Community Advocate

http://www.canada.com/langleyadvance/index.html So before he goes to trial in the state where he allegedly committed this murder, why is it up to us to ensure that this state's laws can not be enforced on this criminal? I'm not for the death penalty myself, but I don't understand how one country can interfere in another country's laws and be made to bend them in order to get their criminal back for trial. Isn't that like extortion? We won't give him back unless you promise not to kill him? I suppose it works the other way around too, where if a Canadian were to commit this crime in that state, we would be trying to interfere with the sentence of death penalty, because our laws do not include that punishment or consequence for Canadian criminals. If this is the case, I would think that many criminals will be trying to make their way over the border so they can be saved from their state's death penaly. I know if I was a criminal facing the death penalty, I'd be doing all I could to get across that border into Canada.

You can keep saying this, and I will keep telling you you are wrong. I will do this, because I know what I'm doing, and you do not. So, you can't really speak to what I'm doing, especially since I've explained it numerous times already. But, perhaps you're short-term memory isn't so swift right now. More assumptions, as much as you think you can, you simply cannot speak for all pot users, potheads, pot people, whatever. You don't know how it affects people you don't know, and you also don't know what you don't know yet. You can find out for yourself on any 'propaganda' site that deals with mj in the workplace to learn this isn't true. Perhaps for you, whatever job you do, you can carry out your daily activities with no problem. Others can not, depending on how they feel when hi, and what job they are doing, and what papers they've signed upon their acceptance for hire. So, again your statement shows quite a level of ignorance about the effects of pot. Want to start a new thread to discuss all this? Or is this somehow related to the fact that kids who go to school stoned and high on drugs can carry out any of their normal daily activities without any problems whatsoever? I think it's quite funny that you think that's funny! What's the point? Ok, when you've just smoked a doob, I'd agree that you would find it almost impossible for you to know if someone else was. I'll tell you, with people I know, I know when they're high, by looking at them, and usually the smell gives it away beforehand, so no guessing is required. However, if I were to smoke some pot first, your darn right I'd have trouble knowing if someone else was high. But I can still tell with people I know well. In a smaller school, the administration gets to know the students well. You say what you want to say, and I will say what I want to say, and then, we'll be done. Are we done yet? Right out in left field. You are so bent on using pot and making it legal that you still can't see past it to the dangerous drugs kids are on today. Go smoke another fatty and revel in your future reputation without damage. You're quite safe from me and my solutions, and so are your children. And, for you and your children, with regards to me damaging anyone's reputations and futures, I'll tell you that "IF YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHARACTER, YOUR REPUTATION WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF". Hey, c'mon now, I said I'd smoked pot, I never said I did crack! I know, I irritate you, don't I? I hope this is true, cuz I'm as tired as you are, and we're getting nowhere. VIOLATION OF RIGHTS!!!!! Again, all of these rights come with responsibilities. This is what I've taught my kids, but many kids miss the latter part of that because they get so focussed on their rights, they forget about their corresponding responsibilities. The apples don't fall far from the tree. What would I do if my kid was a pot addict? That question is stupid because there is NO SUCH THING. Well, as I've said before, there is such a thing. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it untrue, y'know? And, it's not the government - get off that soapbox - its school administrators and employers holding their students and employees accountable. You're such a 'cool' dad! But, that is NOT the question I asked . And just what would your 'best' involve? You're gonna fix it all on your own, or you're gonna let it be? Most parents have no idea until they are in the thick of this crisis how helpless they are. I do realize that, and also agree with it. And I don't make it my friggin business. So you can stop arguing that now, I've said it many times. This is not about you and your pot smoking, it's about drug testing in schools, and again, you've made your views clear on that a few times, but keep sidetracking the thread. And you need to realize that it's not all about Cannabis, that is YOUR agenda. There are other drugs out there much more dangerous than pot. Again, I haven't compared anything, but since you mention it, depending on the person, and the situation, I certainly can compare the two. Annd yes, there is a safety sensitivity issue here, so I can compare. But I'm not going to do that here. Once you break the law, your privacy rights are somewhat forefeited through your own actions. That's why we need extra measures to protect the identity of the youth criminals. Again, rights come with responsibilities. Not the same danger, different danger. But of course, that's all just propaganda, and only what you say is true. Are ya done yet? I'm so done I'm crispy!

