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Who will next lead the Parti québécois?


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Everyone is saying Gilles Duceppe; it'll be a crowning. Just like when Bouchard took over after Parizeau's retirement following the 1995 referendum loss.

The PQ cannot afford a long leadership campaign. The Liberal minority government makes problematic a drawn out affair. Many in the PQ want a change of direction but they think it better to have a leader first, then adjust the programme.

But can Duceppe hold this party together and can he deliver the goods - an independent country? The leftist wing of the PQ (SPQ Libre) is happy to see Boisclair go but I'm not sure they'd really be happy to see Duceppe as leader.

Louis Bernard is not the guy (he ran and lost in 2005 coming in 4th) but his basic idea is appealing to many militants. Talk sovereignty all the time. The PQ is not a provincial political party. It's a vehicle to make a country. (That's how Parizeau views it too.)

Or maybe the PQ needs a caretaker now until the political situation is better. Pierre Curzi or Bernard Drainville. Or maybe someone completely outside of electoral politics will step in. Henri-Paul Rousseau, for example.

The PQ membership has a messiah complex - a deux ex machina will arrive and solve the problem. They believe that charisma will create a country. I was about to say that it's a Latin tendency but the idea is really American cowboy movie.

----

So, who'll be the next PQ leader? It's hard to predict anyone other than Duceppe.

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I'll be the first to admit I know next to nothing about Quebec politics, but Duceppe seems like a good choice...if he decides to run (didn't he say last time around he didn't want to?). He seems to be pretty popular/likeable. Probably not popular enough to succeed in a referendum, but is there anyone who actually could right now? Duceppe would seem to be the best hope.

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Duceppe would seem to be the best hope.
Best hope for what? The PQ wants a country!

Latest rumour: Maybe Joseph Facal will try his hand at the helm. (But why would he leave his kids to suffer the slings and arrows of an empty fortune?)

L'ancien député péquiste de Fabre, Joseph Facal, ne ferme pas la porte à l’idée de se présenter pour succéder à André Boisclair.

...

« Quand j’ai quitté la politique en 2003, j’ai bien pris soin de ne pas dire que c’était pour toujours », a dit ce père de deux jeunes enfants qui avait abandonné son poste de ministre pour être plus présent à sa famille.

Pour Joseph Facal, qui vient tout juste d’ouvrir son propre site Internet, josephfacal.com, un couronnement n’est pas souhaitable pour donner un nouveau chef au PQ.

La Presse

Now, Facal would be a challenge for Dumont and Harper and Charest. Even the leftist PQ militants, desperate for a country, might accept him.

BTW, I generally agree with Facal and he also has a new blog: www.josephfacal.com.

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Few could make a difference and change the destiny of this party for the next election,

Pierre Curzy has "charisma" written all over him but no political experience, IMO its an advantage id like to see him, not for his idea, i don't think he's a talented intellectual but for once politics wouldn't be boring. If we can't have politician with good idea, why not have someone interesting and entertaining ?

Duceppe is boring, i think he's an ok politician but id rather have Dumont has prime minister than him.

Has for Facal, well he's my #2 favorite politician. I mean the guy is the most brilliant quebec politician still alive after Bouchard. However im not sure normal ppl would see him has prime minister, in some way im worried, i don't want him to get knife in the back, if he want to take a shot he will have my support but i think he shouldn't go for it, not for the PQ.

The other politician that would interest me are henri paul rousseau, and im not leftish but id give a chance to henri massé to convince me.

Other than that i don'T see anyone else that could be interested and that could change the destiny of this party.

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I'll be the first to admit I know next to nothing about Quebec politics, but Duceppe seems like a good choice...
I am not much further ahead than you but I try.
Duceppe would seem to be the best hope.
Best hope for what? The PQ wants a country!
-- and I want a decentralized Canadian federal government! [i want a little bit more than that but I will settle with less for now....]

As a Canadian, I want Duceppe to stay in Ottawa. He defends Quebec interests in Ottawa and keeps the federal government in check.

Now, Facal would be a challenge for Dumont and Harper and Charest. Even the leftist PQ militants, desperate for a country, might accept him.
This is where Louis Bernard's concept of focussing exclusively on independence may be the PQ's only way to keep the right and left divide together.
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I would like to proudly nominate for the leadership of the Parti Québécois

Jack Layton

His Qualifications

Jack Layton is a native born Quebecer

Bilingual, his effected joual accent would appeal to the Laval, Terrebonne Crowd

An Anglophone who would appeal to the Montreal Anglophone Block

A Socialist who would be unconcerned with the economic devastation caused by séparation

Has a wife who is slanty eyed (as they say on the belle province) which shows how far they have come....

