9/11

[PolyNewbie]

Dr Stephen Jones was on Alex Jones today and he has found new evidence supporting his original hypothesis of thermate used to demolish the buildings. He says the idea of an energy beam or nuke used on 911 can be shown to be very unlikely.

The high temperature sulfidization described in the FEMA report (with no supplied explanation for it) supports his additional findings of metalized spheres consisting of iron, aluminum and sulfur.

Jones has explained in the past that there is a commercially available variety of thermate that can be made to explode due to super small particle size and it therefore easy to precisely time.

Jones is often discredited by government apologists due to his involvement in cold fusion. He was the principle investigator for this for the department of energy. He investigated metal cold fusion and neon cold fusion. He says both work and there is a small benefit but its too hard to control. Jones has an impressive resume that includes doing his thesis at JPL. He has lost his position at BYU since supporting 911 truth and being the principle investigator/theorist of the movement.

Jones is on 1 + 1/2 hours into the show which starts at 12 EST and cycles every three hours all day long. PrisonPlanet

He has lots of new stuff on 911 and says Dr David Grisham has joined the movement.

Jones has new stuff on 911 TBA at U of Texas - next Saturday night - Jones is inviting physicists to appear. Engineering people are invited to appear as well. He summarizes his findings on the Alex Jones show today.

The best overall site for 911 is 911Research by Jim Hoffman. It describes scientific aspects of 911 in easy to follow slide shows with high resolution photos backing up his points and the evidence.

[kuzadd]

Do you know what a Factual REBUTTAL is?

LOL.

Yes, I do!

Apparently you DO NOT, since you posted this piece of garbage, complete with a fictionalized conversation between 'Mr Soprano' and Avery.( that was clearly a 'tongue in cheek' dialogue), do you know what that is??. Mr Soprano is fictional, you do understand that? He is a character in a tv series, you are aware of that right?

Then you postulate this piece is a rebuttal, and a factual rebuttal, to boot, ?????

I already told you what this piece is, and it isn't a factual rebuttal, in any sense of those words, only in your imagination.

LOL

Actually, I posted that link. As for being a piece of garbage, it's no less accurate than Loose Change or 9/11 Mysteries.

Yes it's a fictionalized conversation, but it's not much different from what you can read on the Loose Change website:

Dylan Avery, 23

Director, Editor, Founder

In May 2002, after spending three months doing construction work on Vines, I had a half hour conversation with James Gandolfini at the opening party. To make a long, drawn out conversation short, James told me, "If you want to be a successful director, you have to have something to say to the world."

It was that month that I began writing "Loose Change," a fictional story about my friends and I discovering that September 11th was not a terrorist attack, but rather, an attack by their own government.

Upon researching for the movie, it became apparant that the subject matter may not have been entirely fiction. Over two years time, adding more and more information, the fictional movie evolved into what it is today; a documentary.

http://www.loosechange911.com/company.htm#dylan

actually stignasty: I originally saw that link posted here, by sunsettomy, some time ago

see here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=8417

wether you posted this previously, I do not know.

The fictionalized conversation is VERY different in that link, then the advice given to Avery, by the actor James Gandolfini, which I had already referred to in my post.

[PolyNewbie]

New Patriots Added to Patriots Question 911

That list sure is growing quick.

[psikeyhackr]

Dr. F R Greening has a number of papers that debunk many of the truthie claims.

The best part: he has a track record of making life difficult for gov't as a 'nuclear industry whistle-blower' so this is one guy you cannot dismiss as a stooge of the gov't.

Unfortunately, he is a chemist, not a structural engineer, but he definitely has more qualifications than any of your truthie 'experts'.

On page 3 of his Energy of Collapse F.R.Greening makes a couple of interestingly dumb mistakes.

He says he divides the total mass of the WTC by 110.

Doesn't the total mass include the 6 basements? So shouldn't he be dividing by 116.

But even worse, isn't the WTC going to be bottom heavy because every floor must support all of the floors above? Doesn't that mean a lot more mass at the bottom? So averaging that mass shifts the mass upwards. He is saying the upper floors are much heavier than they actually were so that would mean a lot more potential energy would go into the collapse therefore his computations are WRONG.