He wouldn't be alone in that either. Check into the harm reduction strategy in Vancouver with the safe injection sites. The Vancouver mayor would be on his side as well. Amen.

You missed the point. In reality, this is NOT what "these people' need. But that's why you're not in that 'business' of helping 'these people'. And drop the whole "anti-pot propaganda" here and continue that debate somewhere else, k? "Pot people"? lol lol lol That's a real good one! Can I use that one? I'll quote you, I promise. I love it! "The Pot People" can function just fine on pot, no matter how much, or how often they smoke it." As if, "Pot People" are some kind of certain breed, culture, whatever. Lots of people smoke pot for a variety of reasons, but I'm not going to debate this in a forum created to discuss drug tesing in schools. That's another discussion altogether......... But I'll address some of the problems that the student 'pot people' experience in our high schools: lack of motivation; absenteeism, tardiness, can't get up for school cuz they smoked too much last night, difficulty paying attention (related to lack of sleep related to smoking pot) just to name a few. There's more here if you want to look: Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Depression17, anxiety17, and personality disturbances18 have been associated with chronic marijuana use. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off19,20,25. Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared with their nonsmoking peers21,22,23,24. A study of 129 college students found that, among those who smoked the drug at least 27 of the 30 days prior to being surveyed, critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning were significantly impaired, even after the students had not taken the drug for at least 24 hours20. These "heavy" marijuana abusers had more trouble sustaining and shifting their attention and in registering, organizing, and using information than did the study participants who had abused marijuana no more than 3 of the previous 30 days. As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a reduced intellectual level all of the time. More recently, the same researchers showed that the ability of a group of long-term heavy marijuana abusers to recall words from a list remained impaired for a week after quitting, but returned to normal within 4 weeks25. Thus, some cognitive abilities may be restored in individuals who quit smoking marijuana, even after long-term heavy use. Workers who smoke marijuana are more likely than their coworkers to have problems on the job. Several studies associate workers' marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers' compensation claims, and job turnover. A study among postal workers found that employees who tested positive for marijuana on a pre-employment urine drug test had 55 percent more industrial accidents, 85 percent more injuries, and a 75-percent increase in absenteeism compared with those who tested negative for marijuana use26. In another study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including cognitive abilities, career status, social life, and physical and mental health27. Read "Studies and Research", but then again: we have the government ("No Pot People?") lying to us and trying to scare us..... how 'bout a medical perspective then? http://www.news-medical.net/?id=5175 Marijuana use has long been known to cause problems with learning and memory. Now, researchers at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University have identified the mechanism by which marijuana may affect activity in the hippocampus, the portion of the brain responsible for learning and memory. They reported their findings in the September 16 issue of the journal Neuron. (Medical Research News - Sept/04) So, that's in respect to drug testing in schools, rather than debating the merits of pot, legalization, drug wars. http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html Well, I suppose most of your experience is with pot, so you would know about that, the physical signs and smells, but it is usually their behaviour that is cause for questioning more than physical appearance. l you have to do is talk to them to confirm there's something amiss. If there are policies in place, then there must be a way to enforce the policies. And if they already "know" then why do we need the test? Confirmation. Kinda like telling the cops or the judge that you haven't been drinking before you got in the car, while you're slurring your words and smell like booze I guess- they need a breathalizer to confirm, correct? Unless the results are to be used as leverage to blackmail these kids into "treatment"? I dunno. Maybe it's just to ensure that their policies are adhered to. I don't even see anything wrong with that. But if they wanted to persue offering assistance on a personal matter, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. They would have the choice to leave the school if they wanted to continue their drug use and or abuse. Nope, it's too late for that now, the're already self-medicating then. They've already made that choice. btw "The pharma version of meth?" is showing your ignorance about the 'hard stuff' again. You might want to go do some research on that one. ADHD meds (not prescribed for ADD) are a far cry from the street version of 'speed', and work differently on the brain. So, you think that kids should have the right to come to school stoned, against policy, and not be held accountable by the administrators? They are not expelled at our school, they are sent to a three day 'treatment/education' program. I have to go back to the original article again to refresh on the issue with the testing. We got a little off-track there for a while. Me? I wouldn't deny anyone an education, but they may be denying themselves an education if they are unable to follow the school policy and rules. And, it's not all about THC, so get off the pot and expand your mind. Your own kids, smoking in their free time, it not what is up for discussion here. That's your personal paradigm that it's ok for your kids to smoke pot, and you would defend their right to do that and their right to keep that private. That's fine and dandy. However, if they register at a school that has a zero-tolerance policy on the use of street drugs, then they would be bound to that contract and required to be drug free. But your kids wouldn't be there, because they have the right to smoke pot, and that right is much more important than having to submit to drug tests in order to attend an educational institution that has such a stupid policy in the first place. "Irritating? That's a good thing. I'm very happy to hear that. It means you're listening."--I'm listening, but I've heard it all before, and having to repeatly debunk the same old lies over and over again is really becoming tiresome. DITTO! Like you say, I've heard it all before. You're stuck in your 'pot people' theory, and talking about criminalization again. If you are stuck thinking that promoting this model is harming kids, you are completely oblivious to the serious harm that some of our kids are in. But you can't seem to get past the "pot debate'. You might have to go back to that very hard question.....what do you do now, Dad? If your mind is open, you might gain some insight there.

