MiddleMan

I'm not pointing a finger at CP for being more expensive. As already mentioned, the more expensive part applies to pretty much everything in Canada. Has been that way, probably always will be that way, and our economy continues as usual. What I'm doing is pointing out a problem that I believe CP (or the gov't) needs to take a more serious look at. A problem that is (according to many already) damaging an emerging market in Canada - ecommerce. That problem is that US online retailers are making a joke out of Canadian online retailers without even having to try to! While Canadian ecommerce owners are jumping through hoops trying to figure out how to lower shipping costs, shoppers continue to walk away from them feeling like they're being gouged by shipping costs. People accept that things are more expensive in Canada, but in this case it's to such an extreme that too many Canadians are not accepting, simply going elsewhere. So the question still remains, how can the US ship to Canada for so cheap? Somebody has to pay to deliver that USPS parcel past the Canadian border! Well, I found a nice article to help explain this: I Mailed a Letter to Paris … The answer (at least partially) I guess is the Universal Postal Union (UPU). They're in charge of how much countries reimburse each other for the cost of delivering each others mail. Apparently this typically takes place once a quarter. So that $6 to ship a parcel from LA to Yellowknife DOES also go towards paying CP. A small portion of it is added to a 'change' bin which is later handed over to CP at the end of the quarter. Well, looks to me like the UPU needs to review the cost of shipping in Canada because the US basically has us doing volunteer work for them at the current rates! Time to pen out that letter to the MP, at least that won't cost me anything to ship... Don't know the actual answer but the UPU can also help here. Apparently a country that delivers enough late parcels will be punished by having part of their quarterly fund deducted. I wonder if Canada has ever been 'punished'?

Just found out that all these stories of Canadian E-commerce businesses moving shipments to the US (even to ship back to Canada) are missing one important fact. Any shipment back to Canada worth over $20 is subject to a $8.50 handling fee. Sucks to be on the receiving end if you're not aware of this, but to me this gives Canadian ecommerce stores a fighting chance. People slapped with that fee will think twice about buying from the states again. Now I wonder, are all these Canadian companies shipping merchandise back into Canada simply declaring everything they ship as under $20. I hope it's not that they just don't care about the customer getting hit with additional handling fees, as long as their shipment costs are less! Also, apparently, not all shipments worth over $20 are checked. I wonder how often that happens? Well, I guess that means the big disadvantage for Canadian ecommerce is narrowed down into the category of small parcel and under $20 in value. In this case, it's still a no-brain'er to shop in the US if you want to save money. The question that remains is: who pays Canada Post to deliver all these small USPS packages (that cost $5 to ship) once they cross customs? Even the fee for those that are worth over $20 is still just a border handling fee, none of which goes towards the cost of shipping. The $5 can't possibly cover both US and Canadian delivery costs because even if that entire amount went to Canada Post, it wouldn't be enough to cover the price of any CP service. Is our tax money helping Canada Post ship international packages???

Yes, but in the past taking advantage of these significantly cheaper prices (say 20% or 30% cheaper) also took significant effort. Enough so that it was (and still is) only common on big ticket items (like a car) where 20 or 30 percent translated to a lot of money. And, although common with these big ticket items, not common enough to impact the economy. ie. Car dealers are not closing shop due to cheaper cars in the US. Now, however, it's all too convenient to buy, for example, that iPhone case from the US instead of Canada because shipping from the US is (no, not 20 or 30 % cheaper) half the price!!! This is so much an issue that it IS impacting Canadian e-commerce. Online retailers are commonly, [A] closing shop because high shipping costs don't let them compete with US retailers, or driving to the US to ship products TO Canada. There are even companies starting in Canada just to target this issue, claiming that they'll ship what you give them using USPS (basically just drive your package across the border for you). E-commerce is a growing business in Canada. Unless we want to see it all move elsewhere (like manufacturing and many other things already have), I'm sure Canada Post can do at least a little better than double the price of their neighbouring competitor. People are willing to pay a little more for faster (domestic) shipping, but double the price is not a little, nor 20%, no 30% more.