Moustaches are still worn in Montreal

His traitorous attitudes towards Canada would be more appreciated and less odious in Québec

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I am not for any separatist.

Absolutes are a terrible thing.

I like Facal to some extent. My question is bigger than the next leader of the PQ though...

August, you've never been clear on whether your a seperatist or not... but doesn't the idea of a more socialist independant Quebec (almost certainly the way it would go) frighten you?

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but doesn't the idea of a more socialist independant Quebec (almost certainly the way it would go) frighten you?

You know, its really hard to say because politics in quebec has never been a Left vs Right debate, its always been a Federalist vs Sovreignist debate. The funiest thing is Quebec politics is all about the liberals, the PQ and the ADQ where built by old liberals.

Some natural alliance have been made tho, the unions and the left went to the PQ while the right, the anglophone went to the PLQ. But it does not mean that there are no Leftish with the liberal (Thomas Mulcair) and Rightish with the PQ (Bouchard, Facal, Brassard). IMO those politician that have to live with this contradiction make them better politician because they can be respected by both, the left and the right because they become part of both by default. It is also the reason why the Bloc is one of the only party that can make deal with the conservative in ottawa, because its in their blood to be a coalition, it is in their blood to deal with the left and the right at the same time.

So when you say that an independant quebec would be socialist, i disagree. I think that someway the left is more popular in quebec than in the rest of canada but there is a new anti-left movement in quebec that is becoming almost has strong so we don't really know what is going on. I think for a long time the PQ carryed the left on his shoulder, he carryed it or the idea of it and still when it became less popular in the 90's, Lucien Bouchard managed to apply more right wing idea than charest ever did but he still called himself a social democrat and he still managed to have the support of the left over Charest. But now the left is becoming more of a burden for the PQ than anything. They have a hard time trying to please both sides, they are suffering of the image of an old left wich is IMO mostly due to the Landry era. IMO it has always been some kind of myth that the pq has been a socialist party because even someone from the right mostly agree with the Levesque era, then Parizeau has been in power only 1 year to prepare a referendum so he did nothing significant. then there has been the Bouchard era wich was imo the right wing golden era in quebec since duplessis then landry which have been the most leftish government since levesques (funny for an economist that supported free trade) came 2 year and made lots of mistake wich where amplified by the fact it was a 2nd term government and when you added parizeau's and bouchard mistake over it, it was just too much. But when you look at it, when people say the PQ is socialist its false, The Left made the PQ popular then the PQ carryed the left on his back straight from the 70's until 2007 but in fact has never been a true leftish party like the ndp because the right wing guys where pretty much in control inside the PQ.

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I want a decentralized Canadian federal government!

I think over decentralization has already destroyed the face and political federal importance of Ottawa.

Can you imagine what Americans must be thinking when they find out Canadians send their tax returns to Shawinigan, Quebec. a little Northern Quebec bush town, rather that the Capital of Canada, Ottawa, Ontario.

You are a true socialist Charles.

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I think over decentralization has already destroyed the face and political federal importance of Ottawa.
There are very few things that Ottawa does for Canadians that is important that can NOT be done by the provinces.
Can you imagine what Americans must be thinking when they find out Canadians send their tax returns to Shawinigan, Quebec. a little Northern Quebec bush town, rather that the Capital of Canada, Ottawa, Ontario.
Can you imagine what I think of Canadians who supported a government that did that?
You are a true socialist Charles.
You have finally figured me out. I have been exposed!
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I think over decentralization has already destroyed the face and political federal importance of Ottawa.
There are very few things that Ottawa does for Canadians that is important that can NOT be done by the provinces.

I can't really think of any. There is a cost savings of having just one military and one set of embassies/foreign staff (if one at all), other than that, I really can't imagine what can strictly be done better in Ottawa.

One thing that those like Leafless must understand is that not everyone is Ontarian (actually, 70% are not), and the rest of us sure hate living under the Ontario banner that we do. His view of English Canadian culture and values is completely different from my view. His view, while MAYBE (but likely not) a plurality, is definitely far from a majority.

It's not a Quebec power thing, it's about consolidating power so that he can have all Canadians be like English, Canadian-born, Ontarians.

Canada is not a workable concept any more centralised than it is today... in fact, it's not even workable today.