Eyeball - your friend is far from alone.

I like that idea. And I'm a black and white thinker (minus the mentality of a grape!)

My motivation is being a part of the solution to keep our kids safe from the harmful effects of dangerous drugs. I have been a part of such solutions in my community since I moved here. It is my only motive - keeping our kids safe from the harmful effects of dangerous drugs. Is that altruism? Prefer? I'm unsure what you are asking. I believe that prescription drugs are necessary for some ailments, disorders, and disease and I leave that completely to the discretion of the patient and doctor to figure that out. THAT is none of my business. However, when kids are abusing prescription medications for a 'high', that comes under the "harmful effects of dangerous drugs" that kids are using and abusing. Again, I'm unsure of what you mean by this, with "save" in quotes. If you replaced that word with "help" or "assist", or 'mentor', or 'advise', or "teach", or "intervene" or 'advocate', or 'support', then the answer would be yes. But I have no illusions about personally 'saving' anyone. Saving families from the turmoil and resulting health problems for the children and parents by presenting information on resources, etc. , perhaps, but more like giving them the information and the opportunity to intervene as they would be required by law to do for any other health ailment or condition of the children in their care. Well, that is your problem then, isn't it? I am a rare cookie - anyone who knows me will tell you that! "Do gooder? I'll take that. I've built many playgrounds in my community, I've built recreation centers, advocated and delegated for better services for families, children, and youth, worked on harassment policies with the school district, held violence workshops, parenting classes, etc. etc. etc. The reason I find myself advocating for legislation for mandatory rehab for youth is through the stories from those I am advocating for. In the thread regarding "Drug Testing in Schools", you will find more information about that. Yes, I am one rare cookie who is determined not to complain, but to jump in and be a part of a solution. Not to 'meddle' in the lives of anyone, but to advocate and inform those who come to me through word of mouth. Even the public service sector workers are referring people to me - people they can not help because their "hands are tied", much like the police and the parents. Mud huts in African villages in next on the list. I have to retire first. In the meantime, my third world volunteer 'altruistic meddling' is done here online: (just in case you wanted to know how I contribute to 'altruistic meddling') I didn't start the webiste, I just contribute. www. Kiva.org

the admin are adults - the students are not

Why would you not just kill them all to be rid of them? That would save you the trouble of working so hard to make them realize what a waste of human life they are. Would you treat your own this way as well, or just those whom you know nothing about? Would you be interested in anything about their background to gain insight and understanding, or would you just want to ignore all that, smack them around a little, yell at them, call them losers and what would you expect to be the result of that? (besides your own satisfaction) PS Re" Post above - WHAT DO YOU DO NOW, DAD?