FYI. The story continues... Even the globe and mail has written about this. - Globe & Mail: Cheapest shipping route across Canada? Try the U.S. - Complaints from eBay shop owners: eBay Workshop with Canada Post - Financial Post: This joke's on us: Did you hear the one about the profit-maximizing postal monopoly whose high prices crippled a nation's e-commerce infrastructure? - Bogus CP response to above article: Letter to the editor of the Financial Post - FYI: Canadian Postal Rates

For those who fall under "old dogs can't learn new tricks" then yeah, if you're used to doing business in the (so-called) real world that's where you'll stay. But a quick look at statistic Canada will show internet retail growing at a very high rate for several years now. You think all the major Canadian stores (Canadian Tire, Future Shop, etc...) are putting up online stores cause they think it's fun? Anyhow, I'm still wondering how USPS can ship to Canada for so cheap. Think I'll just email Canada Post.

Checked some numbers online. Now, for a small parcel, how can USPS charge just $5.60 from LA to Toronto (just 20 cents more than LA to NY) while paying CP to ship the same parcel within Toronto would cost $7??? Even if USPS gets the parcel to the Toronto airport to hand it over to CP, does CP basically handle customs and delivery for just 20 cents. Ok, so maybe it's not 20 cents, but then what the heck is it, maybe $2.00 ?!?! How can CP explain this? How can they afford and profit from such a small fee to our neighbour (gladly taking our business), then turn around and charge us $7.00? Maybe if they would charge our neighbour a little more, they could cut costs for our own small businesses enough that people shopping online wouldn't be appalled by shipping costs and driven to buy across the border instead!!! If you are shipping to the East side of NA this could be explained, since many things on Amazon.ca come out of the GTA area while on Amazon.com they often come from California. You have to be careful though, many things on Amazon.ca still come from California, if you don't explicitly check for this your package could take 2 weeks instead of 2 days. Also, shipping costs on Amazon (.ca or .com) don't represent real shipping costs. Amazon stores can put whatever they want there and, in the case of low or no shipping costs, absorb the costs into the product price.

I feel like Canada Post is strangling Canadian small businesses that do online retail. That is, without the support of Canada Post, Canadian online retailers can't compete with US or even off-shore online retailers. Why? Because it costs less to ship a small parcel from Southern California (using USPS) to Toronto than to ship the same parcel to your neighbour here in Canada using Canada Post, let alone traverse the country from say Toronto to Vancouver. From what I've seen, Canadian retailers can compete with US retailers in terms of merchandise price, but who's going to buy, say, an iPhone case for $10 from a Canadian online retailer when they have to pay $10+ dollars for shipping versus ~$5 from the far side of the US. Why should we care, you say? Because online retail is a rapidly growing market in Canada. And with a lot of business going off-shore (production, programming, etc.) we need to keep whatever we can. How can we make Canada Post change??? PS. I came across this issue after living in the US for several years. Never thought much of the cheap shipping offered by USPS until I moved back here and attempted to buy something online only to be turned away by the high shipping costs. At first I figured there must be some other more economic way to ship with Canada Post but some google searching only brought up articles like... Canada Post is hurting economy Canada Post Rates Rant

In an effort to get this thread back on track... "Everyone" supports a greener earth? That's a fairly optimistic statement. The only thing the capitalists running this economy support is higher profit. In fact, since higher energy costs would cut into their profits, I'm sure most would be against it. But on the big picture, Canada is already spoiled with green (and cheap) energy so we're not just willing to pay for it, we already are. If we want a greener planet, the real question is if other countries are willing to pay for it. Maybe the British don't look too willing, but I doubt higher costs for green energy is at the roots of why all those kids are burning down their own city. PS. I'd be more than happy to debate how much we're screwing up our own planet in a "Let's screw up our planet" thread.