Environmental Policy

[jdobbin]

Preston Manning has talking all this month on the environment and how vulnerable Harper is on the issue.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/o...68-a5408a5f5896

Manning had the guts. The party's got to end, Manning said. He was shrill, he was a scold, he was right, and he smashed the Progressive Conservatives in the West.

Now he's talking about the environment, with the same message: party's over, and somebody's got to pay the bill, even on the sacred oilpatch. A lot of Albertans are very worried indeed about the environmental degradation they can see -- the open-pit oilsands-extraction operations; the gas flares that light the night within minutes of the legislature in Edmonton; the diminishing Athabasca River, which gave its name to the biggest oilsands deposit.

Specifically, Manning is talking about water, and how wrong it is that oil companies can take four barrels of water from finite rivers to steam one barrel of oil and sand apart without paying for it. He proposes "full-cost accounting," the idea that an industry that uses up a public resource should pay for it.

"In this province, perhaps one of the best places to start applying the concept of full cost accounting and pricing is with respect to water," Manning told the Calgary Chamber of Commerce at the beginning of the month. "Our province includes some of the most important and valuable watersheds and aquifers on the continent. We are also enormous consumers of fresh water, especially by the agricultural and petroleum sectors. And as individuals, because most of us consider water to be virtually free, there is no substantial price constraint on our personal usage."

Manning's talking about applying full-cost accounting to everything from mine-digging to greenhouse-gas emissions and warning that an environmentalist streak in Alberta could upset the Conservatives' lock on politics in Alberta.

The first time, Conservatives who didn't act like conservatives destroyed their own party and handed power to the Liberals for 13 years -- and they'd have kept it if Paul Martin hadn't been both a bumbler and surrounded by a praetorian guard of fools. It can most certainly happen again, only this time with Stephen Harper in the role of Brian Mulroney.

The Tories are vulnerable on the issue and every poll shows they their support is weak when it comes to this area. Manning isn't helping them by chipping away at their failings in this regard.

[noahbody]

The Tories are vulnerable on the issue and every poll shows they their support is weak when it comes to this area. Manning isn't helping them by chipping away at their failings in this regard.

"Ed Stelmach, elected Alberta Premier last fall on a platform of greater control over oil-industry practices, said in his first official appearance in Fort McMurray last week that the government is quietly meeting with oil-industry leaders to spell out that water will be a top agenda item during his tenure."

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financi...004f59d&k=67793

I think the water issue falls under provincial jurisdiction.

I'd say holding the Liberals accountable for their record on the environment would mirror Canadians holding the Mulroney PCs accountable for their failings. The dismissing of the environment plan by the media because the don't like Harper mirrors them dismissing the policies of Manning because of his voice.

[jdobbin]

"Ed Stelmach, elected Alberta Premier last fall on a platform of greater control over oil-industry practices, said in his first official appearance in Fort McMurray last week that the government is quietly meeting with oil-industry leaders to spell out that water will be a top agenda item during his tenure."

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financi...004f59d&k=67793

I think the water issue falls under provincial jurisdiction.

I'd say holding the Liberals accountable for their record on the environment would mirror Canadians holding the Mulroney PCs accountable for their failings. The dismissing of the environment plan by the media because the don't like Harper mirrors them dismissing the policies of Manning because of his voice.

Uh, you're wrong. Water is a shared jurisdiction because it crosses various jurisdictions including into the U.S. and beyond.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/...3-e.htm#federal

As far as your last statement, I have no idea what you are talking about. This isn't all media led and the faster the Tories learn this, the better it will be for them. If Manning is on them about the environment, it should make it clear that they should get a clue.

[gc1765]

Specifically, Manning is talking about water, and how wrong it is that oil companies can take four barrels of water from finite rivers to steam one barrel of oil and sand apart without paying for it. He proposes "full-cost accounting," the idea that an industry that uses up a public resource should pay for it.

I agree with Manning on this one.

[geoffrey]

Using water from a river doesn't make the river have less water... it's all melting from snowpack and glaciers, out here anyways. You can't make a glacier or snowpack melt faster by using the water more.

Something I never understood about the enviro crazies out here! The oil sands are going to us all our water! Uhhh... impossible.

