Adel

More scientific fact from the Holy Quran... ==================== The formation of rain... ==================== The formation of rain takes place in three stages. First, the "raw material" of rain rises up into the air with the wind. Later, clouds are formed, and finally raindrops appear. Now read this verse that was revealed more than 1400 years ago [it is God Who sends the winds which stir up clouds which He spreads about the sky however He wills. He forms them into dark clumps and you see the rain come pouring out from the middle of them. When He makes it fall on those of His slaves He wills, they rejoice] (The Qur'an, 30:48) [Have you not seen how God drives along the clouds, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it? And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) with cold hail in them, striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills. The brightness of His lightning almost blinds the sight.] (The Qur'an, 24:43)

That is true.. Actually that is the idea behind sending all that number of prophets all over the human history… The believers followed their prophet’s instructions during the course of the prophet’s life and for a short period of time after. Then lots of people would be born not seeing the prophet or hearing from him and not enthusiastically follow his instructions for a while. Lastly people will go back to their own enjoyment and change in the religion itself… A few hundreds years after the prophet, almost main elements of the message would have been modified and God would send another prophet who will confirm his ancestor prophet message and come with some new instructions that fit the development of life… That is also true… God sent his messengers with a message that anwers the main questions of life and some guides…. As everything based on justice, whatever anyone does will see the suitable reward….

Who on earth said that life began 6,000 years ago… Saying that all religious texts are very human and are susceptible to errors and mistakes is unaccepted exaggeration…. Holy Quran is clearly the same book word by word since prophet Mohammed died … Hundreds or millions of people memorized it word by word and during any prayer if the person leading the prayer makes a mistake even in one word or even in the grammar, everyone behind him – even kids of 10 years old – would correct him…

I completely agree… If I said believers obey God because they are afraid of Him only I am completely mistaken… If you know how much we love God and how much believer even cry at night when thinking about him and when contemplating about Him and His blessings on the whole universe, you would not have said that… They cannot wait to meet their beloved God….

Holy Quran – the holy books of Islam – is a holy book that kept memorized word by word and letter by letter… Prophet Mohammed’s sayings called ‘Sonnah’ are completely different and not considered a message from God. Holy Quran is the message revealed by God to the prophet verse by verse. It is well know that prophet Mohammed was illiterate and that is a miracle by itself to convey that miraculous holy book without even be able to read and write…. For ancient writings, even people from all over the world 1400 years ago did not know what I have mentioned here about scientific facts… In summary so far I have mentions verses that tell people that : 1- The heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before God clove them asunder [big bang] 2- God has made from water every living thing. 3- God created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating (swimming) 4- Universe is expanding 5- God created Mountains as pegs [so clench different plates of the earth together do not move] 6- Mountains movement Well so far, what kind of scientific knowledge was available more than 1400 years ago that let an illiterate man tell people that? Here I am not talking about Jesus… I want some answers about those facts… Is it possible that any human being could know that at the time…?

Let me tell you that your attitude is the best…I really admire your way of thinking and your justice… You are completely free and has the absolute right to doubt and investigate everything until you reach truth Thanks again for this attitude But do you recognize, Adel, that reaching the truth might be in conflict with what you believe? I will absoultely accept fact whatsoever. Just when it is proved to be fact...

More scientific facts about mountains... ============================ With extensions that mountains extend out towards under the ground as well as over the ground, they clench different plates of the earth together like a peg. The Earth's crust consists of plates that are in constant motion. This clenching property of mountains prevents shocks to a great extent, by fixing the earth's crust, which has a very movable structure. It is well known that with extensions that mountains extend out towards under the ground as well as over the ground, they clench different plates of the earth together like a peg… Now read this verse that came more than 1400 years ago... [God placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them] (The Qur'an, 21:31) Mountains movement [that imply earth movement also] [You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds] (The Qur'an, 27:88)

Let me tell you that your attitude is the best…I really admire your way of thinking and your justice… You are completely free and has the absolute right to doubt and investigate everything until you reach truth Thanks again for this attitude

I think this is jumping to conclusion without a real background Islamic text is just one holy book called Al Quran [meaning Reading]… it is only one, and it is in Arabic, but you may find it translated in other languages. But the original is just one… This is not the point. The point is to answer my questions…. They, who deny the existence of God, surely they consider prophet as liars… So all prophets came with many miracles that left people with no choice but believe… but the last message from God came when humans were closely reaching their mature stage. That is why prophet Mohammed’s main miracle was a book… full of verses inviting people to acquire knowledge and explore the whole universe… Another scientific fact.. =================== The function of mountains =================== [God placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them] (The Qur'an, 21:31) You can easily notice that the verse stated that mountains have the function of preventing shocks in the Earth. This fact was not known by anyone at the time the Qur'an was revealed. It was in fact brought to light only recently as a result of the findings of modern geology.

I have not received any answer… Nobody told me how Prophet Mohammed came up with those facts if he was not a prophet sent by the creator of this universe... How Prophet Mohammed did know - more than 1400 years ago-: 1- That the whole universe was one part and them separated… 2- Every living being was created from water One more... We now know that the universe is expanding... well, read the verse from the holy Quran [i created the heaven with great might, and I am expanding it...] [Chapter 51, verse 47]... Sure when you deny the creator, you consider this forum about politics, but when you faced with these striking verses, you start to say this is not religious forum... Simply because you have no answer... Please I want responsible answers...

