3,500 City of Ottawa Jobs to be bilingual

[Kapitän Rotbart]

How you define bilingualism is not particularly relevant. I'm telling you that the tests define it, depending on the rating, considerably more tightly. Executive jobs, for the most part, esp in Ottawa, are C/C/C, meaning perfect or near perfect fluency. Standards are lower outside the NCR, of course, esp out west, but the power is in Ottawa.

Government bilingual test are crap.

There are few perfectly bilingual Francophone's, and you know 95% of the time that person is Francophone.

I know many Francophone's and although I don't make it an issue and relating to many of them, their comprehension of the English language is terrible and many do not comprehend what you are telling them in simple English.

A direct comparison can be made to a parrot, they can speak English words, but do not understand, what is being said.

BTW- Your condescending statement. "Standards are lower outside the NCR, of course, especially out west, but the power is in Ottawa", describes exactly the corrupt, discriminatory aspects of 'official bilingualism' in our federal government.

Leafless, wow, you really did it this time... you claim to be quoting me, yet Argus said that. Get your quote formating right or don't quote. Don't put words in my mouth.

If few francophones are bilingual, then a bilingual government does not favor the francophones. Why does it matter if someone is francophone? It seems like you're good at identifying them. Good job, you can identify someone of another language after having been exposed to them for so long. Also, just because someone cannot speak your language fluently does not mean they are any less intelligent than you... they most likely speak their first language at least as well as you speak yours. Man, do you travel at all? Have you been around people having trouble speaking English in other countries? I think you need to learn some tolerance.

No, like many of the Jews in pre-war Germany, my family saw the writing on the wall, and got out before the language fascists could make life any more miserable.

Oh, like the Nazis, the language fascists killed 6 million anglophones and 7 to 12 million non-anglophone immigrants, just because they're evil.

I'd think twice before referring to Québec's provincial government as fascists... Your family made a choice to move from Québec to another province, which is a personal choice. You don't have to point the finger just to justify their personal choice. I don't like Québec's provincial government because of their socialist infrastructure, but there has been no political oppresion like in fascist or communist countries. Québécois are still free to leave Québec, so it's nothing compared to Nazi-Germany.

What assumptions about Quebec have I made? I don't recall mentioning any. Please list these assumptions.

You assume that the sample of Canadians having the highest proportion of bilingual people would be the anglophone québécois.

Again, you are weaseling out of responding to the actual point. The government is not going to outsource all jobs, so deal with the situation as it stands. Your statements have been, to paraphrase "I dont' care about skill or ability, so long as they speak French." Is that an innacurate summation?

Alas it is innacurate. You seem to think it's a trade-off (skilled workers for bilingual ones) whereas I see it as an addition (skilled workers who are bilingual). I care that government employees be skilled and bilingual.

What makes you think "many people" will be given the opportunity to take a year off with pay to learn French?

Many people were given the opportunity, but nowadays less and less. It's quite expensive, but the gov't has been doing it for a while.

You think so, do you? Adult High schools? At two evenings a week? Yes, presuming you can work all day, then go to school in the evening, and study hard, that should have you passing those bilingual tests in no more than five or six years.

Your knowledge about the time required, and how much time people have available are as ridiculous as your assertions about language and bilingualism in general. In fact, all your posts are unthinkingly arrogant and condescending towards anyone who, unlike you, did not have the benefit of growing up with both languages.

Regardless, it is still feasible for adults, unless approaching retirement, to work towards their second language and see the benefits pay off before they retire. It's usually worth the effort. Also, even if not for themselves but for their children, parents can encourage their children to work hard towards their second language in order to have a much easier time achieving a good job after college.

Quebec cannot become a republic as there is no political process to accommodate that demand.

What are you going to do, separate and call yourself a republic with nothing, because that's what would be left of Quebec, nothing, after business and the feds pull out.