[jdobbin]

Using water from a river doesn't make the river have less water... it's all melting from snowpack and glaciers, out here anyways. You can't make a glacier or snowpack melt faster by using the water more.

Something I never understood about the enviro crazies out here! The oil sands are going to us all our water! Uhhh... impossible.

I think that Manning is also talking about the aquifer. And his argument is that the oil industry should pay market rates for water instead of taking it for free.

[geoffrey]

I think that Manning is also talking about the aquifer. And his argument is that the oil industry should pay market rates for water instead of taking it for free.

If we are talking aquifer, maybe. If we are talking rivers, that's foolish.

[noahbody]

"Ed Stelmach, elected Alberta Premier last fall on a platform of greater control over oil-industry practices, said in his first official appearance in Fort McMurray last week that the government is quietly meeting with oil-industry leaders to spell out that water will be a top agenda item during his tenure."

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financi...004f59d&k=67793

I think the water issue falls under provincial jurisdiction.

I'd say holding the Liberals accountable for their record on the environment would mirror Canadians holding the Mulroney PCs accountable for their failings. The dismissing of the environment plan by the media because the don't like Harper mirrors them dismissing the policies of Manning because of his voice.

Uh, you're wrong. Water is a shared jurisdiction because it crosses various jurisdictions including into the U.S. and beyond.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/...3-e.htm#federal

As far as your last statement, I have no idea what you are talking about. This isn't all media led and the faster the Tories learn this, the better it will be for them. If Manning is on them about the environment, it should make it clear that they should get a clue.

If the issue is they should be paying for the use of water (and I agree that's a good idea) this is a provincial matter (so I'm right). The provinces own the water as a resource. There is shared jurisdiction on the environmental and international water fronts.

[jdobbin]

If the issue is they should be paying for the use of water (and I agree that's a good idea) this is a provincial matter (so I'm right). The provinces own the water as a resource. There is shared jurisdiction on the environmental and international water fronts.

Manning has said that it is both the province and the federal government that have to set the standard on this for environmental protection.

At the moment, many Tories are opposing Manning on the idea of paying for the cost of pollution and use of resources such as water.

[geoffrey]

Show me the cost of pollution. The dollar amount. And I'll be fighting for business to pay for it.

Good luck.

[jdobbin]

Show me the cost of pollution. The dollar amount. And I'll be fighting for business to pay for it.

Good luck.

One way that Manning has said for the cost of the pollution to be accounted for is to stop subsidizing water used by the oil industry. If they paid market rates, they would change their practices quickly.

[geoffrey]

One way that Manning has said for the cost of the pollution to be accounted for is to stop subsidizing water used by the oil industry. If they paid market rates, they would change their practices quickly.

'Market rates'? It's a government owned utility that provides water. There is no market.

[jdobbin]

'Market rates'? It's a government owned utility that provides water. There is no market.

I think what Manning was talking about was the subsidy for heavy water users.

[B. Max]

Show me the cost of pollution. The dollar amount. And I'll be fighting for business to pay for it.

Good luck.

The oil companies are quite busy right now showing the government what a broken economy looks like. Oil patch companies are claiming they are laying off only ten percent of their staff. What they don't tell you is that 80 percent are sitting at home that they are afraid to lay off, and lot of those employees have likely already quit, and many are moving to Sask. where there is oil patch work. They are going to take down a lot of big companies and a lot of small towns and small cities. That government surplus is going to turn into a big fat deficit in a couple a years.

[geoffrey]

That's alot of doom and gloom. Fortunately, I know the industry isn't like that. 80%. Nah. Things have been slower lately, but not that slow. I have many friends in geosciences professions, engineers, and on the accounting finance side in oil and gas and they are all doing just fine. No concerns yet.

You are right though, things will eventually moderate. But don't expect to see Alberta's GDP fall... it will just grow more slowly... again higher than the unimpressive national average.

Alberta already has 150% of the wealth per capita as Ontario. Whoop-de-do. A 0.25% slowdown isn't much in terms of standard of living or anything.

Taxing the hell out of oil and gas sure will get you that recession your looking for though.