9/11 & when to Average

After all of these years shouldn't the experts be able to tell us the tons of steel and tons of concrete that were on every level? Didn't they have to figure that out to design the building in the 60's?

psikey

[runningdog]

I came across this video and to say the least, I was blown away. This is sort of a 911 video, but not dominated by 911, if that makes any sense. There are 3 parts. The 2nd part consists of 911 news casts/videos, so if you're sick of that type of thing, don't watch as it really doesn't hurt the content of the other 2 parts. Now here's the warning and please think about it seriously before watching.......if you are a deeply religious person and are happy with life, part 1 is not for you, DON'T OPEN!....that said, here's

Zeitgeist

part 1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...The+Movie&hl=en

part 2

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...The+Movie&hl=en

part 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=84...The+Movie&hl=en

[Figleaf]

I wanted to get a bead on something I heard ... I heard that the terrorists who were said to have flown the planes were identified by documents found in the wreckage. Is that correct?

[buffycat]

As far as I recall, there was a passport recovered from the dust of WTC 1 and 2, along with a bunch of stuff at the airport parking lot - a Quran, papers etc. Very convenient, those terrorists like to help with the job!

*snicker*

[kuzadd]

As far as I recall, there was a passport recovered from the dust of WTC 1 and 2, along with a bunch of stuff at the airport parking lot - a Quran, papers etc. Very convenient, those terrorists like to help with the job!

*snicker*

actually, didn't Atta's will , get 'recovered' in an airport parking lot??

So you would , go off, to do a 'mission' but, bring your will along ?, leave it in the airport parking in a car?

How convenient to tie, people to places.

Most people keep there will, in safety deposit box, lawyers office, generally locked up safe, for when it is needed.

Can we say "planted evidence" ?

[Figleaf]

So is that passport story really part of the official version?

Are we seriously asked to believe that a passport survived being engulfed in flames sufficiently hot to melt steel and embroiled in the forces of collapse that are said to have completely pulverized every fragment of human bone involved? Seriously?!? Did the flight's black box survive even?

[kuzadd]

So is that passport story really part of the official version?

Are we seriously asked to believe that a passport survived being engulfed in flames sufficiently hot to melt steel and embroiled in the forces of collapse that are said to have completely pulverized every fragment of human bone involved? Seriously?!? Did the flight's black box survive even?

wrt the passport story:

Also CNN reports:

"In New York, several blocks from the ruins of the World Trade Center, a passport authorities said belonged to one of the hijackers was discovered a few days ago, according to city Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik."

(Bernard Kerik, dirty side-kick of Guliani)

How the passport survived, when it was in the passengers possession, on the plane??

But the black boxes didn't survive.

wrt to blackboxes at wtc :U.S. Lawmakers Push Plan to Upgrade 'Black Boxes'

Air Safety Week, July 28, 2003

Disaster: World Trade Center attacks. American Airlines Flight 11, United

Airlines Flight 175. Sept. 11, 2001.

FDR Re-covered: No

CVR Re-covered: No

Notes: Never found in subsequent removal of towers' wreckage.

[ScottSA]

So is that passport story really part of the official version?

Are we seriously asked to believe that a passport survived being engulfed in flames sufficiently hot to melt steel and embroiled in the forces of collapse that are said to have completely pulverized every fragment of human bone involved? Seriously?!? Did the flight's black box survive even?

Its much easier to believe that the government of an advanced democracy plotted to kill thousands of its own citizens by use of either a deathray or pre-planted explosives, and that not one of the hundreds and thousands of people who must have been involved has talked.

[Figleaf]

So is that passport story really part of the official version?

Are we seriously asked to believe that a passport survived being engulfed in flames sufficiently hot to melt steel and embroiled in the forces of collapse that are said to have completely pulverized every fragment of human bone involved? Seriously?!? Did the flight's black box survive even?

wrt the passport story:

Also CNN reports:

"In New York, several blocks from the ruins of the World Trade Center, a passport authorities said belonged to one of the hijackers was discovered a few days ago, according to city Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik."