Is my screen name Québec? I am not Québec, so I cannot seperate from Canada. In fact, I've never lived in Québec. Like you, I am Ontarian and Ontario is the only Canadian province in which I've lived. I was saying that Canada can become a republic if it chooses to, regardless of the Queen's intentions.

None of that going to happen. But regardless, you're jumping to a different subject which is irrelevant to whether or not the existing employees should be hired and promoted based on skill or based on an unneeded language skill.

As I said, almost all jobs not actually using language skills could be outsourced. I don't see why doctors and scientists should be required both languages, but I also don't see why they should represent the federal government.

You'll forgive us miserable Anglos if we complain anyway, won't you?

Somehow the idea that all government services should be run by Quebecers when it's mostly Ontarions and Albertans paying the bills strikes me as a tad undemocratic.

It's not my place to forgive. I'm not the one offended by the complaints (but you do go down in the respect-o-meter for comparing Québec's provincial government with the Nazi party... there are no similarities between the two and out of all the terrible events that happened in this world's societies, why always refer to the Nazis? This shows a lack of creativity and reasoning). Ontarians and Albertans pay into equalization, otherwise all Canadians are paying the same rates on income tax for the most part. There are tonnes of Ontarians working in the provincial government, and plenty of those Québécois who work for the feds move to Ottawa in order to pay less taxes, and are now Ontarian residents, paying into equalization. Are they still Québécois? By birth maybe, but they're Ontarian residents now, so they're Ontarian too. Anyone knowing both languages has the same shot at federal gov't labor, so Albertans can get these jobs too.

Are you arguing the point or weaseling out of talking about it as you tried above? The great majority of jobs which are given a bilingualism designation will go to Francophones. A large percentage of the rest (based on observation, as the govt does not record this) go to Anglo Quebecers. The govt also doesn't record that but generally speaking the great majority of bilingual people are Quebecers, so designating a job "bilingual" generally means it will go to a Quebecer. And generally, a less-competent employee than they could have had

Are you suggesting that these Francophones are not bilingual? I don't want francophones to be getting these jobs if they can't speak English. Are you suggesting that Francophones and bilingual Anglophones are less competent than other Canadians?

[Leafless]

Leafless, wow, you really did it this time... you claim to be quoting me, yet Argus said that. Get your quote formating right or don't quote. Don't put words in my mouth.

Me putting words in your mouth? Ha-ha-ha. Good one. All the broadband you have using up with trivial opion without an authorative source, greatly defeats the pupose of this site and degrades it to nothing more than a common gossip column.

How can I be putting words in your mouth when you have acknowledged it was Argus's initial post?

Regardless an error was made but nevertheless my reply remains the same.

Your screen name matches your personality and is indicative of Quebec's Nazi type language charter.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Leafless, wow, you really did it this time... you claim to be quoting me, yet Argus said that. Get your quote formating right or don't quote. Don't put words in my mouth.

Me putting words in your mouth? Ha-ha-ha. Good one. All the broadband you have using up with trivial opion without an authorative source, greatly defeats the pupose of this site and degrades it to nothing more than a common gossip column.

How can I be putting words in your mouth when you have acknowledged it was Argus's initial post?

Regardless an error was made but nevertheless my reply remains the same.

Your screen name matches your personality and is indicative of Quebec's Nazi type language charter.

I haven't seen you using better sources than mine.

Right, because my screen name is German for "Captain Redbeard", going by your reasoning, everyone using the German language is a Nazi (even today), and everyone who is in favor of a bilingual government supports a fascist Québec government (even if they've never lived in Québec). Your reasoning equals no reasoning, plus you're just envious that I have a redbeard

[Leafless]

I haven't seen you using better sources than mine.

I was replying to fantasy or wishful thinking, that's why.

I know your trolling and I am just killing time or worse still, wasting my time.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Funny, I was about to say the same. This forum is good for between writing letters. I wouldn't use a forum to tell the world why I'm right... a spiffy video on a stand-alone website would be much more effective.

