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Canada Federal Carbon Dioxide CO2 Tax


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15 hours ago, Robert Greene said:

You know David Suzuki said we should just let the population reach whatever it wants. The only thing we should worry about is the western nations telling Africans to have less babies.

Meanwhile Africa is developing rapidly and producing far more C02 than Canada.

Sure. Heck, who do those Africans think they are, wanting a better middle-class life like the one WE, the rich "haves," brought about by uber-polluting Western Europe and North America from the middle 1750s to today, not to mention colonizing them and robbing them of their riches, which, btw, we continue doing to this day?

I agree, let's not let them make the same environmental mistakes we made. But, let's give them a hand, help them develop their economies without lousing up the planet the way we did. It's the least we can do following centuries of slavery, colonization, and today's rape of their mineral and oil riches. Canada, as opposed to Europe and the United States**, never had colonies, but our deplorable mining industry in "developing" countries, as we speak, certainly does not bolster our reputation for fair play.

 

** I know, the U.S. never had colonies per se. But, tell that to Philippinos, Costa Ricans, Cubans, Haitians and pretty much all of Central America. 

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3 hours ago, Jacques D. said:

Sure. Heck, who do those Africans think they are, wanting a better middle-class life like the one WE, the rich "haves," brought about by uber-polluting Western Europe and North America from the middle 1750s to today, not to mention colonizing them and robbing them of their riches, which, btw, we continue doing to this day?

I agree, let's not let them make the same environmental mistakes we made. But, let's give them a hand, help them develop their economies without lousing up the planet the way we did. It's the least we can do following centuries of slavery, colonization, and today's rape of their mineral and oil riches. Canada, as opposed to Europe and the United States**, never had colonies, but our deplorable mining industry in "developing" countries, as we speak, certainly does not bolster our reputation for fair play.

 

** I know, the U.S. never had colonies per se. But, tell that to Philippinos, Costa Ricans, Cubans, Haitians and pretty much all of Central America. 

David Suzuki stands on the idea that we have no right to tell Africans to have smaller families, when we are the ones using a higher portion of resources. He said we should follow their example, and use less energy.

So basically David Suzuki doesn't care about overpopulation, as long as billions of people remain poor.

 

I think the best way to prevent poverty is to curb population growth.

But even the environmentalist won't tell the truth, because they are more afraid of offending liberals than saving the planet.

See when you're liberal, you have to play ball. You're not allowed to give facts.

 

No lets imagine that everyone agrees, no one should have more than 2 kids. In 1000 years we could reduce the population to well under a billion, and probably get to 100 million.

Could you the amount of resources available, per capita, if we had a 98% reduction in the population?

At 100 million we would still be far above the critical mass required to have a modern economy, with cars factories, computers, airplanes.

Most of Brazil could be replanted, and we could reclaim the Amazon rainforest.

Housing could become so affordable, it might only take 5 years to pay off our homes.

 

Look at the price of resources. My parents built a cottage in the seventies from Cashflow. They bought 2 acres of Land for $3500. It cost them $10000 to build a four bedroom cottage.

Lumber use to be dirt cheap. Well it can be that way again, if we get the population under the limit of supply.

 

I don't know exactly how to get there. I'm starting to be in favor of Eugenics. Eugenics is better then a scorched earth and World War 3.

Maybe ethical or semi-democratic Eugenics is the way to go.

Edited by Robert Greene
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16 hours ago, Robert Greene said:

David Suzuki stands on the idea that we have no right to tell Africans to have smaller families, when we are the ones using a higher portion of resources. He said we should follow their example, and use less energy.

So basically David Suzuki doesn't care about overpopulation, as long as billions of people remain poor.

 

I think the best way to prevent poverty is to curb population growth.

But even the environmentalist won't tell the truth, because they are more afraid of offending liberals than saving the planet.

See when you're liberal, you have to play ball. You're not allowed to give facts.

 

No lets imagine that everyone agrees, no one should have more than 2 kids. In 1000 years we could reduce the population to well under a billion, and probably get to 100 million.

Could you the amount of resources available, per capita, if we had a 98% reduction in the population?