Our school gives the student the option. If you're not high, suck on this swab and proove it. I you're not willing, we think you're high, so bye bye. The student has the choice to leave, or proove his innocence. BTW, this doesn't happen with every student on the administrator's whim. They first notice that the student is high, and see through it. They have trained addiction counsellors. So, if a student is offered to proove his sobriety with a swab, he is already suspected of being high due to his behaviours at school. Most of the time, in fact, I believe in almost all cases, they are known drug users. Same vein as the thread on drug testing employees, the kids know that drugs are not allowed at the school and students must arrive without being stoned. They agree to this in signature upon registration at the school.

They being the ones who study these things, through the addicts themselves - the very people affected. FACT sheet, vs. THOUGHTS sheet. That, and the addicts who post on public forums, PLUS the experience of those who I am in close relationship with, is enough for me. Now, go find me a scientific study that has determined that pot is not addictive. There are none. But there are people saying they are physically addicted. Just as there is no compelling evidence that mandatory rehab can work well, there is also no compelling evidence that it does not. Hearing from one who is addicted first hand, that's enough proof for me, (especially along with medical confirmation from 'they') that it can be addictive for some people. As I say the others won't really know until they try.

Specially for you: Addiction: Marijuana can be both physically and psychologically addictive. Withdrawal symptoms include irritability, sweating, tremors, nausea, uncontrollable cravings, headaches, depression, and insomnia. http://www.preventionsource.org/pdf/marijuana.pdf and for a personal view from a pot addict: ""I don't want to hear the whole "its not physically addicting" thing. Maybe it wasn't at first but this is something I've done everyday for the last 8 years now. Its coming to the point where I need it morning, afternoon, and night. I need it because Im bored just every excuse you can think of. When I do try to quit I just end up smoking more. I also get massive headaches as well act extremely bitchy to everybody around me. I feel the withdrawl (though not as bad as other drugs) I'm getting too old for this, I'm always tired, I have anxiety problems, and I overeat on occasssion....perhaps some doesn't have to do w/ my habit but I don't want to be controlled anymore by this. As for you who will respond with only stronger drugs truely give you physical addiction my response to that is that I have done those stronger drugs (and liked them a lot). I believe I have overcome the other addictions but I really need help overcoming this one..."" So, he's off the hard stuff and addicted to pot? Interesting indeed. Headaches are physical. Being bitchy is a result of stopping an addiction. Happens to many when they stop drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, and even smoking pot. He's tired, from smoking the pot? (a little too relaxed, perhaps? lack of motivation perhaps?) He overeats (mj munchies perhaps?) He has anxiety (from the lack of pot to relax, perhaps?. The main thing is, "I don't want to e controlled anymore by this." That is an addiction per-se. The sense that it is a physical addiction came from the addict looking for help on a public forum. That, and knowing three people who are physically addicted, or phsycologically addicted for the physical numbing and relaxation, I know it is possible or ome people to become physically addicted to pot. And for the others - those who smoke it every day but are not addicted can quit anytime they want. They just don't want to. I suppose they wouldn't know if they even had a physical addiction until they stopped using. But they don't want to stop, because they like the effects.

There is no profit for community advocates. They are unpaid vounteers.