I also think it's funny how you somehow know that I'm a Liberal Nazi-Québécois who spends enormous effort at arguing against your righteous opinions. Have we met? Seriously though, just because I favor a bilingual federal government does not make me any of that.

Hey buddy, if I'm causing you to waste time, that means you're giving me control over you. Oh no, I might oppress you! You had that one coming.

[guyser]

What a load of crap spewed on this subject. We have two camps, those that see the value in bilingualism at a Fed level and somewhat needed (if overwrought), and those that hate French in way shape or form. Sad really. The vitriol spewed against the French and the spoken language is plainly there for all to see.

Unfounded accusations, ridiculous arguements , hatred , hell even the nazi crap is being mentioned.

Arrogance and ignnorance indeed.

We have two founding parties to this country. Upper and Lower Canada. Respect both

[Argus]

Government bilingual test are crap.

I agree.

There are few perfectly bilingual Francophone's, and you know 95% of the time that person is Francophone.

I know many Francophone's and although I don't make it an issue and relating to many of them, their comprehension of the English language is terrible and many do not comprehend what you are telling them in simple English.

This is not my experience. Most non-Quebec Francophones I have met speak English very well, though occasionally they have difficulty with vocabulary, or in writing. The Quebec Francophones have varying skills, but most are pretty good, though their accent is far stronger than franco Ontarions or for that matter, Francophones from New Brunswick or anywhere else. Mind you, almost all the Francophones I know are government employees.

A direct comparison can be made to a parrot, they can speak English words, but do not understand, what is being said.

BTW- Your condescending statement. "Standards are lower outside the NCR, of course, especially out west, but the power is in Ottawa", describes exactly the corrupt, discriminatory aspects of 'official bilingualism' in our federal government.

Standards ARE lower for the tests out west. That is why some people try to take their second language tests out there instead of in the NCR. The standards are lower because, quite obviously, there is not a great number of bilingual people out there, so they pretty much have to take what they can get.

[Argus]

I'd think twice before referring to Québec's provincial government as fascists... Your family made a choice to move from Québec to another province, which is a personal choice. You don't have to point the finger just to justify their personal choice.

It was a personal choice based on the obvious: The majority of French people in Quebec do not like English people, and do not want them living in their province. They're not too fond of Jews or ethnics either. Quebec politics, for the last thirty years, has been about ethnic nationalism and identifying "the other" as the enemy of the Quebecois. Quebec is by far the most racist and bigoted province in Canada. In no other province could virulently and openly bigoted people be regarded with and treated with respect as union, artistic, cultural and political leaders.

What assumptions about Quebec have I made? I don't recall mentioning any. Please list these assumptions.

You assume that the sample of Canadians having the highest proportion of bilingual people would be the anglophone québécois.

I did not consider Francophone Ontarions as any kind of unique grouping. And that is nit-picking anyway.

Again, you are weaseling out of responding to the actual point. The government is not going to outsource all jobs, so deal with the situation as it stands. Your statements have been, to paraphrase "I dont' care about skill or ability, so long as they speak French." Is that an inaccurate summation?

Alas it is inaccurate. You seem to think it's a trade-off (skilled workers for bilingual ones) whereas I see it as an addition (skilled workers who are bilingual).

It doesn't work that way. Let me put it more plainly. In any group of workers, there will always be a few who stand out from the rest in terms of knowledge, skill, leadership abilities, etc. In the private sector, these are the employees who get promoted. Not in government. In the government, it really doesn't matter if these workers stand head and shoulders above the rest. The primary screening criteria is bilingualism. Therefore, it is not the motivated, intelligent, experienced, skilled employee with leadership skills who gets promoted - it's the bilingual one.

That's not to say that you can't be fluently bilingual and also one of those who stand head and shoulders above the rest. But statistically speaking, since language skills are rarely one of the primary components of ones job, that would be merely a coincidence.

What makes you think "many people" will be given the opportunity to take a year off with pay to learn French?

Many people were given the opportunity, but nowadays less and less. It's quite expensive, but the gov't has been doing it for a while.