At 100 million we would still be far above the critical mass required to have a modern economy, with cars factories, computers, airplanes.

Most of Brazil could be replanted, and we could reclaim the Amazon rainforest.

Housing could become so affordable, it might only take 5 years to pay off our homes.

 

Look at the price of resources. My parents built a cottage in the seventies from Cashflow. They bought 2 acres of Land for $3500. It cost them $10000 to build a four bedroom cottage.

Lumber use to be dirt cheap. Well it can be that way again, if we get the population under the limit of supply.

 

I don't know exactly how to get there. I'm starting to be in favor of Eugenics. Eugenics is better then a scorched earth and World War 3.

Maybe ethical or semi-democratic Eugenics is the way to go.

A Liberal is not allowed to give facts, dixit you? You, a big C Conservative comes up with that one? That's rich.

BTW, I just don't see how this regurgitating post of yours could be in any way relevant to mine. But never mind,  let me just say that you've yet to comprehend why OUR natality rate is so low as compared with, for example, Africa's. Ever been to the latter? Do you have an inkling why Africans, and btw other poor nationalities, have so many offspring? Shall I tell you? No, because it is something that is beyond your limited range of understanding.

So, Eugenics, eh? Another word for Eugenics: The final solution. Let's start, but not necessarily in the following order, with Blacks, Jews, Moslems, mentally-challenged-special needs, Latinos, and women. Now, there's a start. I'm sure Bayer would be more than happy to resuscitate its poison "shower" pellets. And re-open detention centers for these suspicious Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Iranian ex-Canadian Japanese camps. Why not? Some may be Canadian, but who cares? 

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No place has EVER seen a reduction in emissions as a result of a carbon tax. Of course you hear the old argument that they reduce net emissions but they're just using the same fancy math tricks that corporations use to declare a profit as a loss. It's all based on projections, not actual amounts.

Speaking of the oil sands, I get a HUGE laugh out of the most recent McDonalds commercial going on about how their Canadian beef suppliers have reduced their emissions by 15% over the last 30 years. Meanwhile, the oil sands have managed to reduce their emissions/bbl of oil produced by 23% in just over 20 years. Which is pretty borked considering the agriculture-fast food industrial chain is arguably the most destructive industrial chain on the planet and unquestionably the most wasteful. Yet ironically, the same mind-set that cheers the loss of good paying oil sector jobs, whines about how those poor kids at McDonalds don't get paid enough. 

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  • 1 month later...

I am also puzzled (to put it mildly) by the carbon tax strategy of Ms. McKenna.

Since I am ill educated on the subject I often resort to the Minister's Facebook page to glean information on her environmental strategies.  

A few key phrases get repeated on her page:

"Environment and Economy go hand in hand!"   ,  "Pollution is no longer free!"  etc, etc   These lines bring me back to the late 70's and early 80s when I and my schoolmates were chiming similar socialist propaganda.

While it appears some of the carbon tax collected is refunded to those it came from (bizarre  , isn't it), some will end up in the government's coffers. But how does it affect our behavior?  The rich will continue flying on their jets, continue to have a huge carbon footprint and will continue to not care.  The poor will continue to go to work and just become poorer if the tax is not refunded to them.  Net effect:  a bit of extra money for the government and no progress on the climate change front.

Maybe we should monitor the Minister's relevant posts.  Today she posted this:

"Canadians see the climate changing in the flooding, the fires, the storms, and the heat waves. The NDP want to do some of the things we are already doing to fight climate change, but their approach would threaten jobs and hurt workers. We invite them to support the many other measures we are taking, including a just transition for workers, ensuring it's no longer free to pollute, and investing to help communities adapt to a changing climate."  ...........then continuing her usual assault on conservatives.

same old, same old      Maybe McKenna should let us know how she let Imperial Metals off the hook for what they did to Quesnel Lake and river, or how she approves one pipeline after another and creates jobs to protect the environment.  Oh , my, what an endless volley of crap on that Facebook page.