I have provided enough links to support the fact that pot can be physically addictive, even from the addicts themselves!. What more do you want? I consider a personal story credible. I also KNOW people who are physically addicted to pot, and they would tell you this themselves. But why bother, you know it isn't possible to be physically addicted, so it would be a lie anyways. My credible link is the people I know. Temper tantrum? I'm far too old for that. I was trying to agree with you, that what you hear in the media is a pile of crap. Paranoid propaganda, I say! It's all lies! You've seen how ridiculous that attempt was? Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. Do you know what a volunteer is? That' what I am. No money involved. Just a lot of research on unpaid time. But then again, I'm an ignorant liar who does't know what they're talking about, right? So why ask? See above. See above. No. I wouldn't have the stomach for that. Honestly, no it is not. My bread and butter comes from other places. See above: re" Volunteer. Children, parents, families, and entire communities can benefit from prohibition, but about profiting from it, I still don't understand that, other than those dealers who grow the stuff and sell it to others, some even sell it to kids. Again, I don't see how we could ever agree on this, as we see it from different points of view - me, a community advocate trying to help families who have drug addicted children, and you, a pot smoker who is very anti-prohibition. Benefits are different than monetary profit though, but I can understand how you became so jaded and defensive about your right to smoke and grow pot. Wrong again. You don't know anything about me, so why keep guessing? Is it entertaining for you to imagine how horrible of a person I am because I want to be a part of the solution for families with drug addicted kids? Have fun then. The only kids who have been placed in my care are my own. Trust me, there was no money made on them, in fact, they cost a fair amount to keep! That's about what it is around here, I understand. But I wouldn't know by personal experience. I don't have 'a church'. I don't get involved to that degree in any family. I am an advocate, not a foster parent, not a social worker, and not a drug counsellor, or counsellor of any kind for that matter. I am a volunteer advocate who makes no profit by what I am doing, but who makes improvements in my community for families, parents, children, and seniors. Can you believe there is actually people out there who will do these things only for their contribution to society and for no pay? Perhaps that is inconceivable to you, but I have lived my years making contributions in any way I am able. I work for the intrinsic reward - not for cash. Well, as I've explained previously on many occasions, I have no financial reasons for my crusade and it is not hateful, in fact, the opposite. That's you, or that's what you say. And the old mantra, "I could quit if I wanted to, but I don't want to" is questionable. It's just words. So, while you have no reason to stop drinking coffee or smoking pot, that is your perrogative, your right, your decision to make. But, I'll bet dollars to do-nuts that you would feel some physical effect if you stopped drinking coffee suddenly, depending on how many cups a day you are used to. Headaches are a big one for many people when caffein is abruptly eliminated. And, we don't always see or feel the long-term negative effects of these things in the short term daily use of them. Recently, a study was released about pregnant women drinking coffee. They have discovered that even in small amounts, the caffein crosses the bloodstream and enters the placenta, causing harm to the fetus. We didn't know that before. Now that we know this, women can take that into account when they become pregnant, and with all the informaiton, they can make their own informed decision. No. Not at all. Absolutely not. Where did you get this idea that I want to see kids in jail? Drug addiction is a medical condition that requires medical attention - I do not view a youth's drug addiction in itself a criminal issue whatsoever. It is a medical issue.

Ahem. West Vancouver Police?

In your world, I believe this to be true. I do not believe it is true for everyone. In fact, I know it isn't! (See my post above)