(Bernard Kerik, dirty side-kick of Guliani)

How the passport survived, when it was in the passengers possession, on the plane??

But the black boxes didn't survive.

wrt to blackboxes at wtc :U.S. Lawmakers Push Plan to Upgrade 'Black Boxes'

Air Safety Week, July 28, 2003

Disaster: World Trade Center attacks. American Airlines Flight 11, United

Airlines Flight 175. Sept. 11, 2001.

FDR Re-covered: No

CVR Re-covered: No

Notes: Never found in subsequent removal of towers' wreckage.

Wow. Just ... wow.

They really expect people to believe that! Incredibly, simply incredible. Even more incredible, probably some poor fools do believe it. (While others are content to let their leaders get away with the pretense.)

[Figleaf]

.... of the hundreds and thousands of people who must have been involved ....

Yeah, right.

I think it could be done with as few a fifty of the right people.

[BC_chick]

New Patriots Added to Patriots Question 911

That list sure is growing quick.

Even though some of the people on that list simply express doubt without implying blame, those are some high-ranking names on there.

Quite incredible.

[Riverwind]

I think it could be done with as few a fifty of the right people.

Perhaps you should take a visit to the creation museum in Kentucky. You will no doubt find a lot of like minded people who believe the most incredible things even though the overwhelming weight of evidence suggests they are completely wrong...

[bush_cheney2004]

Perhaps you should take a visit to the creation museum in Kentucky. You will no doubt find a lot of like minded people who believe the most incredible things even though the overwhelming weight of evidence suggests they are completely wrong...

Save some gas...go to the Big Valley Creation Science Museum in Alberta instead:

http://www.bvcsm.com/

[jazzer]

Perhaps you should take a visit to the creation museum in Kentucky. You will no doubt find a lot of like minded people who believe the most incredible things even though the overwhelming weight of evidence suggests they are completely wrong...

Save some gas...go to the Big Valley Creation Science Museum in Alberta instead:

http://www.bvcsm.com/

Yep, a real bastion of naivete, and only a few miles from the real thing at Drumheller. That takes balls.

[kuzadd]

I think it could be done with as few a fifty of the right people.

Perhaps you should take a visit to the creation museum in Kentucky. You will no doubt find a lot of like minded people who believe the most incredible things even though the overwhelming weight of evidence suggests they are completely wrong...

Riverwind, I suggest you read a book, called Puppetmasters- the Political use of terrorism in italy.

Then another one about NATO. I've posted the link here previously.

Then, look into the investigations conducted by the Italian government,FINALLY after 45 yrs, of terrorism inflicted on the people of Italy, inc. the killing of Aldo Moro, numerous bombings, inc, trains, the downing of a plane, and more, much more.

You wanna know how 9/11 could be pulled off, with political complicity, complicity of big business, NATO, and other parties??( In the case of italy, the CIA, NATO, factions within the italian gov and big business and of course the mafia)

It will shock your panties off, I guarantee it.

Then read about how these same types of terror campaigns were conducted in other countries, with gov. in collusion with the American gov (CIA) against there own populations.

9/11 is 'the strategy of tension' and nothing more.

[Riverwind]

Riverwind, I suggest you read a book, called Puppetmasters- the Political use of terrorism in italy.

You need to learn some basic logic. Stating that some governments at some time time have used terrorism for political purposes does not add anything to a discussion about whether the WTC towers were blown up by the government.

If it was an inside job then someone would have blown the whistle by now. Secrets that big have a way of coming out - that is especially true given that a large number of people have a vested interest in discrediting GWB.

In addition, the deafening silence from the scientific community illustrates how little scientific merit the truthie arguments have. If there was any merit then there would be respected scientists from around the world lining up to expose the 'crime of the century'.

For that reason I see little difference between evangelical Christians who believe that dinosaurs and man co-existed and people who believe the US government blew up the WTC towers. Both beliefs are fantasies driven by the irrational fears and anxieties of the believers.

