Racism

[EchoesofMourning]

It's funny how racism is something that only a white person can do. It's all right for a black comedian to go up on national television and call me a 'cracker' or whatever else he can come up with, but if I were to say 'nigger' on the same venue, I would be crucified. I am curious about the justification for this action.

Please take note that I am not supporting the use of derogatory terms in any way, shape or form, I am simply looking for an explanation as to why it is okay for some ethnic groups to use these terms and it is not ok for others.

[leonardcohen]

It's funny how racism is something that only a white person can do. It's all right for a black comedian to go up on national television and call me a 'cracker' or whatever else he can come up with, but if I were to say 'nigger' on the same venue, I would be crucified. I am curious about the justification for this action.

Please take note that I am not supporting the use of derogatory terms in any way, shape or form, I am simply looking for an explanation as to why it is okay for some ethnic groups to use these terms and it is not ok for others.

I disagree with your opening statement,racism is practically ubiquitous.

Hate is a human trait that stands the test of time.

You can say whatever you want in private life, but as soon as you broadcast it in a public forum

you are history,rightly so.

As for why,three words,''White Liberal Guilt''

[jbg]

It's funny how racism is something that only a white person can do. It's all right for a black comedian to go up on national television and call me a 'cracker' or whatever else he can come up with, but if I were to say 'nigger' on the same venue, I would be crucified. I am curious about the justification for this action.

Please take note that I am not supporting the use of derogatory terms in any way, shape or form, I am simply looking for an explanation as to why it is okay for some ethnic groups to use these terms and it is not ok for others.

I agree that there is a troubling double-standard. Whether all racial joke terms should be taboo, or permitted, is another question. It should be a single standard.

[BC_chick]

Anybody can be racist. The problem is that reverse racism does not have a history of preventing others from acquiring an education, a job, a mortgage, or a place to rent a home.

Calling you a "cracker" doesn't evoke a history of slavery, lynching, and human exploitation.

I'm not arguing that it's okay to be racist toward anyone. But power dynamics within a society do play an important role in the repercussions of racism.

[Leafless]

Anybody can be racist. The problem is that reverse racism does not have a history of preventing others from acquiring an education, a job, a mortgage, or a place to rent a home.

Before you can make a statement like that, it would only be fair to make a comparison to some other country where Whites were the minority and how they would be affected with the conditions you describe.

Unfortunately there are no other countries of another race that harbour millions of Whites and therefore an accurate comparison concerning the scope of racial discrimination cannot be made.

But I can assure you, Whites and or their English language, currently are discriminated against in many countries throughout the world, even linguistically right here in Canada along with individuals practicing outright or reverse racial discrimination resulting in the type of undesirable consequences you describe.

[Figleaf]

But I can assure you, Whites and or their English language, currently are discriminated against in many countries throughout the world, even linguistically right here in Canada along with individuals practicing outright or reverse racial discrimination resulting in the type of undesirable consequences you describe.

There you go, Leafless assures you. So that settles it.

[BC_chick]

Unfortunately there are no other countries of another race that harbour millions of Whites and therefore an accurate comparison concerning the scope of racial discrimination cannot be made.

South Africa has a white minority, yet.....

But I can assure you, Whites and or their English language, currently are discriminated against in many countries throughout the world, even linguistically right here in Canada along with individuals practicing outright or reverse racial discrimination resulting in the type of undesirable consequences you describe.

For example?

[Topaz]

Unfortunately there are no other countries of another race that harbour millions of Whites and therefore an accurate comparison concerning the scope of racial discrimination cannot be made.

South Africa has a white minority, yet.....

But I can assure you, Whites and or their English language, currently are discriminated against in many countries throughout the world, even linguistically right here in Canada along with individuals practicing outright or reverse racial discrimination resulting in the type of undesirable consequences you describe.

For example?

I guess the next question is WHY are some people racist?? Is it power, fear, ignorance or lack of respect for each other????

[jbg]

Unfortunately there are no other countries of another race that harbour millions of Whites and therefore an accurate comparison concerning the scope of racial discrimination cannot be made.

South Africa and Zimbabwe? The results don't look so good.

[Wilber]

For example?

For example it is not difficult to find night clubs in Japan with a sign in English, "Japanese Only" beside the door. And it is legal.

[BC_chick]

I guess the next question is WHY are some people racist?? Is it power, fear, ignorance or lack of respect for each other????

I wonder what would happen if I blamed patriarchy......

[BC_chick]

For example it is not difficult to find night clubs in Japan with a sign in English, "Japanese Only" beside the door. And it is legal.