Yes, less and less. This is why the high number of Francophones (Quebecers mostly) in management and executive positions is rising rapidly.

You think so, do you? Adult High schools? At two evenings a week? Yes, presuming you can work all day, then go to school in the evening, and study hard, that should have you passing those bilingual tests in no more than five or six years.

Your knowledge about the time required, and how much time people have available are as ridiculous as your assertions about language and bilingualism in general. In fact, all your posts are unthinkingly arrogant and condescending towards anyone who, unlike you, did not have the benefit of growing up with both languages.

Regardless, it is still feasible for adults, unless approaching retirement, to work towards their second language and see the benefits pay off before they retire.

Feasible? It's feasible I could become a nuclear physicist in my spare time too. It's just not bloody likely. I have known people who went to french immersion schools from kindergarten on who could not pass the government French tests. For that matter, many Francophones have a lot of trouble with them.

None of that going to happen. But regardless, you're jumping to a different subject which is irrelevant to whether or not the existing employees should be hired and promoted based on skill or based on an unneeded language skill.

As I said, almost all jobs not actually using language skills could be outsourced. I don't see why doctors and scientists should be required both languages, but I also don't see why they should represent the federal government.

This is simply more evasion.

Anyone knowing both languages has the same shot at federal gov't labor, so Albertans can get these jobs too.

GUFFAW!!!

Are you arguing the point or weaseling out of talking about it as you tried above? The great majority of jobs which are given a bilingualism designation will go to Francophones. A large percentage of the rest (based on observation, as the govt does not record this) go to Anglo Quebecers. The govt also doesn't record that but generally speaking the great majority of bilingual people are Quebecers, so designating a job "bilingual" generally means it will go to a Quebecer. And generally, a less-competent employee than they could have had

Are you suggesting that these Francophones are not bilingual? I don't want francophones to be getting these jobs if they can't speak English. Are you suggesting that Francophones and bilingual Anglophones are less competent than other Canadians?

Continued evasion noted.

[Argus]

What a load of crap spewed on this subject. We have two camps, those that see the value in bilingualism at a Fed level and somewhat needed (if overwrought), and those that hate French in way shape or form. Sad really. The vitriol spewed against the French and the spoken language is plainly there for all to see.

Unfounded accusations, ridiculous arguements , hatred , hell even the nazi crap is being mentioned.

Arrogance and ignnorance indeed.

We have two founding parties to this country. Upper and Lower Canada. Respect both

As you clearly have nothing intelligent to say, and nothing of substance to add, why post? Do you really think it's that important that we know where you stand on this issue? We knew before you posted. We know where you stand on almost everything. You are almost completely predictable in your unthinking, ignorant, knee-jerk politically correct, squishy, bleeding heart liberal way.

[Leafless]

What a load of crap spewed on this subject. We have two camps, those that see the value in bilingualism at a Fed level and somewhat needed (if overwrought), and those that hate French in way shape or form. Sad really. The vitriol spewed against the French and the spoken language is plainly there for all to see.

Unfounded accusations, ridiculous arguements , hatred , hell even the nazi crap is being mentioned.

Arrogance and ignnorance indeed.

We have two founding parties to this country. Upper and Lower Canada. Respect both

Respect has nothing to do with the federal union of British North America.

BTW- Respect is earned NOT FORCED.

According to the 'Charter of rights and Freedoms, states: "Canada is founded upon the principles that recognize the supremacy of GOD and the rule of law."

Now, to correct your mistaken assumption that there were two founding parties, when there are in fact FIVE founding parties who are responsible for the creation of the federal union of Canada.

These five FOUNDING parties are:

1.- Province of Canada

2.-New Brunswick

3.-Nova Scotia

4.-Prince Edward Island

5.-NewFoundland

There is NOTHING absolutely NOTHING relating to any kind of bilingualism or 'federal official bilingualism'.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Government bilingual test are crap.

I agree.