[kuzadd]

Riverwind, I suggest you read a book, called Puppetmasters- the Political use of terrorism in italy.

You need to learn some basic logic. Stating that some governments at some time time have used terrorism for political purposes does not add anything to a discussion about whether the WTC towers were blown up by the government.

If it was an inside job then someone would have blown the whistle by now. Secrets that big have a way of coming out - that is especially true given that a large number of people have a vested interest in discrediting GWB.

In addition, the deafening silence from the scientific community illustrates how little scientific merit the truthie arguments have. If there was any merit then there would be respected scientists from around the world lining up to expose the 'crime of the century'.

For that reason I see little difference between evangelical Christians who believe that dinosaurs and man co-existed and people who believe the US government blew up the WTC towers. Both beliefs are fantasies driven by the irrational fears and anxieties of the believers.

would you get off the "logic" kick, I've debated 9/11 with you, to be blunt, you don't have a clue.

despite your pompousness.

read the book, learn something.

No one would have blown the whistle,by now. no one did in italy, get it and get over that bogus aspersion.

Anyone who even came remotely close to letting any info loose, died!

A closed mind is a wasted mind.

Wanna learn something , get the book and the one about NATO, read them.

[Figleaf]

I think it could be done with as few a fifty of the right people.

Perhaps you should take a visit to the creation museum in Kentucky. You will no doubt find a lot of like minded people who believe the most incredible things even though the overwhelming weight of evidence suggests they are completely wrong...

Blah blah blah.

What possible "evidence" do you imagine exists to establish the number of people required to pull of 9/11?

[Riverwind]

What possible "evidence" do you imagine exists to establish the number of people required to pull of 9/11?

That would depend on the exact story line. If you claim, as many truthies do, that the planes themselves were faked then you have hundreds of collaborators were on each of those planes and at the alleged crash sites.

[Figleaf]

You're right, it does depend on what plot you postulate.

IMV, of course real civilian aircraft were used on the WTC. The shattered relatives of the dead are not a large gang of actors hired to henceforth live their whole lives in-character. (As an aside, Flight 93 was intended to strike WTC7.)

The Pentagon, however, was NOT struck by a commercial jetliner. Footage shows a missile or fighter craft, and the damage just isn't right.

On whether WTC1 and WTC2 were brought down by the planes or by secret ancillary explosives, I make no final determination. But either way, it only takes a few guys to wire a building to explode.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But whatever else, I'll tell you this ... passports do not survive experiences that destroy aircraft blackboxes.

[Riverwind]

The Pentagon, however, was NOT struck by a commercial jetliner. Footage shows a missile or fighter craft, and the damage just isn't right.

Which means you would need hundreds of people ready to move in immediately after the event to plant evidence of a plane crash. You also would need a large number of collaborators to mak ethe real plane and all of the passengers on it disappear. Then you have to explain why they would bother to shoot a missle into the pentagon AND making a plane disappear.

But whatever else, I'll tell you this ... passports do not survive experiences that destroy aircraft blackboxes.

You are assuming that you actually have the facts right. Even major media outlets make mistakes or misrepresent sources. For example, you have no idea where the passport was found or how much other debris ecaped incineration. Also you don't know if the passport came from the same plane with the missing black boxes. I know they found some of the black boxes (Flight 93) so maybe the passport was from that plane.

Basically, you no basis to claim that there was something 'fishy' about the found passport because you don't have enough information.

[stignasty]

But whatever else, I'll tell you this ... passports do not survive experiences that destroy aircraft blackboxes.

Considering that the hijacker would have been in the cockpit, and that the bulk of the fuel would have exploded behind the cockpit, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the passport would have been blown through the building. Have a look at the video - lots of paper was ejected at the time of initial impact. My nephew's neighbour in Brooklyn found papers from the World Trade Center in his yard. Other material from the planes were also ejected, such as body parts of the crew.

I don't know where the black boxes are located on a 767. If they were back where the fuel exploded and the fires burned, it's no surprise that they weren't recovered.