Disgusting, isn't it?

However, Japan is a highly xenophobic culture who has not built a country based on immigration and multiculturalism.

If they invited people from around the world and then treated them like that.... I'd be just as outraged.

[Wilber]

Actually, I like Japan very much. The people can be very gracious and tolerant of our "barbarian" ways but it is not a multicultural society the way we understand it. It is their country and that's just the way it is. I don't judge them because of it.

[ft.niagara]

Disgusting, isn't it?

Depends on whether you are the discriminator or the discriminatee. In Japan is is not illegal to discriminate, to them it is not disgusting, and they do not care what you think. Your long arm of social justice has no effect on them because you still buy the Toyotas and Sony Playstations.

In Saudi Arabia, they discriminate on religion. I have heard that a nonIslamic can not go to Mecca. They do not care what anyone thinks about it either, including the Pope.

[geoffrey]

I wonder what would happen if I blamed patriarchy......

You'd get a confused look from me. What do you mean?

For example it is not difficult to find night clubs in Japan with a sign in English, "Japanese Only" beside the door. And it is legal.

Disgusting, isn't it?

However, Japan is a highly xenophobic culture who has not built a country based on immigration and multiculturalism.

If they invited people from around the world and then treated them like that.... I'd be just as outraged.

I don't know BC Chick, your a pretty freedom oriented person. You seem rather liberal in your views on government enforcement of people's preferences.

Let me throw this one out there... this coming from someone that doesn't really give a care about someone's race... if some people prefer to not associate with someone of a different skin colour, is that any different than someone prefering to not associate with someone of a different social standing (I have little doubt that we all do it, mostly subconsciously) or of a different political stripe for example.

We all discriminate when we pick friends, lovers, business associates, whatever. Your attempting to say that it's wrong to discriminate on one basis. I agree, skin colour or ethnicity is a silly way to pick your friends, but do we have a right to tell someone (in this case a private business) that they MUST associate with certain people?

Is that not an unjustified infringement upon their liberty?

I'd see the problem if it was an essiential service or the only club in town. But people have options. If one person doesn't black people, liberals or those with green eyes in their bar, I can find a moral justification to force them to do otherwise. Nor can I rationalise an argument where I can deem them immoral for picking their own unique criteria to discriminate those that they associate with.

I have the unusual privledge in working in a very diverse group everyday. I am a minority as a white person and as a male and it's pretty close on national origin. It's a fantastic experience and I learn so much from their various views on the world. Discussing politics over lunch with these people is truly enlightening.

It's unfortunate that some choose not to associate with those outside their ethnic group. But hey, that's their choice, we aren't in a position to condemn that, they just pick different criteria than others.

I saw a rather unscientific study on TV, where two attractive people and two unattractive people were to ask for help in various situations. The difference between the two pairs was enourmous. Some people wouldn't even give the time to the rather average looking folks, but the two attractive people had no problem asking people for all sorts of favours and help.

We do it everyday, just on different, more politically correct, criteria.

[jbg]

Actually, I like Japan very much. The people can be very gracious and tolerant of our "barbarian" ways but it is not a multicultural society the way we understand it. It is their country and that's just the way it is. I don't judge them because of it.

Then why do people howl when certain Americans or Canadians want to at least encourage immigrants to act like Americans or Canadians, or suggest that certain people are better off not coming since they want to import their barbaric cultures here?

[Leafless]

Unfortunately there are no other countries of another race that harbour millions of Whites and therefore an accurate comparison concerning the scope of racial discrimination cannot be made.

South Africa has a white minority, yet.....

Yet what?

Whites are being MURDERED and attacked in South Africa.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=27892

[Leafless]

But I can assure you, Whites and or their English language, currently are discriminated against in many countries throughout the world, even linguistically right here in Canada along with individuals practicing outright or reverse racial discrimination resulting in the type of undesirable consequences you describe.

For example?

Right here in this country we have a multicultural policy entrenched in our constitution (the only country in the world to do this) that is racist against majority White English speaking Canadians.

Our laws were originally established by common consent through our Parliaments, Federal and Provincial and by or courts reviewing prior court decisions. These prior decisions were called precedents, some reaching back hundreds of years.

To-day with the Charter of Right's and Freedom's, we have Provincial judges and Supreme court judges acting as social activist overriding democratic decisions of our Provincial and Federal government thereby silencing the will of the Canadians expressed through their elected MPP's, MLA's and MP's.