I do not know all bilingual tests in the government, but from my experience, they're too easy. My case was contract work, so the gov't wanted a bunch of people willing to get the work done quickly, having bilingualism as a moderate priority. Honnestly though, what are your suggestions for improving gov't bilingual tests (other than scratching them altogether)? Would you prefer a standard bilingual test nation-wide? My suggestion is that both languages be tested, regardless of the candidate's claimed first language, and that both languages being tested at equal difficulty.

There are few perfectly bilingual Francophone's, and you know 95% of the time that person is Francophone.

I know many Francophone's and although I don't make it an issue and relating to many of them, their comprehension of the English language is terrible and many do not comprehend what you are telling them in simple English.

This is not my experience. Most non-Quebec Francophones I have met speak English very well, though occasionally they have difficulty with vocabulary, or in writing. The Quebec Francophones have varying skills, but most are pretty good, though their accent is far stronger than franco Ontarions or for that matter, Francophones from New Brunswick or anywhere else. Mind you, almost all the Francophones I know are government employees.

A direct comparison can be made to a parrot, they can speak English words, but do not understand, what is being said.

Most of the Francophones you know are government employees, probably because you have no particular interest in the Francophone community, so this is no surprise. However, you know a particular sample of Francophones (government employees, being a minority amongst the 7 or 8 million Francophones in Canada), making it hard to make generalizations about the entire Canadian Francophone population.

Also, just as there are Francophones with poor English language skills, there are Anglophones with poor French language skills, so you should not judge their intellect based on their language capacities in their second language.

BTW- Your condescending statement. "Standards are lower outside the NCR, of course, especially out west, but the power is in Ottawa", describes exactly the corrupt, discriminatory aspects of 'official bilingualism' in our federal government.

Standards ARE lower for the tests out west. That is why some people try to take their second language tests out there instead of in the NCR. The standards are lower because, quite obviously, there is not a great number of bilingual people out there, so they pretty much have to take what they can get.

Or possibly no standards at all! I'm not too informed about the federal government's hiring process out West, but the provincial public sector is not harmonized at all in terms of language. To become a judge in Ontariario, one is required bilingualism. However, one could easily become a judge up in the territories without being bilingual, then returning to Ontariario and work as a judge. Not many people do this (because of the inconvenience of having to move to another province/territory), but there are ways around provincial language policies. I'd assume there are ways around language testing within the federal government aswell.

Don't most people, even from the Western provinces who work for the federal government likely end up working in the NRC? I'd suppose anyone wanting to work for the government would be much better off being fluent in both languages, even though it is possible to get in on weaker language skills outside the NRC. In many cases an easier test would not be favorable if they later have to wear an "English/Français" ID tag and cannot serve the Francophones in French.

[Leafless]

Hey buddy, if I'm causing you to waste time, that means you're giving me control over you. Oh no, I might oppress you! You had that one coming.

Control over me? Ha-Ha-HA. I freely responded to show how silly you are. The only thing you have been instrumental in accomplishing, is hiding the real facts this topic was designed to expose with many pages of insignificant B.S.

It's obvious you don't even know what oppress means.

Control, oppress, you have to be from Quebec.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

What a load of crap spewed on this subject. We have two camps, those that see the value in bilingualism at a Fed level and somewhat needed (if overwrought), and those that hate French in way shape or form. Sad really. The vitriol spewed against the French and the spoken language is plainly there for all to see.

Unfounded accusations, ridiculous arguements , hatred , hell even the nazi crap is being mentioned.

Arrogance and ignnorance indeed.

We have two founding parties to this country. Upper and Lower Canada. Respect both

Respect has nothing to do with the federal union of British North America.

BTW- Respect is earned NOT FORCED.

According to the 'Charter of rights and Freedoms, states: "Canada is founded upon the principles that recognize the supremacy of GOD and the rule of law."

Now, to correct your mistaken assumption that there were two founding parties, when there are in fact FIVE founding parties who are responsible for the creation of the federal union of Canada.

These five FOUNDING parties are:

1.- Province of Canada

2.-New Brunswick

3.-Nova Scotia

4.-Prince Edward Island

5.-NewFoundland

There is NOTHING absolutely NOTHING relating to any kind of bilingualism or 'federal official bilingualism'.

Newfoundland joined us in 1949.

There were two founding people in Canada, and the country is big enough for both of them.

You have the Province of Canada to thank for reinstating French as an official language in Canada.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Hey buddy, if I'm causing you to waste time, that means you're giving me control over you. Oh no, I might oppress you! You had that one coming.

Control over me? Ha-Ha-HA. I freely responded to show how silly you are. The only thing you have been instrumental in accomplishing, is hiding the real facts this topic was designed to expose with many pages of insignificant B.S.

It's obvious you don't even know what oppress means.

Control, oppress, you have to be from Quebec.

I'll let you think that. It's obvious that you cannot recognize a joke.

Seriously man, loosen up. You're not getting any younger.

[Argus]

I know many Francophone's and although I don't make it an issue and relating to many of them, their comprehension of the English language is terrible and many do not comprehend what you are telling them in simple English.

Most of the Francophones you know are government employees, probably because you have no particular interest in the Francophone community, so this is no surprise. However, you know a particular sample of Francophones (government employees, being a minority amongst the 7 or 8 million Francophones in Canada), making it hard to make generalizations about the entire Canadian Francophone population.

I don't believe I ever did generalize about the "entire Canadian Francophone population"

Or possibly no standards at all! I'm not too informed about the federal government's hiring process out West, but the provincial public sector is not harmonized at all in terms of language. To become a judge in Ontariario, one is required bilingualism.

I did not know that. That would help to explain why we have so many mediocre and incompetent judges on the benches now. There is no reason whatever why all judges should be bilingual in Ontario given probably no more than 1% of cases would involve Francophones.

Don't most people, even from the Western provinces who work for the federal government likely end up working in the NRC?

No, most never move.

I'd suppose anyone wanting to work for the government would be much better off being fluent in both languages, even though it is possible to get in on weaker language skills outside the NRC. In many cases an easier test would not be favorable if they later have to wear an "English/Français" ID tag and cannot serve the Francophones in French.

You seem incapable of getting it through your head that the vast majority of bilingual positions have no contact with the public whatsoever.

[Leafless]

Newfoundland joined us in 1949.

There were two founding people in Canada, and the country is big enough for both of them.

You have the Province of Canada to thank for reinstating French as an official language in Canada.

"The term "Fathers of Confederation" generally refers to all of the people who represented the British North American colonies at one or more of the three conferences that paved the way for the birth of the Canadian federation (these were held in Charlottetown, Quebec and London, England between 1864 and 1867)"

And Newfoundland was a (father of confederation) included at the Quebec Conference in 1864.

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/aia/default.asp?L...fe#Participants

Regarding: "You have the Province of Canada to thank for reinstating French as an official language in Canada."

No, we can thank Mr. Trudeau and the Liberal party of Canada for that one and we can thank the Province of Quebec for so nicely co-operating with the ROC by making French the official language of Quebec without including any type of bilingualism policy, especially concerning its status as a minority non-commercial language.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

That would help to explain why we have so many mediocre and incompetent judges on the benches now.

Why would bilingual candidates make less competent judges than non-bilingual candidates?

You seem incapable of getting it through your head that the vast majority of bilingual positions have no contact with the public whatsoever.

Just because these positions have no contact with the public does not mean that bilingualism is not needed for the job. Anyone having federal employees under them are "supposively" bilingual because according to the language act, Ottawan federal employees can work in their prefered domestic language, including reporting to their boss (who is essentially bilingual). Most fedral positions that truly don't make use of bilingualism (no contact with the public, no federal employees under them, do not read texts in both languages, etc.) could be outsourced.

we can thank the Province of Quebec for so nicely co-operating with the ROC by making French the official language of Quebec without including any type of bilingualism policy, especially concerning its status as a minority non-commercial language.

