Vercingetorix

Libertarian. I read up on two of the four (as I knew what the other three were about) and I just can't bring myself to support the whole one-country-one-language deal. This is a place that is supposed to be about you doing what you want to unless you are infringing on another person's rights, and the right to understand is as much a right as the right to not be offended is.

Derek...you are making one big mistake with your posts. You are saying that the Bible's existence proves that it is correct. I could say the same about the Quran, the Rg Veda, The Cat in the Hat, or just about any book I wished.

Hillary Clinton is the worst possible person to be in charge of any country. Indeed, I think the world would be better off if she never existed...I personally believe that if Christianity is true, she must be the antichrist. I have no idea who would be better; I have libertarian persuasions, so make your ideas of who I would vote for there. And if I had been old enough for the 2000 election, I would have voted for Alan Keyes. I just reviewed the list and voted for Ron Paul, btw.

As long as we are getting into this kind of argument, I would like to see proof.

OK...I could have sworn Josephus was Jewish. But he calls Jesus the Messiah, which would have made him a Christian. Does you see something VERY wrong here? This is also the ONLY mention of Jesus in the whole book, IIRC. I was being proselytized by some friends one night, and they pulled out this book as proof, and showed that this was the only mention of Jesus in the whole book. Bad idea...

Then check it. IIRC, it DOES have some errors in it, but is generally accurate factually.

Wrong. Though I am against government-supported censorship in all forms, you must realize that these are privately owned companies and the installation of such software is decided by the purchaser. And you might want to check the spelling on your link. I'm afraid to click on it, but the spellings don't match up.

This is exactly what I was hoping for: a very good debate. Do you have proof outside the Bible and Josephus (whose accounts are generally known to have been forged due to the anachronistic idioms used) that says he does? I do not mean the one which speaks of Christus; that says their leader, living at the time, went by Christus. Look at the date of that account. Once again, you only use information from the bible to back up your point, thus proving nothing. No...whoever INVENTED Jesus had more influence...and besides, even if you are right you are wrong...I would say Abe had far more influence; you know, he kind of was father to all three major western religions today. They both can be disproven, I am sure. However, you do not have access to any contemporary outside works proving his existence that have not been proven to have been forged. Do you know why a lot of pagan rulers of the time converted? Do you? The Roman army, when its had become Christian, were also nearing the end of their height of power. While they were this powerful, they were mostly conquering the Germanic barbarians (discounting Verus's screwup, but that was >300 years before the time period I speak of) whenever they had a chance. These barbarians, being extremely superstitious (a lot of these superstitions carry over today...what do you think tomorrow, Samhain, is?), decided that the Christian God must be more powerful if the Romans were conquering their forces. This was they heyday of missionaries, when they were converting masses of barbarians. IIRC, Atilla had to convert before he was allowed to marry the sister of the Emperor (which I don't think happened in the end...) Well, there you go. The story of the conversion of great masses of Europe after Constantine's legalization of the religion. If you want to know why people converted before, all you have to ask is: why do people do illegal things today? These are not the same people, and you must remember that most of these were also started by Christians. Hitler was NOT a secular humanist...IIRC, he was a Protestant of some sort. I agree there is a great amount of opinion mixed with fact in the article; however, there is also a good amount of fact that can be backed up, as well.

Neal F., do you have any of that documented in anything other than the bible? The articles I provided links to make that a source not worth citing--it proves nothing. And appeals to emotion, as you made, do not prove anything.

The passage in Josephus was obviously added later by the church--the idioms used in the writing, IIRC are not those of the 1st century AD. Go to the site and READ before responding, please. A lot of the "proof" used is obvious forgeries.

Well, I had this up earlier, but that conflict over its deletion has been resolved, and I will not eat up so much bandwidth with this one. at http://www.jesuswasaterrorist.com/did_jesu...really_live.htm, you will find an explanation of how there is no real proof of the existence of this certain unperson came to be (or not), and he is proven to not have proof for his existence here by the dating of books and an explanation of how he was not mentioned in any contemporary literature. His existence is explained, as well as who he is really based off, in the 9-part series on Apollonius the Nazarene. I must warn you, however, that it is a really long read--when I read this a while ago, I printed ALL of it off and read it before I went to sleep for two days. Even if you are Christian, it is worth reading, and the site also attacks the other religions in the "big three." Well, to make this thread into a debate, I will say that I basically agree with what the site has to say. If you wish to contest what is in here, this is the thread for it. Enjoy!

Honestly, why should they? The "common man" does nothing for them except buy their products. All they must do is make the "common man" buy the products. Why should they? See above. Hey, that's one of the DUMBEST things I have ever read. You obviously have no knowledge of the history of the USSR and their 5 year plans. You mean if the government had STOLEN half of his profits. He earns them fairly...I don't see why he must have them wrested from his hands as you advocate.

I'm not even going to deal with cknykid. Black Dog, however: No, not really. If you want to know who was there first, go do archaeological digs in Israel. And deciding that there is a beginning only in recent history is a fallacy. Excuse me, the Palestinians were called Arabs until the 1960s. The neighbors of Israel throw these "pieces" (or tokens, because that is all they see them as) into refugee camps for the sole purpose of the political aspect of their war. Oh yeah, they started it, even though you could see the arab armies building up on the borders. Yeah, they started it; it doesn't matter that thee was going to be an invasion really soon. Why is illegal? Because those racists in the UN say it is? The more extremist elements are far more populous than any "centrist" elements of the resistance to Israel. Ever read Exodus by Leon Uris? He describes what they did. The current occupants of the region had not exactly done anything to fix the desertification. OK, I see this phrase a lot now in your posts. Define it so I can break your argument.

You actually think the UN will ever listen to Israel? Israel is one of the better friends of the United States, and the UN will gladly pass up an opportunity to call attention to human rights abuses in favor of censuring the United States for spending another dollar on military budget instead of sending it to countries run by idiots, such as Zimbabwe.