The point is not moot, in fact, this is the very point. There are no guarantees, like you say, whether you drink tea, booze, or smoke pot. However, the more opposed to any certain substance a parent is, the less likely the child will use it. (Generality by small study). Makes sense though. But it isn't a moot point, it's the very point worth consideration - regardless of what kind of parent you are, your kids are subjected to peer pressure, and depending on their own level of self-esteem, emotional intelligence, and resillience, they will make good and bad decisions. Who is we? None of that is in our drug education material at all. We are clear to begin with letting kids and parents know the reasons why people take drugs, educate them on the kids of drugs (including Rx) and they are warned about the harmfull effects of all drugs to the degree that the research has shown. We have changed in the past 10 or so years from telling kids that all drugs are bad, to explaining the benefits and drawbacks of all drugs. The hard drugs like crack cocaine and crystal meth provide many more dangers than benefits, which is the message we send. No one here has said that pot and cm are equally dangerous, and I've never heard that from anyone anywhere in any discussions on drugs. Society is always evolving through lessons learned in life. Your last statement there is the exact reason that the drug education programs have changed to recognise the fact that people often take drugs because it 'makes them feel good'. We balance that information by providing information about the harms they also present. Story, what story? I presented information, not a story. The source of that information was: Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, Canadian Profile, 1999. McCreary Centre Society, Healthy Connections: Listening to BC Youth, 1999. Alberta Alcohol and Drug Abuse Commission, Quick Facts About Alcohol, Other Drugs, and Gambling, 1999. National Institute on Drug Abuse, Infofax: Marijuana, 2001. Pacula, R.L. et al, Marijuana and Youth, 2000. . Again, that would depend on the person's state prior to smoking, and the affects on that person. Works the opposite here. It increases libido for some people. Years back, some of my girlfriends got quite 'horny' (their words) when the smoked pot. So, while that may be the case for you, it's like saying pot is not addictive to someone who is addicted to pot. Not the case here. Alcohol makes me sleepy, and a little Gin may work towards removing the panties, but if you have too much, your're just puking over the edge of the bed all over your nice new sexy negligee! Again, I must disagree, as would my friend who almost seriously died laughing while stoned. (just kidding) Granted, your mind remains alitte more clear on pot if you don't mix it with alcohol, but they both lower the inhibitions of most of the smokers I know. Much more likely they would 'lose it' with alchohol than on pot, for sure. But again that is not the purpose for discussion here to compare the perils of alcohol and marijuana. It is about drug testing in schools, the pros and cons and people's opinions and views about that issue. Somehow, we keep getting siderailed into discussions like this. Would you please then realize that the purpose of this thread is to discuss drug testing in schools? And that it is not about adult use of illicit drugs or alcohol, it is about addicted children and children using dangerous drugs. And please realize that I do have my own personal experience with smoking pot, so I do know of it's affects on myself, and the others around me. I am not ignorant about these things, and I have my own personal experiences to make my own opinions. I am a grown adult responsible for and accountable to my own actions. But, as a parent, I am also responsible for my minor children in my care. So, I don't really need people to tell me what a pot high is like. I know that from personal experience. Now, if you wish to enlighten me on what the high is like for you on crack cocaine or crystal meth, I'd be more than willing to listen to your experience with that, along with what your experience with pot has been. But this isn't the place for that information imo. And that is the difference between a 'good' parent and a 'responsible' parent. How old will your son be when you finally roll one up a nice one smoke his first 'fatty' with him?