The only people that really call for more centralisation are generally Ontarians that are scared of losing their power and influence. Most British Columbians, nearly all Albertans and Saskatchewanians and many Atlantic Canadians all are looking for less Ottawa.

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Pauline Marois is said to be thinking of returning to politics. She racked up 30.6% of the votes when she lost to Andre Boisclair in the last PQ leadership race. This woman is truly accomplished. Too bad she is a separatist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Marois

Given the fact that 50 % of Charest's cabinet are women, it would be a strategic move for the PQ to select a female leader.

Then again, if Duceppe is elected PQ leader, she may just surprise all the pundits and run for the BQ leadership. Personally, I hope she sticks to provincial politics because she would be quite effective, especially in QP.

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There are very few things that Ottawa does for Canadians that is important that can NOT be done by the provinces.
I do not think many Anglophone Quebeckers want their rights guaranteed by an independent Quebec government. They prefer the rights of Canadians.
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Between Marois and Duceppe, it's a toss-up. Both are experienced. Duceppe's advantage is that he's been a leader, and a leader in English-Canada. Marois' advantage is that she's a woman, and she's occupied every cabinet post. (Women in Quebec have an entirely different status than they do in France or English Canada. Ignore the comparisons to Ségolène Royal.)

The PQ rank and file want a leader who will give them a country. Duceppe might do it because he's a leader, and he can deal with Canada. Marois might do it because she's a woman. (I thought she would defeat Boisclair in 2005.)

Both Marois and Duceppe would hold their own in an election campaign but I wonder now or in 2008 how ordinary Quebecers would face a ballot with either as leader. The PQ is moribund and I don't think Duceppe or Marois can resurrect it. The PQ missed its chance to choose Marois last time, and Duceppe lost his chance to run last time. They can't fix the mistake now.

IMV, between Marois and Duceppe, I hope Facal decides to run. (Maybe a foreigner will make Quebec an independent country.) The PQ has to leave the leftist/unionist slant that it has taken. IMV, it is ultimately this leftist virage that has killed the PQ.

August, you've never been clear on whether your a seperatist or not... but doesn't the idea of a more socialist independant Quebec (almost certainly the way it would go) frighten you?
I'm tempted to do as our GG and hide under the Fifth Amendment.

But instead I'll answer your question, as best I can. I'm no Trudeau federalist. I voted Yes in 1980 naively and in part because I thought it was a good and honest negotiating tactic. Later, I came to the realisation that Quebec is not a province as the others and finding how to incorporate this fact into our Constitution would be a good thing but I don't know how to do it. IMV, we should make society reflect us rather than try to mould people to fit an ideal society. I didn't like Trudeau because he believed in the perfectibility of humans under his guiding hand. I admired Levesque who always defended an open, democratic society. Both Levesque and Trudeau were products of a Quebec classical education, and WWII. But Levesque saw the war as an American soldier; Trudeau saw its consequences as a tourist after the fact.

Geoffrey, you ask a touchy question so let me give you two anecdotes - from either side. In 1980, I recall a conversation with an older Belgian woman, a federalist, who simply said that it's a good thing that young people can travel freely and meet one another. The world doesn't need more borders. I agreed with her then and I still do. In 1995, I recall a conversation with a francophone woman, a senior federal bureaucrat and a ferocious federalist, who wouldn't even tolerate the suggestion that the "separatists" have a legitimate viewpoint. (I recall thinking at the time that this woman was an Uncle Tom.)

I still think that, all things considered, the people of Quebec would be better served by politicians and bureaucrats in Quebec, rather than Ottawa. But this thing called Canada is good for us all. Many people in Quebec have a strong attachment to Canada and they do not want to lose it.

You know, its really hard to say because politics in quebec has never been a Left vs Right debate, its always been a Federalist vs Sovreignist debate. The funiest thing is Quebec politics is all about the liberals, the PQ and the ADQ where built by old liberals.

....

So when you say that an independant quebec would be socialist, i disagree. I think that someway the left is more popular in quebec than in the rest of canada but there is a new anti-left movement in quebec that is becoming almost has strong so we don't really know what is going on.

Very good post, Bakunin, that made me think of many things.

At its origins, the PQ had a broad spectrum. (Imagine Maude Barlow and Preston Manning in the same party, united simply to stand up for Canada.)

Unions, as in Scandinavia, are a part of Quebec society - but here with a Gallic fluorish. Quebec unions are a product of the 1960s, like too much of what passes for an intellectual or progressive elite. The 1960s burdens the PQ, unions, and Quebec in general. It's called the Quiet Revolution. Just like the 1960s were leftist and progressive, Quebec is leftist and progressive - but in Quebec, it's 40 years later.