In my previous post my friend Figleaf said that [Religion thrives on ignorance. Without ignorance religion would be a footnote, a fad that people sometimes indulge] and he challenged me to name even ONE fact supports religion… Well I will prove here that some people – called Prophets – delivered messages from the creator… Those holy books have evidences that science support them … Without waisting time I will quote some verses here from one of the holy books - The Holy Quran - and would love to hear you replies…. --------------------- Creation of the universe…the Big Bang… ------------------- Loot at these verse that illiterate man delivered more than 1400 years ago.. [Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?] [Chapter 21 verse 30 ] [And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating (swimming)] [Chapter 21 verse 33] --------------------- Living being creation ------------------- [Allah has created every moving (living) creature from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills. Verily! Allah is Able to do all things] [Chapter 24 – Verse 45] There are many more…

I am sorry again to hear this language… You know what I don’t like most: blindly following some opinion and accept it as a fact, while never pay attention to check references and loot at names of people and their scientific weighs who oppose it…. I respect you ideological choice and your strong defense, but, excuse me, just because you studied that as a fact, does not mean that other very respected scientist do not accept it… How many scientific theories have been taught for people for decades and many scientific papers and researches have been accepted them as facts.. and then science discovered that they were not accurate or correct? And again you don’t have to reply to my posts… but it is not your right to prevent people from expressing themselves….

It is not supported by science at all and it is arguable to say the best… Evolutionists have always failed to give any fossil that holds transitional forms. When talking about Humans, they mentioned some fossils that most scientists said they are either for Human races as we know now or Australopithecines. No transitional forms have ever been found. As I mentioned in another post they found a fossil Spain in 1995 that revealed the face of an 11-year-old boy who looked entirely like modern man. That boy died 800,000 years ago.. Unfortunately every time I tried to quote any fact that scientists stated, guys in this form did not like it as it was clearly undermining their thoughts… Now your just lieing, and being sensational, you are making claims that are not true and do not hold water. BTW Self interest is not inherrently a bad thing, maybe you and Karl Marx should stop hanging out. Well, I have supported all my points with quotes. And guess what, 99% of those quotes were from ardent evolutionists who had to confess when faced by facts… Please go back to the references I mentioned and pages I stated and tell me if they were just personal … It is you guys and your theory that helped Karl Marx so much… Marx and Engels embraced Darwin's The Origin of Species as soon as it came out. They were amazed at its “dialectical materialist” attitude. The correspondence between Marx and Engels showed that they saw Darwin's theory as "containing the basis in natural history for communism". In his book [The Dialectics of Nature], which he wrote under the influence of Darwin, Engels was full of praise for Darwin, and tried to make his own contribution to the theory in the chapter "The Part Played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man".

It is not supported by science at all and it is arguable to say the best… Evolutionists have always failed to give any fossil that holds transitional forms. When talking about Humans, they mentioned some fossils that most scientists said they are either for Human races as we know now or Australopithecines. No transitional forms have ever been found. As I mentioned in another post they found a fossil Spain in 1995 that revealed the face of an 11-year-old boy who looked entirely like modern man. That boy died 800,000 years ago.. Unfortunately every time I tried to quote any fact that scientists stated, guys in this form did not like it as it was clearly undermining their thoughts…

First, what do you even mean by 'responsibilty towards our actions'? And why does it depend on where we come from? If you mean what are good ethics, then where we came from seems not quite the point. Whoa nelly. That's quite a package. How about we just stick to 'no creator'. Out of self-interest. In a good person that self-interest includes not having to see him or herself as a person who harms others. Now there is one of the biggest problems of talking with religious people. Y'all have this tendency to jump from one thing to another without connecting the dots. How would a creator necessarily ensure no-one escaped from their evil actions? To answer this question you will go off into a whole architecture of theology that describes the creator you imagine and his infrastructure of enforcement and punishment. Once examined, this infrastructure will prove absurd and probably morally insupportable. In any event, whether 'God' is socially useful or not is not really any help in deciding whether It really exists or what It wants. It is NO guarantee at all! Believers throughout history have had crime and violence in their communities. Evolution is just one of the lines of thought that served to undermine archaic superstitious religious beliefs; most of them had to do with proving the claims of religion were at odds with facts or logic or both. Generally speaking, this process did not involve anyone proposing that it's AOK for the strong to harm the weak. WRT evolution in particular, it describes survival of the fittest, but it doesn't make any moral case for it. So, you don't believe in the Bible? Self-interest is the very single thing that makes people hurt each other. Self-interest (containing selfness at the center of it) makes people cheat to achieve their goals, kidnap and rape to fulfill desires not possible otherwise, lie to hide their weaknesses, kill to hide their secrets, ….. Resources in life are not endless, and depending only on self-interest will inevitablely lead people take all means to achieve their goals regardless of its morality… It is religion that undermines completely all other silly thoughts and assumptions about the universe… It is religion that told people, thousands of years ago, the answers for the big questions of life while science – as we know now – had to wait thousands of years to say anything… It is religion that OREDRS people to learn and explore the universe… It is religion that considered ignorance a sin… All facts that science confirmed just support religion… other thoughts that contradict it are necessarily just theories or assumptions… When the creator tells anything about His universe, who will know best: He or very ignorant and limited creatures… It is pity that people when using their minds, do not stop and think for a second that their minds - as any other sense – are limited…. I am sure when you will know what God said in his holy books, you will be very surprised….