OK, since there is no outright disrespect and distain for me in this post, I will answer you. I have absolutely no need to explain anything to you whatsoever, for my own benefit, as I am a "shitty excuse for a human", which leaves me a little bewildered on why you are still replying to me. Now that I've spent the time to learn how to use the quotes, I need alittle practice. Personally I don't care whatsoever what you believe about me. You don't know me at all, so you are not in a position to make any judgements about me here. But, carry on if you wish, it's a free world, and I don't have to read your posts. Your explanation of maybe is false. There are no drug problems in my immediate family. I have a nephew on crack cocaine, and an adult brother who has gone through rehab three times to get off crack. They are both adults, and would be completely unaffected by this legislation, as well as any drug testing in schools. My children are both adults, and doing fine, thanks. I am basically a democratic parent, vs. an authoritarian parent. I have taught those courses as well. I am a responsible parent, vs a 'good' parent. I am not oppresed, neither am I acting out rebelliously. I am not a religious fanatic. I do not attend church. Now you know a little more about me. I have absolutely no idea how I could possibly be making money from this rebellious acting out, but if you know, perhaps you could share with us here - I could use at least some coverage for my gas and mileage to meetings. But, as it is, I'm willing to pay that bill myself, as well as all other expenses involved. Not a problem for me, which is another reason I am in a good position to be 'acting out rebelliously'. I'm little like Rosa Parks in that when I see a problem with a law, or a community situation, I make efforts to change it. I am more of a 'doer' than a 'talker'. Ok, again your ignorance is showing. Do you not watch the news? Of course you do, but you receive it from a different paradigm. "Those cops wouldn't be dead if they just made the damn stuff legal!" as opposed to "Those cops wouldn't be dead if those guys didn't break the laws and set up a grow up on their property." The story can be completely different, depending on your own paradigm. Your paradigm will not be changing and neither will mine, so we will always see things differently. Now, when you throw a little respect into the mix of conversation, we can learn from each other. But, when you throw out disrespect and distain, it is more difficult to get your point across to those you disrespect. From your paradigm, large grow ops would cease and decist if it were legal to grow it because everyone would grow their own. Well (surprise surprise), I do know what is involved in growing pot. I know people who grow it. From my paradigm, knowing what is involved to grow the good stuff, the attention required, and the timing is crucial, not everyone will be growing their own. I see it more as everyone will be growing it, and no one will buy the stuff the government is providing due to the taxes associated with the sales. Therefore, I think if it were to become legal, the best we could do would be legal possession, as opposed to a legal home grow up. The danger in growing pot over other houseplants is mainly the lighting required to get a good indoor crop. Now that it is legal to report hydro theft and overuse, more grow ops are being discovered. If it were legal, and grown outdoors only, the growing season in BC would be very very short! lolI'm afraid from my paradigm, the large grow ops would expand if it became legal to grow it. Cops don't warn about the dangers of growing orchids in your basement? That must be because there is not the danger presented on the same level a the grow ops. Yep I've heard it all before, in fact that is what my partner thought, until we wound up going the wrong way down a two lane highway. He was lovin' the music, though. That in itself can cause problems for other drivers on the road. Can also cause accidents, driving that carefully! . Now, how on earth would you know that about me? More assumptions. I concur with that. As a novice, I felt no effect at all. Trust me, or don't. I know full well the effects of both from personal experience. It's not about the 'urge' to drive the car, it's more about where you have to be by when, and thinking your ok to drive there. So, the lack of paranoia with experienced users is of much more concern on the highways than those paranoid inexperienced users. Absolutely agree. You're talking about two separate issues here though, drug education, and drug addiction. There are no guarantees when raising your kids; that I know for sure. Hmm, perhaps you may be more of an authoritarian parent than you think I am. My kids are generally very good respectful kids. They don't want to dissappoint me or hurt me, but at times they do. They are of the humanoid type. One in particular has been in lots of trouble as a young teen. If you ask my kids, they would say they have always been treated with the utmost respect. Now, if I did have a teen who went off the rails on illicit drugs, I would have enough respect for them to step in and intervene, even against their drug induced will, if they were in my care. Trouble is, there is no legal avenue to do this, and that is what I'm working towards. So, just so we are clear - my post about drug testing in schools was to initiate some discussion about the pros and cons of that issue. And, for perfect clarity, adults using drugs have no place in this discussion - it is about kids addicted to harmful drugs. All other comments made by me here were to address those of op's. This sounds very much like our house, and the people in it. Right down to the decisions your dd has made. She's a smart gal, much like my son. You will likely, like we are, remain an important mentor in your kids life, even after they leave the nest. It's good to have a good relationship with your kids, because if you don't, you don't have any influence at all. We not only try, we make a point of it in this house. We all have a lot of respect for each other. Consider this: Say, against all odds, your 5 year old reaches the age of 14. She goes to a party, and someone convinces her to take some illicit drug. She knows better, and feels uncomfortable, but her best friend is at the party, convincing your dd to just try this - it feels so good. She doesn't return home, you go looking for your sweet, intelligent, 14 yo daughter, and get police to help you find her. It takes four days to locate your daughter. She is found in a house full of adult men, who are using her for drug running. The police notify you that they have found her, and that they believe she is prostituting to pay for her drugs. They tell you that there is nothing they can do and their hands are tied - she is 14 and she can make the choice to stay there with these men. (Not something she would ever normally do, but now, she is under the influence of some nasty hard drugs - you don't even know what drugs at this point, so when you talk to her, you are not talking to the daughter who left the house, you are talking to the drugs. All you know is that police tell you she doesn't want to return home. She has quit attending school of course, and she has 'chosen' this lifestyle, according to the police. What does the father in you do now? I would love to know how you would handle such a situation, without telling us that your dd is too smart for that to happen, or loves you too much, or doesn't want to dissapoint you. Consider that for some reason, she has turned rebellious, and is acting out in this way. Say she tells you that pot is just lame, she wants the hard stuff. Waddaya do now, Dad?