 

 

 

Edited by Charles Anthony
thread merged; former title " Carbon Tax!...What carbon tax? "
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23 minutes ago, Audrey Devlin said:

Climate change and its proposed solutions are not "socialist propaganda", unless you are one of those who simply refuses to look at the science that is right in front of you.

What solutions?  There are solutions?  Do the Chinese know about this???

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1 hour ago, Audrey Devlin said:

Climate change and its proposed solutions are not "socialist propaganda", unless you are one of those who simply refuses to look at the science that is right in front of you.

The socialist propaganda is simply the central planning aspect, the science is neither here nor there, the government is inherently corrupt, incompetent and dysfunctional, so the "solution" is just going to be a big corrupt, incompetent,  dysfunctional boondoggle for entrenched interests who control the levers of government, and the taxpayer will be getting a huge bill to pay in the process, at which point you will have discredited yourselves for generations to come, Climate Barbies will go out of fashion and then we'll find out what decentralized market forces can do about it instead.

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9 minutes ago, Audrey Devlin said:

Absolutely - green technology is ready to go - we need the political will here in Canada to make it happen, as i stated in my post.

do some research, China is working on it. 

Ah yes, the Canadian left's favored paragon of virtue, the brutal totalitarian dictatorship in Beijing.

Keep pushing that as your model, that's another thing that's going to blowback on your agenda to bring it down.

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This is also a situation where our right wing American cousins will largely protect us from the more extreme Canadian socialist boondoggles, because whatever the Americans decide to do, it's not likely to be socialist centrally planned, and Canadian politicians know that they cannot deviate from the American model as the Canadian economy is integrated with American economy now, so the Americans will decide for Canada, and that is going to keep things from going off the deep end, although the Climate Barbies will still provoke a backlash by trying to ram things down people throats by sheer democratic force.

It doesn't take much of an insurgency, to grind a central plan to a halt, particularly with the Americans backing us up.

Edited by Dougie93
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Bear in mind that we've had these idiots running Ontario for the last 13 years and their "Green Plan" is a total disaster which Ontarians haven't even got the actual bill for yet, the government is afraid to give us the bill, because they know it's going to be explosive, so what they are actually doing is borrowing money to pay for it, so they don't have to face the rage that will come if people in Ontario actually find out what their "Green" power really costs.

 

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33 minutes ago, Audrey Devlin said:

Absolutely - green technology is ready to go - we need the political will here in Canada to make it happen, as i stated in my post.

do some research, China is working on it. 

China is building hundreds of coal fired power generation plants in many different countries.  Don't expect anything Canada could do to make any difference.   Get yourself a Prius if you want.  Just don't think it makes a difference.

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Don't expect the superpowers to make any difference neither, because in order to impose the "solution", they would have to fight wars, and that would just get bogged down in insurgencies same as the other leftist utopian central plan to force the Afghans  to send girls to school did.

According to the climate scientists, the situation is so grave already, that what would be needed is forced de-industrialization,  emergency measures.

But even a global coalition led by America and China working together, doesn't really have to power to make that happen.

They couldn't even get the Taliban to back down, they have no chance of forcing anything on industrialized countries, those countries would simply build nuclear weapons to defend their industrial power and then the leftist faireys and unicorns would be  bringing us to the brink of annihilation by that vector instead.

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Additionally, since you are so very nihilistic about all of this, please do not post to me again.  After all, I am clearly just a "Climate Barbie".  Your cynicism and dark negativity is unwelcome.  There is much to be done - you will not be a part of it, but may be saved by it.  We are all in this together, regardless of your position on it.

Bye, Dougie.

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3 hours ago, Audrey Devlin said:

Additionally, since you are so very nihilistic about all of this, please do not post to me again.  After all, I am clearly just a "Climate Barbie".  Your cynicism and dark negativity is unwelcome.  There is much to be done - you will not be a part of it, but may be saved by it.  We are all in this together, regardless of your position on it.

Bye, Dougie.

Whatevs, you can cling to your socialist centrally planned fantasies as you like, we are going to defeat you, without even breaking a sweat, we're not in this together, I am your enemy, you're not going to be dragging us anywhere,  but go ahead and impale yourself on that petard, I enjoy crushing leftists and their hare brained schemes, so this is going to be fun.

