eyeball Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) ...that little shit... If there is any reason at all to believe that anyone in the utterly unforgiving mob you're part of would feel the slightest bit differently if he was 8 or 9 or 3 I'd like to hear it. You ******* people make me ashamed to be a human being. (edited so as to appear a little more forgiving) Edited July 20, 2012 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 People shouldn't claim with absolute certainty that he hates this or that and did kill a person or people (though he was apparently witnessed doing so and admitted to it himself). However, it's certainly hypocritical for you to attack people for making unfounded assertions just before engaging in the same act yourself. [ed.: c/e, +] people admit to doing things all the time in order to draw a lesser punishment, it's called plea bargaining...I did the same myself, it was only a traffic violation but I pleaded guilty in agreement with the prosecutor that he ask for no further action from the judge, he didn't have a case and I didn't want to spend any more time in court a deal was made(and I wasn't guilty)...it happens all the time in homicide cases as well so we'll never know if Khadr did what was claimed or he plead out for reduced sentence(time served)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) If there is any reason at all to believe that anyone in the utterly unforgiving mob you're part of would feel the slightest bit differently if he was 8 or 9 or 3 I'd like to hear it. You ******* people make me ashamed to be a human being. (edited so as to appear a little more forgiving) do you recall the alberta girl that took part in her families slaughter, her co-accused claiming she cut her 8yr old brothers throat, a crime far more horrific than Khadr was accused of....well that was 6 yrs ago she out attending university now trying become a normal responsible adult... Canadian courts recognize kids are not adults, they have a different thought process than adults, their brains are not fully developed even when their bodies are... Edited July 20, 2012 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 So those are the only two choices here -- set him free or put him in a program that doesn't work? Why wouldn't you put him up in your house, psychologize him to the point of rehabilitation and send him out a better person? Would you dare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 people admit to doing things all the time in order to draw a lesser punishment, it's called plea bargaining...I did the same myself, it was only a traffic violation but I pleaded guilty in agreement with the prosecutor that he ask for no further action from the judge, he didn't have a case and I didn't want to spend any more time in court a deal was made(and I wasn't guilty)...it happens all the time in homicide cases as well so we'll never know if Khadr did what was claimed or he plead out for reduced sentence(time served)... If he did not have a case, then you should have pushed to win. Don't make a plea bargain if you know you did nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 If there is any reason at all to believe that anyone in the utterly unforgiving mob you're part of would feel the slightest bit differently if he was 8 or 9 or 3 I'd like to hear it. You ******* people make me ashamed to be a human being. (edited so as to appear a little more forgiving) Well your tolerance for a family that has made it their job fighting against Canada and our allies makes me ashamed that you are Canadian... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 do you recall the alberta girl that took part in her families slaughter, her co-accused claiming she cut her 8yr old brothers throat, a crime far more horrific than Khadr was accused of....well that was 6 yrs ago she out attending university now trying become a normal responsible adult... Canadian courts recognize kids are not adults, they have a different thought process than adults, their brains are not fully developed even when their bodies are... That's called a free triple murder. And there is a difference between a 12 year old killer and a 16 year old killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 If he did not have a case, then you should have pushed to win. Don't make a plea bargain if you know you did nothing wrong. and bring in a lawyer at several hundred dollars per, more court dates, more lost time for what? ...there was no guarantee I would win, shit happens I could've been fined,demerit pts against my driving record, increased insurance fees...pleading guilty in exchange for no demerit pts, no fine, no legal fees worked for me... but the point was people plead out for reduced sentences even when innocent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Well your tolerance for a family that has made it their job fighting against Canada and our allies makes me ashamed that you are Canadian... In what universe have I displayed tolerance towards his family? I have clearly argued over and over again that his parent(s) should be charged with his illegal indoctrination as a child soldier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) That's called a free triple murder. And there is a difference between a 12 year old killer and a 16 year old killer. there is a difference between a 12 yr old and a 13 yr old, between a 14 and 15yr old...and 15yr old's are not adults, 16 yr old's are not adults...I spent 25 yr coaching kids and as any teacher will tell you is each age has specific requirements and behaviors...you have this perception something magical occurs when someone becomes a responsible adult at a predetermined age of your choosing...the brain evolves all through