More propaganda for those interested: http://www.preventionsource.org/pdf/marijuana.pdf Safety: Marijuana’s short-term effects on physical coordination include difficulty judging distances and delayed reaction to sights and sounds. It can impair a person’s ability to drive, operate machinery or fly a plane. Impairment can also link with other risky behaviours such as having unprotected sex. When used together with other drugs like alcohol, greater impairment occurs and the risk of accidents is greatly increased. Apparently, your daughters are not so safe under the influence of marijuana as far as having unprotected sex. It makes you relax, right? Perhaps she knows what she's doing, but it feels good, even better than when drunk!

You are speaking of physician supervised pharmeceuticals? In my conversations with these kids, they straight out said the reason they call pot 'chron' is because it is a chronic addiction for them. Drama? Perhaps. But it's the way they express it themselves. I won't re-post but in the poll about legislation in provincial politics forum, there are links you can look at. Here's one just for you striaight from the 'addict's blog: http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/front...21121607AAjHWAV I'll read back to see if you have stated why. This is what I am looking for in these opinions and responses - the reasoning behind the opinions. . Perhaps the youth smoking rates are finally becoming lower. But, stores still sell smokes to underaged kids, and some stores actually promote these flavoured cigarellos to get the kids started. The integrety of the vendors is always in question. Some are willing to risk their business license to make money off the kids buying smokes. Some vendors also have drug paraphernalia for sale right on the front counter as well. There is no law against that, but some cities are making bylaws to address that issue. I think what I meant was that "it would be more readily available to kids if it were legal, (just like cigarettes and alcohol) and it would be more accessible in homes if parents are less discreet due to it being legal. The kids in my community tell me the reason they smoke it from a water bong is that they are quite aware of the harm caused by smoking the paper of the joint. Other harms caused for kids on dope is lack of motivation, loss of education, difficulty waking up in the morning for work or school, and depression. Let me know if you would like links to that information. Interesting. Alcohol is often considered the gateway drug. Others consider smoking the gateway drug. The latest mantra is that "any drug that you try first is your gateway drug". Could be coffee. Could be cigarettes, Could be crystal meth, like a 17 yo girl in our community who claims that CM was her gateway drug. She never smoked, or drank alcohol. She was 13 when she became addicted. [/color] If they don't get this message at home, they certainly get it in the public schools and through the media. I agree. (And yes, if you have a closer look you will find posts that advocate for making all drugs legal) So while I work on legislation for parents to get their kids legally assessed for drug addiction, detox and treatment, you guys can lobby for legislation to make alcohol illegal. Good luck with that one! Absolutely. I have no disagreement with that. I am not discussing the legalizing or criminalization of drugs. I am looking for discussion about drug testing in schools, but we've sidetracked that issue to defend the use of 'soft drugs', and the perils of the 'legal drugs'. Thanks for your reply, which answers the question. To further understand your point, can you share some of the ideas you have where school admin could use the information from a student's positive drug test for corrupt reasons? What would those reasons be? Finally figured out the quote boxes. You're welcome

You are so wrong about that.

Thanks for your insight. I posted this link for discussions around testing kids in school for drug use. Whenever a mj activist enters the discussions, that is what the discussions turn to arguing the merits of pot over alcohol, and pot is not legal but alcohol is. They often become quite agitated by those who are trying to protect children and youth from the harmful effects of drugs, and resort to insulting of other peoplewho do not completely agree with them. It's a self-defense mechanism that seems to kick in on any discussions like these. I have no personal interest regarding drugs, other than to keep kids away from them, until their brains have developed, and they are of adult age. That's it. No other agenda here. Nothing towards making adult pot smokers into criminals whatsoever. Just to make that clear for y'all. It is about the kids for me.

Pot can be addictive, both phsiologically and psychologically. Teens have told me they are addicted, hence their pet name 'chron'. I personally know people who are addicted in both those ways. To say that alcohol causes more broken families than all the other vices combined is true, I believe. But that is changing, and crack cocaine, crystal meth, and heroine are factors nowadays as well. So, alcohol is the legal drug. Marijuana causes less harm than alcohol. Well, it would if it were legal, right? The fact that it is illegal is causing harm to people now. I have no problem with grown adults making their own decisions. When it comes to the kids (not as invalid as you think) I believe that parents who are held accountable and responsible for them have a role to play in keeping them away from the harmful effects of drugs, and when they know there is an addiction problem, they need to step in. I'm not talking about a kid smoking pot on the weekends. I'm talking about kids who are addicted to serious drugs, who started out smoking pot. Political talk about drugs always gets turned away from the really bad drugs back to the pot by the pot users. We are talking about drugs here, illegal drugs, not just marijuana. But the arguements are often turned around to take the focus off the more harmfull drugs, to compare mj with alcohol. Happens all the time. Kids in school do not do well on drugs. This is proven, and anyone who takes these drugs would know. Even pot interferes with a kids education when he's stoned at school. We are still talking about drug testing in schools, right?

I have absolutely nothing else to say to you. :angry: