are being critical of. As for mentioning the stuff about the environment it was to demonstrate that there is so-called "rot" everywhere and that people living in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.
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So true. the NDP is so littered with airhead intellectuals at the riding level that they are removed from the reality of the workers and farmers. So blinded by their self-righteousness and 'preaching' to the unwashed masses that they hve no hope of changing their stripes. Nominating a thief and having a leader too afraid to challenge the idiots who nominated him says wonders about how caked in rot the NDP has become.
That being the case, how do they have 27 federal seats? How did they almost take government in Nova Scotia, BC, Saskatchewan, NWT, and still have government in Manitoba? Whether you like it or not they are still a political force in this country and I don't think its because they are "airheads removed from the reality of workers and farmers" they just don't have influence in Alberta, so what. Canada is the some of all of its parts no just Alberta. For gods sake I hate Conservative ideology with a passion that is just about sexual in intensity but I don't think they are "airheads" because I don't agree with them. We just don't agree and that's that, I have a lot of respect for some Conservatives out there and I even voted for Joe Clark once, I just no longer identify with most of what they stand for. I work as hard as anybody in here, I have an education yes but I work on and with heavy equipment everyday and I don't feel like the party is out of touch whatsoever in the rest of the country. What makes me laugh is when you see Harper and Stelmach talking about greenhouse gas when Ed says I want to reduce by 12% by 2050 and Harper says "no Ed by 2020" and they all make themselves try and look like they give two s@$#'s about the environment. Hint vast majority of Canadians aren't buying your political stunt outside of Alberta, that's why no matter how much the Liberals screw up or for that matter the NDP these Alliance I mean Conservatives can't win a majority government, they aren't trusted either.
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He ran for the NDP. Kid you not. Layton embraced the ring-stealing thief. No, he didn't steal a loaf or bread but jewellry....and Layton had him run under the NDP banner.
And that party claims to speak for workers and farmers? They run a ring-stealing thief and preach social justice to the poor? To workers who earn their money and BUY a ring. To farmers who sweat in the fields to earn a wage to BUY a ring. They allow a thief to run as an NDP candidate and wonder why they are not taken serious?
Jack didn't really have a choice, the riding association propped him up and the party ran a good candidate against him for the nomination but he still got more backing from the riding association. As soon as he won the contested nomination he made it quite clear to the party that it was illegal to discriminate against anyone with a criminal record. With that statement out in the open what choice did we have, if we turned down his nomination he would have launched a complaint with the Human Rights commission almost immediately. So given the choices there really was no choice. That and where is your good christian values about when someone asks for forgiveness they get it? LOL
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Yes, it is somewhat comical. Intelligence is often defined as the ability to build on knowledge to adjust to changing situations. in contrast, the NDP is like the wind-up toy robot hitting the wall over and over and never learning that no matter how hard it tries, the toy robot isn't going to go through the wall.
One would think that after decades and decades and over a dozen elections both Federally and in Alberta that the NDP would have changed it's losing tactics but NOPE...just keeps trying to walk through the wall over and over.
No Bayman, it's not a leadership gaffe or the press or Albertn's being uninformed, it's the friggin message. But nope, 4 years from now the NDP will preach the same drivel....and get their ass kicked. Federaly the NDP will preach the same drivel and also get their ass kicked in all 27 ridings.
Well I think you are right for the most part, although I would say that in both cases losing your seat by less then 200 votes could be attributable to a gaffe on leaderships behalf. The NDP does beat the same drum every four years and believe me there are those of us involved that want "the message" to change. The problem is what does the party want? Do they want influence or do they want government? Most are contented with the former where as some of us aren't. Our message does need to change though from that of social justice every four years to something else. One of my suggestions would have been to not only increase oil royalties but use that money to give people a personal income tax break. After the electorate got over the shock of an NDP government proposing a tax break they might have seen it as a move towards the middle and we might have held at least a couple of our seats. That and the fact that in Edmonton and Calgary the voting percentages were over 50% against the Tories but in our "first past the post" system they gained the majority of the seats. I really think that proportional representation is a far better system of government. I enjoy the way Canada's federal politics are working right now, minority governments force our politicians to work. As for "getting our ass kicked" federally we are still hovering at the same percentages throughout all our federal ridings so I don't know where you are getting your #'s from? That and the fact is if Dion stays on as leader for the next federal election we will probably get more seats due to the fact that the federal Liberals are listless and ineffective. Right now they are proving they are no different then the federal Conservatives which generally speaking means that the left wing of their party will vote for us, it is possible that we might end up with more seats due to the ineffectiveness of the Liberals, and the fact remains the federal Tories still have not gained any substantial #'s in Quebec or Ontario the two provinces where they need to gain traction. Federally speaking I think you are way off, however provincially I will say you are right on the money, message, leadership, and the party needs to change their angle dramatically but we still got over 60,000 votes and can be as proud of that as the Tories are of obtaining a majority with roughly 22% of eligible voters putting them there. There is no doubt our message needs to change because we are far to negative to appeal to the electorate here in Alberta. We need to put a positive message out there because the BC NDP approach of going after the Liberals is far to negative for Albertans. Don't tell me that the more royalties would have scared away investors because frankly taking a look at a Conservative premier Danny Williams took on the oil companies in Newfoundland and won. He forced them to cough up more royalties, build the second platform for offshore drilling in Newfoundland, and build a refinery in Newfoundland. Danny did this because the Newfoundland government bought in on 5% of the companies doing the drilling, which doesn't appear to be much but it has given their government a seat on the board so that they know exactly what is happening and what production is so that royalty rates can be calculated properly and moved up and down on a price sensitive basis so that the windfall income can be shared with both the shareholders and the people of Newfoundland. I think this is an excellent approach from a Conservative premier
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I agree.
statistically speaking those that voted represent a good sample and so had all come out and voted the results would have been similar; maybe 2-3% different.
No offense but we had two NDP MLA's booted by less then 200 votes. Whether you agree with them or not A) The Tories didn't need those two seats because a majority was never in jeopardy and they need some opposition in the leg. That being said when our own leader comes out the day before an election and picks a Tory majority he shot himself in the foot but 2%-3% could have kept Ray Martin and David Eggen in office. Davis was honestly one of the hardest working people I have ever met in my life and the only politician I know that took three years and every day to knock on every door in his riding and there is something to be said for that. Unfortunately I think he was victim to a leadership gaff and two hundred people looked at that headline election day and just said "well if he doesn't believe why should we"
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Seems to me that it's always the losers who start crying about voter turnout being poor!
It's as if they're trying to imply that if 60% hadn't stayed home they would have ALL been voting for THEM!
This is not only illogical but frankly absurd!
Listen I don't think that is what any of us are trying to indicate. I am as far left-wing as it gets, and an admitted very proud socialist. That being said I would never say a higher voter turn out would have toppled this government that would be just plain silly. On the other hand what we are saying is that it is a sad statement for Alberta society in general, even Stelmach in an article for the Sun today suggested that the low voter turnout was disappointing and that there are soldiers currently getting killed overseas to preserve our way of life and yet almost 60% couldn't be bothered. I couldn't have cared less if all 58% of them voted Tory, if anything that would have put an even huger stamp of approval on this government. As it stands though 22% of eligible voters just handed out a crushing majority and that is just sad, I could have been happier had they gotten 56% of 70% of all registered voters. Obviously I am not happy with what happened politically but that means nothing compared to the fact that people just could seem to be bothered and that is just sad. If you are content then at least register that at the ballot box and hand your government you are happy with and even heftier mandate but don't stay at home for gods sake most people would have had to travel less then ten blocks to vote!
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People keep raising the idiotic strawman of low voter participation, over and over.
And it is idiotic.
Here are the two reasons why people do not vote:
1) they do not care. They likely will never care. Since they invest nothing in getting knowledgable about the candidates or issues, it's just as well they don't go to the polls and put their 'X' inside the little square , since it would be a completely random choice.
2) they do care, but are content with whoever gets elected or conmtent with the staus quo. This is a large group of people, 'the contented'.
You see jerry, if people are engaged, active, interested- they vote. If they are unhappy, they vote. if they want change, they vote.
A whole bunch of Albertans were not engeaged, were not discontented,were not unhappy, did not want change - so they stayed home.
Those that did vote, voted very strongly to endorse the PCs and the current Premier. The Tories win over and over because they appeal to the center. The opposition and whiners here keep parroting some halfassed concept that the democratioc process is on death row in Alberta. Hardly - this Premier was chosen in the most open leadership program imaginable where anybopdy with $5 from any partisan background could and did vote. He just got more of the popular vote than all the parties combined.
What the Oppostiion needs to do is clear and simple- come p with leaders , ideas and programs that have some semblance of interest and appeal to Albertans. So far, it is they who have failed to represent or engage Albertans.
Won't argue about the conteted issue some were. I was at a "call house" yesterday though and called about 400 people who answered the phone of those about 300 were voting, around 100 said they weren't. Of the 100 about 70 said they were deciding not to vote because they found all the leaders pathetic. Now through comparing noted from the scrutineers later only about 170 actually voted. It was really sad to hear all that though. Time and time again people saying they were on their way out to vote and then just staying at home. People it seems just couldn't be bothered.
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41% turnout, awesome LOL now there is democracy in action 20% of people decide for everyone. Nobody is shocked by a Tory majority but people here should be ashamed of themselves for not voting. You can say its because it was a foregone conclusion, they knew the outcome and so on and so forth but in the end low voter turnouts especially this low is just plain senseless.
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Firstly they aren't 2/3rds of the population. That's just a convenient rounding off. They are not 66% of the population but 62% of the population. They have 51 of 83 seats. The remaining 32 seats are among the other 38%. Most of those are not 'rural' but cities. Have you been to Red Deer? Lethbridge, etc.?
As stated, the provincial ridings are more evenly distributed by population than the federal ridings. There are only a few rural ridings in Alberta with significanly less population than urban ridings. In contrast there are federal ridings in Canada that are ony 20% the size of others. MLAs and MPs represent their constituants and it's recognized that representing a riding spanning hundreds of kilometers is much more difficult than one compact as in a city. The MLA for Wood Buffalo or Peace River can't be everywhere at once.
Ok well I'm not saying the federal formula is any better, there is only two truly urban ridings in Edmonton federally, that being Strathcona and Edmonton-centre the rest get attached to some part of rural Alberta. For example Rona Ambrose riding is 170st west, Spruce Grove, Stony Plain and others. I think the federal formula sucks even harder. Only other question is why is it the Alberta legislature works the least amount of days of any leg don't they? I mean actually sitting in the leg?
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In looking at the answers to my question earlier I understand the concept of smaller cities and such but shouldn't the electoral boundaries reflect where the population is? I mean if Edmonton and Calgary carry 2/3 of Alberta's population shouldn't they carry 2/3 of the seats? It seams like pretty simple math to me?
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I'd welcome 'Ted' having a shot again, particularly if he repeats the grievous error of welcoming the fundies aboard his campaign.
He got slapped down once, an encore would be welcome.
Ted Morton was rejected not just by Tories, but by all Albertans since thousands of non-Tories joined the Party to make sure Morton had no chance of winning.
A modern democracy has no place for idiocrats like Morton.
If Stelmach goes down it's going to be corporate Jimmy from Calgary that is your next leader. More then likely will be asking someone who just fought through an election to give up their seat for him.
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Just a non-partisan question for everyone, how is it that 2/3 of Albertans live in Edmonton and Calgary yet 1/3 of the population has more seats? Just curious?
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If voter turnout is higher then 65% my prediction is
Conservatives 56
Liberals 15
NDP 6
WRAP 5
Sorry Conservatives 57
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If voter turnout is higher then 65% my prediction is
Conservatives 56
Liberals 15
NDP 6
WRAP 5
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Oh and voter turnout 44%
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My prediction
Conservatives 60
Liberals 14
WRAP 5
NDP 4
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That's not a predition. I haven't heard a single prediciton of anything other than a sweeping majority. I'm surprised anyone living in Alberta could be so out of touch with realty that they would see the situation otherwise.
As for people not voting, that can be analysed forever. Do people not vote because they are content with the current situation? Not vote because they don't like the choices? Not vote because of....? Alberta has the youngest population in Canada and younger people vote less than older folks. Who knows? I'm guessing that many don't vote because they know that the majority of Albertans are quite content with the PCs and their vote simply is irrelevent in riding such as mine in which the PC wallops the opposition. Why have the guy win by 10,001 votes instead of 10,000. I'm that type of voter. If the weather is nice next week, we'll walk over and chat with neighbors and mark an 'x' ...if it's crappy out then probably put our feet up.
You should read the journal today there are quite a few situations being pointed out be Graham Thomson that could be very interesting. That and the fact that there are 289,000 new Albertans eligible to vote and nobody really knows A) if they will vote and
if they do how will it effect the outcomes in various ridings. I'm not arguing with you the Tories will end up with another majority. Most evidence points in that direction, the only "X" factor is what percentage of voters will turn out? How will almost 300,000 new Albertans vote, if they vote? and if the supposedly 20% of Albertans polled who fall into the column of undecided vote then how will they vote? There are just a lot of variables they could change this election, not to say dramatically but it might not be such a sweeping endorsement is all. -
Huh?
Polls show a huge PC majority. Who is predicting otherwise? No one is predicting it won't be a majority. Every poll and pundit indicates the majority may even increase over the last election.
Where did you hear any prediction about a minority?
The latest journal poll done had a sample group that was under a thousand people which is a pretty small snapshot of the population, it's margin of error was pretty large and had an even larger undecided group, I would say more importantly how many people show up period. Hopefully its not 40% of eligible voters deciding the future of this province again. It's pretty pathetic when almost 50% of voters don't even show up here.
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The only real debate in this province is whether the PC's get a minority or a majority. Chances are there will be leadership reviews like crazy next month.
The real fun will be watching the NDP get their communist socialist asses beaten by the Wildrose Alliance party. There's actually a pool at work ($5 to get in; I'm in for $10).
Monday will be fun.
Here's is to hoping you are right, more splitting on your side of things might let a few opposition members run up the middle
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I think the current Tories in Alberta would be center right. The thing about this province that bothers me more then anything is why is voter turnout the lowest in the country. I could swallow 45 years of the Conservatives if more then 70% of eligible voters actually showed up to the polls. I still maintain though that change in government is a good thing in regards to holding the government at hand accountable to the people. I would say that 37 years of Liberals, ND's, or Conservatives is not a healthy thing. Saskatchewan lost their NDP government and even though I support the party I will say it was a healthy thing because now the ND's there realize they can't take things for granted. Gary Doer has done something with the NDP party that alot of the party elite don't like but something that has kept him in office. He brought the Manitoba party towards the center. He has been the most realistic NDP leader in Canada. People trust him and he hasn't violated that trust. What I worry about more then anything in Alberta is value-added jobs. We have a tremendous boom going on right now that has generated 140,000 jobs in construction alone. What worries me is when even right wing institutes such as Deloitte and Touche (very conservative accounting firm (forgive spelling not to sure) comes out and says "at Albert's current rate of development we are afraid that the pace might create an environment that is unsustainable). We have a consortium of large oil producers ask our government to slow down just a short while ago and still they won't even tap the brakes. More importantly what happens when the plants are built and the "construction boom" is over? Right now the national energy board has approved the "keystone" and "alberta clipper" pipelines that will have the capacity to ship 3 million barrels of raw bitumen to refineries that are "re-tooling" as we speak in several states in the US. We need to be making more of that money here in Alberta. Husky oil had a chance to be a leader in this and upgrade their refinery in Lloydminster to handle the bitumen from their mega-project in the Fort Mac area but instead abandoned it for shipping to the US instead. When Asked by the NEB how many value added jobs this refining would add in Alberta after the construction boom is over the oil companies admitted it would create 18,000 well-paid jobs in Alberta, when asked how many well-paid jobs would be created if we ship the capacity of these pipelines down to the US the answer was 17! This is what worries me as much as homelessness, Seniors, rent rates or anything else.
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It's not the leader. The Libs have had a dozen leaders. The NDP have had a dozen leaders.
The Libs don't listen to the population. They keep pandering to the same niche constituency. They speak about housing issues, food banks, the homeless, more money for this and more for that. In the meantime the vast majority of Albertans have good wages, good accomodation, etc. and want to know what the Libs are going to do for them....usually not much at all. The Libs are doomed as long as they keep focusing in on what's wrong. There just isn't a big enough pool of malcontents. Life is really good for most Albertans and most Albertans have earned that lifestyle though ingenuity and hard work. You can't appeal to the voters who move here from outside the provice by preaching gloom. What voters see is job opportunities everywhere, a good education system, health care etc. 'compared' to where they came from. That Lib approach won't work now and hasn't worked in the last dozen elections. Won't work in the next dozen.
You are right on that one, I am an ardent NDP member and a socialist for that matter but the rhetoric put out by the Libs/ND's is the same tired rhetoric. That and Alberta traditionally has one of the lowest voter turnouts in Canada come election time. Even I recognize that the focal point for our party needs to change from its current form. The party needs to step more realistically towards the middle ground. However gone are the days of the Peter Lougheeds, and Grant Notleys of Alberta politics, welcome to the era if leaders on all sides as interesting as a headwound
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Sorry to bring you the bad news, but todays polls have the Liberals at 18% and the NDP at 5%.
That is because the opposition parties here are bereft. That and ever since I started watching the democratic primaries I have began to realize how polling is not all its cracked up to be
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I see that insults are the last vestige of the truly stupid.
So you're still having problems reading, eh? Couldn't make it through the thread? Sorry about all the big words like "CBA". If you actually read the thread you would see the extent of my knowledge concerning the ATA CBA's (especially the part's I learned from Global!) My facts are indisputable and provable. Are yours?
What gave you the idea that anyone out here cares?
Wrong. I'm an Albertan.
My mistake. Your parents were the refugees.
Newfoundland's books have been balanced for years because of transfer theft from hard working Albertans and Ontarians.
Is that so, Oh Mighty Smart One? Would you like to explain to Kwebek that their immigration policy doesn't exist?
That's already in the works.
Hey Posit! Been a while!
If I inspire you, you're not the first, but you're welcome.
Bayman35 (are you going to change your screen name to Bayman36 next year?),
It is weak-minded individuals like you that the provincial Tories are counting on. The more you speak, the more people like me (and there are a lot of them in Alberta) become willing to vote PC just to prevent the socialists from taking power. Listen Little Trudeau, finish what you're doing in my province and then GO HOME. In case you haven't noticed, people of this province don't want you here. Not Newfoundlanders (they're fine), just socialists like you; our province has been doing fine without your politics for a very long time.
Oh and I am home its called CANADA!!!
Alberta Election
in Provincial Politics in Canada
Posted
They chose to rally behind a drunk instead of a thief on that occasion and nobody mentions that, for gods sake the guy was smiling when they took his mug shot! He was probably still loaded