Like Japan, Quebec has a corporatist nature. In some ways, I'm afraid that in the 1960s, Quebec replaced the Catholic Church with this "counter-culture" ideology. I wonder whether this ideology will prove as resilient a protector as the Catholic Church was.

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Sometime politics is hard to follow,

According to the polls, The PQ was losing support day after day not being able to lead once since the election... and now what ? they takes the lead...

45% of quebeckers wants Pauline Marois, against 21% for Duceppe.

a PQ with Pauline Marois:

PQ: 40%

ADQ: 30%

PLQ: 21%

a PQ with Gilles Duceppe:

PQ: 34%

ADQ: 32%

PLQ: 23%

I knew quebec politic was hard to follow and it was a likly scenario that yesterday's last are tomorow's first...

But that soon, it seem surealist... its like a 20% gain in 1 week...

And even more surrealist is that Marois lost two leadership campain... 2 years ago, a similar poll was showing 40% wanted duceppe and 16% marois...

But has always i have my own theory, i believe a "PQ" that say unanymously they need strong change, and a PQ where any change are possible like some kind of magic in the air, like if politic was on the verge of evolving like in the 70's, it evoke some kind of nostalgia and at some point i believe alot of people feel the PQ could do a good job if they wanted cause they did it well in the 70's. I think that nostalgia please the Quebeckers, the expectation is high, but once the leadership campain is over, once the program is changed, it his sudently a highly volatile vote, after the expectation period come the deception period...

And who is more likly to represent that nostalgia ? Pauline marois of course...

I remember boisclair at ~50% in the poll saying he would recrute a better team than Levesque did... Looks like he felt the nostalgia too.

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But has always i have my own theory, i believe a "PQ" that say unanymously they need strong change, and a PQ where any change are possible like some kind of magic in the air, like if politic was on the verge of evolving like in the 70's, it evoke some kind of nostalgia and at some point i believe alot of people feel the PQ could do a good job if they wanted cause they did it well in the 70's. I think that nostalgia please the Quebeckers, the expectation is high, but once the leadership campain is over, once the program is changed, it his sudently a highly volatile vote, after the expectation period come the deception period...

And who is more likly to represent that nostalgia ? Pauline marois of course...

I don't think those polls represent much of anything.

It appears that Duceppe decided to drop out because he didn't have the support of enough senior party people. And I think many told him that the PQ does not want a long, divisive leadership race now.

It's true that under Marois, the PQ will not have a genuine debate.

I have the distinct impression that many pequistes want to rewind the tape and go back to 2005. The choice of Boisclair was just a dream. It never really happened.

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I don't think those polls represent much of anything.

The polls are the polls, they can be surprising sometime, the opinion vary but when you look at the overall picture, im not sure its not representative. Their are 2 things i know, id be surprise is if it does not change until the next election and that nobody can predict how it will change.

It appears that Duceppe decided to drop out because he didn't have the support of enough senior party people. And I think many told him that the PQ does not want a long, divisive leadership race now.

I 100% agree, and the fact that he changed so quickly is problably because they convinced him to go back to the bloc.

It's true that under Marois, the PQ will not have a genuine debate.

A few days ago i would have agreed, im not a marois fan, ive never been but sometime perception we have can be wrong. Like i said before im a big fan of Joseph Facal, I was surprised has hell when i found out he supported pauline, i was even more surprised when i found out he was supporting her more than ppl would have ever thought... I found out he was writing almost all her speech in 2005 and that there is problably more that we don't know about it, looks like she choosed her camp with the lucide. Then found out how much people supported her, Then found out how much journalist was praising her, its just amazing how MC. Auger and Vincent Marissal are pushing for her...

Then i had a second thought and it was very plausible... In fact in 2005 i did not even wan't to listen what she was saying but at the same time i remembered she had great idea. And one thing that was amazing, few days (less than a week) after she get humiliated she was at the biggest, nastiest quebec talk show there to respond to the media...

Well, sometime there are things we don't know, and i won't make the mistake twice, im not willing to say marois is against a true debate. Maybe she shouldn't be accountable for Landry's mistakes and after all. I think she deserve her chance and since she had a chance to talk to the media and i must say, she's still pronouncing Facal's word...

I have the distinct impression that many pequistes want to rewind the tape and go back to 2005. The choice of Boisclair was just a dream. It never really happened.

What if they wanted to rewind it but not to 2005 or 2003, what if they wanted to rewind it to 2001 ?

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