childhood and teenage years laws are based on those developments in consultation with psychologists, neurologists and a number of other medical and behavior experts... khadr was still 15 you insisting otherwise is not a defensible point to take, go ahead and have sex with 15 yr old who is one month short of her 16th birthday, "but your honor it was close enough, I'm not a pedophile" ya that'll work well for you... Edited July 20, 2012 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 In what universe have I displayed tolerance towards his family? I have clearly argued over and over again that his parent(s) should be charged with his illegal indoctrination as a child soldier. which is legally recognized everywhere even in Canada, he was a child soldier...the US clearly operates outside of international law when it's convenient with the harper regimes support...I don't think there is a case to be made against his mother that will hold up, the father sure but he's dead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/aldridge060507.htm Decent Canadians don't do this - Decent Canadians don't do that - I'm sick to death of conforming to some boneheads idea of a 'Decent Canadian'. Especially when it involves Al-qaida terrorists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 there is a difference between a 12 yr old and a 13 yr old, between a 14 and 15yr old...and 15yr old's are not adults, 16 yr old's are not adults...I spent 25 yr coaching kids and as any teacher will tell you is each age has specific requirements and behaviors...you have this perception something magical occurs when someone becomes a responsible adult at a predetermined age of your choosing...the brain evolves all through childhood and teenage years laws are based on those developments in consultation with psychologists, neurologists and a number of other medical and behavior experts... khadr was still 15 you insisting otherwise is not a defensible point to take, go ahead and have sex with 15 yr old who is one month short of her 16th birthday, "but your honor it was close enough, I'm not a pedophile" ya that'll work well for you... There are soldiers I have served who were 16 at the time, and there are still 16 year olds in the Canadian Forces, at 16 they were mature and capable individuals who were entrusted with many different weapons. I don't understand why we let 16 year olds in the CF, give them all this responsibility and hold them to a certain standard while a 16 year old who chooses to fight against our allies is held to a different standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 which is legally recognized everywhere even in Canada, he was a child soldier...the US clearly operates outside of international law when it's convenient with the harper regimes support...I don't think there is a case to be made against his mother that will hold up, the father sure but he's dead... I don't know that there is enough evidence to convict his mother either but the fact the government doesn't even entertain the thought of trying speaks volumes about the need to preserve a fairly precise albeit deeply flawed narrative regarding this war and our involvement and behaviour in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 and bring in a lawyer at several hundred dollars per, more court dates, more lost time for what? I'm pretty sure Khadr's lawyers were probono. He knew he was guilty and if he fought it further he would face 40 years in jail so he chose the easy way out. If he were innocent he should have fought to prove that rather than plead guilty and claim to be innocent. ...there was no guarantee I would win, shit happens I could've been fined,demerit pts against my driving record, increased insurance fees...pleading guilty in exchange for no demerit pts, no fine, no legal fees worked for me... Then you are guilty, if you plead guilty you are guilty regardless of wether you consider yourself innocent or guilty.but the point was people plead out for reduced sentences even when innocent... Then they were not innocent, if you are innocent you fight for your rights, if you are guilty you take the best deal possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I don't understand why we let 16 year olds in the CF, give them all this responsibility and hold them to a certain standard while a 16 year old who chooses to fight against our allies is held to a different standard. Start twisting their minds inside out when they're 8 or 9 and see if it makes any difference to their notions of responsibility by the time they're anything resembling an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Start twisting their minds inside out when they're 8 or 9 and see if it makes any difference to their notions of responsibility by the time they're anything resembling an adult. And where does this end? If he comes back and blows up a bunch of Canadians, what happens then? Do we write it off to brainwashing and let him skate on that? Khadr went as a translator and wanted to get in the fight, he made a conscious decision to do so, if we treat him any different than the average wannabe gangster in Canada we will be letting them get away with whatever they want simply because they "had a bad childhood", and when does that cease to be an excuse? When you turn to 18? 