Unfortunately countries like Canada, most acts pertaining to reverse racial discrimination are hushed up by authorities, since in a country like Canada, these things are not suppose to happen.

But they do on a grand scale especially involving Islamic terrorism, with Muslims in Europe and Blacks in the U.S.

http://www.quebecoislibre.org/021109-6.htm

http://www.adversity.net/policefire_2_chicago.htm

[Leafless]

But I can assure you, Whites and or their English language, currently are discriminated against in many countries throughout the world, even linguistically right here in Canada along with individuals practicing outright or reverse racial discrimination resulting in the type of undesirable consequences you describe.

There you go, Leafless assures you. So that settles it.

Are you aware of Whites who live in subsidized housing, in some Canadian cities are being forced to leave by other cultures who declare, 'this subdivision is no longer White'.

Surely you must be aware of of Black and Asian gangs in major cities that pull of every crime known to man, primarily against White's.

Or are you simply misinformed and wish to remain ignorant?

[Melanie_]

Semantics again, I know, but I just need to point out......

It surprises me when people get morally outraged when they realize that they can be the victim, not just the perpetrator, of racism. Its like they are saying, "Hey, wait a minute, I'm supposed to have the upper hand here, what happened?" When you use the terms "reverse discrimination" or "reverse racism", you are implying that racism and discrimination are expected to only go one way, and it is unusual to see it coming the other way. That's simply not true. Everyone has biases, and acting on those biases (discriminating) at some point or other is common to every human. Discrimination and racism can't be "reverse", they can just be what they are; a true definition of "reverse racism" would be total inclusion and tolerance for all races.

[Wilber]

Actually, I like Japan very much. The people can be very gracious and tolerant of our "barbarian" ways but it is not a multicultural society the way we understand it. It is their country and that's just the way it is. I don't judge them because of it.

Then why do people howl when certain Americans or Canadians want to at least encourage immigrants to act like Americans or Canadians, or suggest that certain people are better off not coming since they want to import their barbaric cultures here?

Good question. Misplaced guilt? It's something that only seems to afflict tolerant western style societies. Others don't seem to be bothered by it, if they do it, they do it out of courtesy, not guilt.

[BC_chick]

We do it everyday, just on different, more politically correct, criteria.

Oh sure. But I have a problem with any *policy* of exclusion.

I have more friends who are liberal. So what? It's not like I have a sign on my door saying "no Conservatives allowed." (btw, I do have conservative friends too, and I agree, conversation with them is a lot more enlightening than with fellow liberals).

As for calling the Japanese bar policy disgusting, I was being rhetorical. I was basically trying to say two wrongs don't make a right - and furthermore, even if they did, comparing Japan to Canada is not a fair given that they are an exclusive society (correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not true that Japan does not grant citizenship to non-Japanese, or if they do, it's extremely rare?).

As such, I would give them certain leeway in "discriminatory" policies compared to say Canada who invites in 250,000 immigrants per year.

[BC_chick]

Then why do people howl when certain Americans or Canadians want to at least encourage immigrants to act like Americans or Canadians, or suggest that certain people are better off not coming since they want to import their barbaric cultures here?

Immigrants should be free to keep all their customs so long as they are not breaking Canadian law. What is wrong with that?

[BC_chick]

Right here in this country we have a multicultural policy entrenched in our constitution (the only country in the world to do this) that is racist against majority White English speaking Canadians.

How so?

Unfortunately countries like Canada, most acts pertaining to reverse racial discrimination are hushed up by authorities, since in a country like Canada, these things are not suppose to happen.

Yes of course. No doubt your assertion here is based on your strawman argument earlier than multiculturalism is "racism."

First please explain your underlying premise about the "racist" policy of multiculturalism, then we can address this grand conspiracy you believe is in effect.

[geoffrey]

As such, I would give them certain leeway in "discriminatory" policies compared to say Canada who invites in 250,000 immigrants per year.

Most certainly. But in an industry where patrons have a great deal of choice, I really have a hard time justifying imposing societies will on an owner that discriminates.

Let the market deal with it. I wouldn't likely go to a bar where they had a no (insert race here) policy. They lose the business of those ethnic group members, and they lose my business. There is a financial cost to such policies. Eventually the owners will smarten up, or go out of business. If niether happens, that means they are filling a market niche for those that perfer different company in a bar, which again, is beyond any authority of the state to tell people who they should associate with.

So that's my views on it. I've got no problem with exclusion policies. They'll go out of business or be forced to change their ways soon enough.

You can't legislate tolerance.