I welcome Climate Barbies like you, because not only is your environmentalist agenda going to be derailed, you'll take the entire leftist agenda down with you in a right wing revanchist backlash which will slaughter all your sacred cows.

Remember that I told you so, when it comes to pass.

Edited by Dougie93
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3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

China is building hundreds of coal fired power generation plants in many different countries.  

Very true: https://www.npr.org/2019/04/29/716347646/why-is-china-placing-a-global-bet-on-coal

And the US is behind them: "There is still a question of how to supply energy sustainably. If China falls short, Chinese officials at least know they can expect scant criticism on coal investments from the U.S. government. President Trump's administration has also been promoting coal."

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6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Climate science ?  What ?  That's just wrong.  Hardly anyone is denying that anymore.

Obviously I suspect that it's being exaggerated, the scientists being a leftist entrenched interest looking to bum rush people into the leftist centrally planned agenda, but I honestly hope not,  Climate Barbies won't be able to do anything about it, but the chaos that would ensue would empower right wing extremism which will burn like a firestorm across the world, taking the establishment liberal order with it as it goes.

 

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8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

1. Obviously I suspect that it's being exaggerated, the scientists being a leftist ...

2. ...the chaos that would ensue would empower right wing extremism which will burn like a firestorm across the world, taking the establishment liberal order with it as it goes.

 

1. Right.  Data that's open to review by the public, from innumerable sources is being modified to achieve an agenda, is that it ? You are a conspiracy theorist then.  I see.

2. the liberal order has created wealth and entrenched power in the wealthiest.   Hard to see who is going to come to power in your alt-right revolution, but ok.

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1 hour ago, Audrey Devlin said:

Well, thanks for your input.  here are some interesting stats for you, if you choose to read or believe them;

https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/

 

China is positioning itself as a global climate leader, and its actions have an enormous impact on global greenhouse gas emissions. Discouragingly, a rise in coal consumption drove Chinese CO2 emissions to a new high in 2017, which will likely be exceeded again in 2018.

 

From your article.  Who wrote that?

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32 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And the US is behind them: "There is still a question of how to supply energy sustainably. If China falls short, Chinese officials at least know they can expect scant criticism on coal investments from the U.S. government. President Trump's administration has also been promoting coal."

 

...and so is Canada, which has not reduced GHG emissions as much as the U.S. going way back to the massive Kyoto FAIL.

Vancouver terminals are the single largest exporters of coal from North America:

 

Quote

“Coal production is a mainstay of the province’s economy, generating billions of dollars in annual revenue and supporting thousands of well-paid jobs,” reads the website for B.C.’s Ministry of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources.

Coal is the province’s number one export commodity, with $3.32 billion of coal mined in 2016. Much of this is metallurgical coal, which is exported to Asia for the making of steel.

 

1124_biz_wire_westshore.jpg?quality=80&s

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/yes-anti-pipeline-vancouver-really-is-north-americas-largest-exporter-of-coal

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37 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Very true: https://www.npr.org/2019/04/29/716347646/why-is-china-placing-a-global-bet-on-coal

And the US is behind them: "There is still a question of how to supply energy sustainably. If China falls short, Chinese officials at least know they can expect scant criticism on coal investments from the U.S. government. President Trump's administration has also been promoting coal."

Absolutely.   I use China because they are head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to AGW cynicism, but the US is not far behind.  The difference is, the US could change its mind next year.  China won't.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Right.  Data that's open to review by the public, from innumerable sources is being modified to achieve an agenda, is that it ? You are a conspiracy theorist then.  I see.

2. the liberal order has created wealth and entrenched power in the wealthiest.   Hard to see who is going to come to power in your alt-right revolution, but ok.

Conspiracy in plain sight, publicly funded leftist ideological scientists whose solution to everything just happens to be a government cash grab.

The wealth is really just a Ponzi scheme, so be sure to take your profits as you go. 

In terms of who will come to power, I would guess it will be the fascists, but they're actually great for business and a bulwark against communism.

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