Higgly Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Fisk is such a dishonest writer that he has spawned a catchphrase: "to fisk", meaning to go over text with a fine toothed comb, correcting each logical fallacy and erroneous fact contained within it. usage: 'He gave the article a fisking to show that the author was insane and completely wrong.' It was the pro-Israeli community that came up with this knickname after Fisk's book "Pity the Nation" came out describing the 1980s invasion of Lebanon by Israel (Ariel Sharon, Defense Minister). Since Fisk was reporting from his home in Beirut throughout the war while anybody who agreed with the IDF's version of events was reporting from Jerusalem where their dispatches were heavily censored by Sharon's people, I'll take Fisk's version of events. The IDF was shovelling doo-doo big time in its press releases at the time and mounted a smear campaign against Fisk which went on for years after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Fisk is such a dishonest writer that he has spawned a catchphrase: "to fisk", meaning to go over text with a fine toothed comb, correcting each logical fallacy and erroneous fact contained within it. usage: 'He gave the article a fisking to show that the author was insane and completely wrong.' It was the pro-Israeli community that came up with this knickname after Fisk's book "Pity the Nation" came out describing the 1980s invasion of Lebanon by Israel (Ariel Sharon, Defense Minister). Since Fisk was reporting from his home in Beirut throughout the war while anybody who agreed with the IDF's version of events was reporting from Jerusalem where their dispatches were heavily censored by Sharon's people, I'll take Fisk's version of events. The IDF was shovelling doo-doo big time in its press releases at the time and mounted a smear campaign against Fisk which went on for years after. Is "pro-Israeli community" code for "Jews"? You did notice that the last little donnybrook involved Reuters being fisked for fake reporting and faked pictures? Wasn't the "Pro-Israeli community", it was the pro-terrorist news organization. Anyway, the fiskings I've seen on Fisk himself involve a discussion of the facts, as opposed to innuendo about Jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Is "pro-Israeli community" code for "Jews"? You did notice that the last little donnybrook involved Reuters being fisked for fake reporting and faked pictures? Wasn't the "Pro-Israeli community", it was the pro-terrorist news organization.Anyway, the fiskings I've seen on Fisk himself involve a discussion of the facts, as opposed to innuendo about Jews. If you want to bring race into this, that is on your hands. You want to start a thread about Fisk, then go ahead. In the meantime, stop trying to hijack this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Galinda Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 In fact – it doesn’t matter who is right. Doesn’t matter where this border is. Ccircumstances of this “accident” to show that Iran want a conflict with West. It’s a kind of political test. If that's the case, why did they send repeated warnings to leave Iranian waters? Prove it. The Iranians probably don't use GPS, so unless there was marker buoys or their boats are on a 12 mile long rope, their warnings don't hold water. As usual - concrete question - BC chick disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Is "pro-Israeli community" code for "Jews"? You did notice that the last little donnybrook involved Reuters being fisked for fake reporting and faked pictures? Wasn't the "Pro-Israeli community", it was the pro-terrorist news organization.Anyway, the fiskings I've seen on Fisk himself involve a discussion of the facts, as opposed to innuendo about Jews. If you want to bring race into this, that is on your hands. You want to start a thread about Fisk, then go ahead. In the meantime, stop trying to hijack this one. Errr...you started arguing about Fisk after I made one comment of historical interest about the credibility of a writer. I merely responded. Stop hijacking the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Why have Iran and Syria's incursions into Iraq gone on without putting them on notice? Why has no one produced any Syrians or Iranians to prove it? Uh hello the Americans arrested Iranian revolutionary guard in Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 "It was the pro-Israeli community..." yes its a code word amd yes its right on cue and yes its the same thing. ..when an event happens int he Middle East, blame it on Israel and go the next step amd blaem it on anyone who supports Israel which is a safe coded way of turning this into a not so subtle racist knee jerk reaction to dettract from the real issue. Whenever anything happens in the Middle East Higgly will be there to make generalzied slurs against what he sees as a conspiracy of Israel supporters behind it all. I am sure Figgy an Polynewby agree with him. And you want to know why Sasha Cohen makes movies like Borat? It is absolutely ludicrous to blame this on "pro-Israel" supporters. However can anyone see why I can not take certain posters seriously anymore witht heir knee jerk slurs and scapegaoting of Israel everytime some nutcase in the Middle East does something? If it wasn't so ludicrous I would laugh but this is what passes as debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 "It was the pro-Israeli community..."yes its a code word amd yes its right on cue and yes its the same thing. ..when an event happens int he Middle East, blame it on Israel and go the next step amd blaem it on anyone who supports Israel which is a safe coded way of turning this into a not so subtle racist knee jerk reaction to dettract from the real issue. Since when are Jews a race? They are no more a 'race' than Christians or Muslims are. I think the word you might be looking for is 'bigot' it applies better in the above instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Oh and don't you all think it's a little tired to be always resorting to the "anti-semite" card? Sigh....I guess when all other argument fails - call names eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Errr...you started arguing about Fisk after I made one comment of historical interest about the credibility of a writer. I merely responded. Stop hijacking the thread. I said that Fisk had claimed the CIA was involved in the Mossadegh coup and asked DogOnPorch if he had any sources to refute the claim. DogOnPorch acknowledged that the CIA had indeed been involved, which should have put paid to the topic. My post was about Iran. Yours was about Fisk. You tried to hijack the thread to make it about your hate of Fisk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 "It was the pro-Israeli community..."yes its a code word amd yes its right on cue and yes its the same thing. ..when an event happens int he Middle East, blame it on Israel and go the next step amd blaem it on anyone who supports Israel which is a safe coded way of turning this into a not so subtle racist knee jerk reaction to dettract from the real issue. Whenever anything happens in the Middle East Higgly will be there to make generalzied slurs against what he sees as a conspiracy of Israel supporters behind it all. I am sure Figgy an Polynewby agree with him. And you want to know why Sasha Cohen makes movies like Borat? It is absolutely ludicrous to blame this on "pro-Israel" supporters. However can anyone see why I can not take certain posters seriously anymore witht heir knee jerk slurs and scapegaoting of Israel everytime some nutcase in the Middle East does something? If it wasn't so ludicrous I would laugh but this is what passes as debate. Of course Rue is probably the worst on this board for spinning everything into a discussion about anti-semitism. This, like ScottSA's Fisk-hate post is another hijack attempt. Just for your benefit Rue, just this once, (so please pay attention) here is a list of pro-Israel non-jews: Margaret Wente, John Ibbitson, Marcus Gee, Mike Wallace, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, George Bush, Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney, Steve Paikin, Steven Harper, Stockwell Day ... Ever hear Bill O'Reilly or Ann Coulter talk about Fisk, Rue? You'd be in heaven. Get the picture, Rue? No more thread highjacking please Rue. If you want to obsess about anti-semitism, start your own thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 "It was the pro-Israeli community..." yes its a code word amd yes its right on cue and yes its the same thing. ..when an event happens int he Middle East, blame it on Israel and go the next step amd blaem it on anyone who supports Israel which is a safe coded way of turning this into a not so subtle racist knee jerk reaction to dettract from the real issue. Since when are Jews a race? They are no more a 'race' than Christians or Muslims are. I think the word you might be looking for is 'bigot' it applies better in the above instance. Let me no when Christians are subject to genetic disorders like tay sachs ....like sickle cell....... Christians are made up of members from various races because of conversion...the jews are a people unto themselves....like the Gypsies or the Gaels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 "It was the pro-Israeli community..."yes its a code word amd yes its right on cue and yes its the same thing. The allegation Scott made was that it is code for the word "Jews". But that's nonsense. Millions of non-Jews, especially in North America, are pro-Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 "It was the pro-Israeli community..." yes its a code word amd yes its right on cue and yes its the same thing. The allegation Scott made was that it is code for the word "Jews". But that's nonsense. Millions of non-Jews, especially in North America, are pro-Israel. ...and that makes them, a community? Are supporters of Nafta called the Pro Free Trade Community? Are supporters of Britain possesion of the Malvinas called the Pro Falklands Community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 "It was the pro-Israeli community..." yes its a code word amd yes its right on cue and yes its the same thing. The allegation Scott made was that it is code for the word "Jews". But that's nonsense. Millions of non-Jews, especially in North America, are pro-Israel. ...and that makes them, a community? What makes a community? Should he call them a faction? Or a movement? What? Is there some special collective noun that you would find more appropriate for these millions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guthrie Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Apparently, this entire sailor hostage crisis began with a Buschista kidnap effort which was both illegal and screwed up Link The botched US raid that led to the hostage crisis By Patrick Cockburn Published: 03 April 2007 A failed American attempt to abduct two senior Iranian security officers on an official visit to northern Iraq was the starting pistol for a crisis that 10 weeks later led to Iranians seizing 15 British sailors and Marines. Early on the morning of 11 January, helicopter-born US forces launched a surprise raid on a long-established Iranian liaison office in the city of Arbil in Iraqi Kurdistan. They captured five relatively junior Iranian officials whom the US accuses of being intelligence agents and still holds. In reality the US attack had a far more ambitious objective, The Independent has learned. The aim of the raid, launched without informing the Kurdish authorities, was to seize two men at the very heart of the Iranian security establishment. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Apparently, this entire sailor hostage crisis began with a Buschista kidnap effort which was both illegal and screwed upLink The botched US raid that led to the hostage crisis By Patrick Cockburn Published: 03 April 2007 A failed American attempt to abduct two senior Iranian security officers on an official visit to northern Iraq was the starting pistol for a crisis that 10 weeks later led to Iranians seizing 15 British sailors and Marines. Early on the morning of 11 January, helicopter-born US forces launched a surprise raid on a long-established Iranian liaison office in the city of Arbil in Iraqi Kurdistan. They captured five relatively junior Iranian officials whom the US accuses of being intelligence agents and still holds. In reality the US attack had a far more ambitious objective, The Independent has learned. The aim of the raid, launched without informing the Kurdish authorities, was to seize two men at the very heart of the Iranian security establishment. ... What the article doesn't quite get around to mentioning is that the "liason office" is not there at the invitation of the Iraqi government, and is in fact there to facilitate the illegal entry of Iranian Revolutionary guards. You really must finish high school woody. After you do, can you please explain what British marines in Iraqi waters have to do with American raids in Iraq? Then perhaps you'll explain how a raid by US forces inside Iraq is "illegal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 ... perhaps you'll explain how a raid by US forces inside Iraq is "illegal". No WMDs, no justification for war, no UN authorization ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 ... perhaps you'll explain how a raid by US forces inside Iraq is "illegal". No WMDs, no justification for war, no UN authorization ... Oh, I'm going to report you for lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 ... perhaps you'll explain how a raid by US forces inside Iraq is "illegal". No WMDs, no justification for war, no UN authorization ... Oh, I'm going to report you for lying. Lying? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 ... perhaps you'll explain how a raid by US forces inside Iraq is "illegal". No WMDs, no justification for war, no UN authorization ... Oh, I'm going to report you for lying. Lying? ? Why yes. Please show me a UNSC resolution claiming the war was "illegal" or even in poor taste. You can't just go around calling things "illegal" you know unless they are. That's slander. You can't say there were no WMD when there were in fact WMD found, not to mention a whack of other things not allowed by the UNSC ceasefire resolution. So you're lying about two things, obviously. The term "justification" is a bit too subjective to be an actual lie; all it does is underline your stunning ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 ... perhaps you'll explain how a raid by US forces inside Iraq is "illegal". No WMDs, no justification for war, no UN authorization ... Oh, I'm going to report you for lying. Lying? ? Why yes. Please show me a UNSC resolution claiming the war was "illegal" or even in poor taste. The UNSC doesn't have to declare something illegal for it to be illegal. You should inform yourself better on this subject before purporting to say someone is lying. Both courtesy and your reputation would benefit. You can't just go around calling things "illegal" you know unless they are. True. That's slander. Actually, there are several technicalities around the law of defamation that would exclude this situation. However, the best defence is always that it be true. I invite anyone who believes I have defamed them to take me to court on this. The invasion of Iraq was illegal. You can't say there were no WMD when there were in fact WMD found, Not to my knowledge. Please do correct me and the rest of all humankind with some credible evidence on this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 The UNSC doesn't have to declare something illegal for it to be illegal. You should inform yourself better on this subject before purporting to say someone is lying. Both courtesy and your reputation would benefit. Oh believe me, I know a tad about intl law, and you are very wrong. Chapter VII of the charter is the highest body of law dealing with international armed conflict, and UNSC resolutions are the interpretive judgements of that body of law. Resolution 687, the ceasefire resolution, set out terms for a ceasefire between the UN and Iraq, and that resolution was promptly broken and judged to be broken by 15 subsequent resolutions, including UNSC res 1441. War by the UN against Iraq was not only legal but demanded. Now, in a case like this, where a member of the UNSC claims legitimacy by virtue of previous UNSC resolutions, in order to make it NOT legal, or to outlaw it, there needs to be another interpretive resolution suggesting that it's not legal. In fact, let me help educate you...nothing is "illegal" or for that matter legal, unless it has been judged to be so by the UNSC. The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was assumed to be against the standards of international law, and it was certainly in violation of some parts of Chapt I of the UNC, but it was not until the UNSC issued a resolution that it was ACTUALLY "illegal". Intl law is not like domestic law, with proactive positive freedoms and clearcut consequences, and such police force as exists is a posse system. So, you are either lying or ignorant. That is a fact, so don't bother reporting me. Or do, as you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuzadd Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 There were NO WMD's in iraq, none niente! David Kay announced that remember, after searching here , there and everywhere. NONE! i am sure nothing would have made the Bush regime happier, BUT, alas there were NONE. Bush lied and lied and lied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc1765 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 You can't say there were no WMD when there were in fact WMD found :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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