19? Or is it the go to excuse no matter what age you are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I don't know that there is enough evidence to convict his mother either but the fact the government doesn't even entertain the thought of trying speaks volumes about the need to preserve a fairly precise albeit deeply flawed narrative regarding this war and our involvement and behaviour in it. they can't go after his mother because by doing so they admit he was a child soldier thereby negligent in not pressuring for his transfer to canada immediately but instead assisted in his interrogations and supported his detention...I imagine their crapping themselves in their cpc headquarters knowing that the moment he returns to canada the legal options for khadr vs the government begin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm pretty sure Khadr's lawyers were probono. He knew he was guilty and if he fought it further he would face 40 years in jail so he chose the easy way out. If he were innocent he should have fought to prove that rather than plead guilty and claim to be innocent. Then you are guilty, if you plead guilty you are guilty regardless of wether you consider yourself innocent or guilty. Then they were not innocent, if you are innocent you fight for your rights, if you are guilty you take the best deal possible. to all that I say BULLSHITTE! you're clearly out of touch dealing with the real world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 people admit to doing things all the time in order to draw a lesser punishment, it's called plea bargaining... so we'll never know if Khadr did what was claimed or he plead out for reduced sentence(time served)... Doesn't that just affirm my point? People jump to conclusions about Omar all over the place, including those who support and condemn him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 There are soldiers I have served who were 16 at the time, and there are still 16 year olds in the Canadian Forces, at 16 they were mature and capable individuals who were entrusted with many different weapons. I don't understand why we let 16 year olds in the CF, give them all this responsibility and hold them to a certain standard while a 16 year old who chooses to fight against our allies is held to a different standard. more bullshitte, just because the military still adheres to some antiquated concept of adulthood doesn't make it correct...the voting age in Canada is 18 you don't see a conflict with that? the government says a person isn't mentally competent enough to make an informed decision to vote until they're 18 but hey your old enough to make a decision whether to kill someone or not 16 yr olds aren't adults...and Khadr was 15, and if you say otherwise we can infer from your train of logic that 15yr old girls in your opinion are fair game sexually as 16 comes right after 15 is that not correct? which to borrow the CPC/vic toews logic would make you in favour of pedophilia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 to all that I say BULLSHITTE! you're clearly out of touch dealing with the real world... Yeah, I'm out of touch with reality... I'm not the one defending a little piece of shit murderer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Doesn't that just affirm my point? People jump to conclusions about Omar all over the place, including those who support and condemn him. sure but he was clearly indoctrinated as a child soldier there is no dispute of that, he was not given choice nor did he the mental faculties to give informed consent...we have many here who point the evil taliban and how they dominate women and the child bride issues and how wrong it is force child marriages yet won't extend that same logic to boys recruited into armies...that's exactly the same twisted f*cked up logic the taliban uses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 more bullshitte, just because the military still adheres to some antiquated concept of adulthood doesn't make it correct... And just because you subscribe to sewage bullshit where no one is responsible for their actions because they were only 16 is complete idiotic bullshit. At 16 I did enough stupid things, most often because I thought I could get away with it, but I knew the difference between right and wrong the voting age in Canada is 18 you don't see a conflict with that? And the drinking age is 19 in Ontario, do you not see a problem with that? When is a person an adult when they can join the military, vote or drink? None of those prove you are an adult, only difference is that in the military those "children" are held to the same standard as the rest of us and they excel in it which to me proves that they are capable of determining right from wrong. the government says a person isn't mentally competent enough to make an informed decision to vote until they're 18 but hey your old enough to make a decision whether to kill someone or not So you think that someone is a child and mentally incompetent of though when they are 17 years and 360 days old but they become so the second that bell strikes midnight? Is there a magical wand involved? 16 yr olds aren't adults...Does not mean that they are stupid or unable to tell right from wrong. and Khadr was 15, 54 days shy of 16, but yeah sure call it 15, more dramatic that way right? and if you say otherwise we can infer from your train of logic that 15yr old girls in your opinion are fair game sexually as 16 comes right after 15 is that not correct? Well if you can form a proper thought maybe I could understand your question...which to borrow the CPC/vic toews logic would make you in favour of pedophilia... Again if you could clean up your question then I can answer, right now you are making no sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yeah, I'm out of touch with reality... I'm not the one defending a little piece of shit murderer. you have no concept of law, no comprehension of biology in regards to behaviour, you express knee jerk opinions with no basis in fact...in short you have no clue what you're talking about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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