Québec chose to have only French as an official language at a provincial level, and there is no reason why this should not have been permitted. French is a majority and commercial language in Québec.

[guyser]

As you clearly have nothing intelligent to say, and nothing of substance to add, why post? Do you really think it's that important that we know where you stand on this issue? We knew before you posted. We know where you stand on almost everything. You are almost completely predictable in your unthinking, ignorant, knee-jerk politically correct, squishy, bleeding heart liberal way.

Ahh, I see you are still stuck on stupid .

But I see you responded, so I gather you recognize you are the ignorant one in reference to the earlier post?

Carry on then.

[Leafless]

Québec chose to have only French as an official language at a provincial level, and there is no reason why this should not have been permitted. French is a majority and commercial language in Québec.

The whole reason for confederation was the aim and not the perpetuation of cultural diversity but the establishment of a united nation.

Quebec still has not learned this 130 years later.

Their still stuck in first gear on cultural diversity.

[Argus]

That would help to explain why we have so many mediocre and incompetent judges on the benches now.

Why would bilingual candidates make less competent judges than non-bilingual candidates?

Because when you make the basic screening criteria for the position one that is unrelated to legal acumen you wind up with inferior candidates.

This is absolutely basic logic. I find it bizarre how confused it gets you.

You seem incapable of getting it through your head that the vast majority of bilingual positions have no contact with the public whatsoever.

Just because these positions have no contact with the public does not mean that bilingualism is not needed for the job. Anyone having federal employees under them are "supposively" bilingual because according to the language act, Ottawan federal employees can work in their prefered domestic language, including reporting to their boss (who is essentially bilingual).

This is true. This is how bilingual positions were multiplied and expanded throughout the federal public service. Most of the public believes that Official Bilingualism is merely there to serve the public in the language of their choice. Ignorant people like guyser think no further than that. Outside of Ottawa they haven't followed how Official bilingualism was widened and broadened for purposes completely unrelated to serving the public in their own language.

The expansion of Official Bilingualism was intended to get more Quebecers into senior positions in the public service, and has succeeded admirably. Within another ten or fifteen years almost all senior positions will be held by Quebecers. Until, that is, the rest of English Canada notices, and then the backlash will be something to see. I'm quite looking forward to it. I'm hoping the backlash will be so great that the Quebecois will be so insulted they will leave and we will be rid of them.

we can thank the Province of Quebec for so nicely co-operating with the ROC by making French the official language of Quebec without including any type of bilingualism policy, especially concerning its status as a minority non-commercial language.

Québec chose to have only French as an official language at a provincial level, and there is no reason why this should not have been permitted.

Especially after they chased out all the maudit anglais, eh? Now if you could only get rid of the Jews and ethnics they'd finally have the ethnically pure state so many of you dream of.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Québec chose to have only French as an official language at a provincial level, and there is no reason why this should not have been permitted. French is a majority and commercial language in Québec.

The whole reason for confederation was the aim and not the perpetuation of cultural diversity but the establishment of a united nation.

Quebec still has not learned this 130 years later.

Their still stuck in first gear on cultural diversity.

Yeah, but wasn't it the federal gov't who declared Canada officially multicultural? That would fall under Trudeau's mischievous schemes, right?

However, looking on the bright side, cultural diversity helps Canada avoid the problems found in countries like France, where the government wants to assimilate everyone within their borders, yet failing at integrating their immigrant population.

Anyway, choosing another language does not mean opting for cultural diversity. They just agreed on the majority language of the region. I wouldn't blame Québec for this one... just Trudeau.

[guyser]

That would help to explain why we have so many mediocre and incompetent judges on the benches now.

Why would bilingual candidates make less competent judges than non-bilingual candidates?

Because when you make the basic screening criteria for the position one that is unrelated to legal acumen you wind up with inferior candidates.

This is absolutely basic logic. I find it bizarre how confused it gets you.

Basic logic? Since one has the right to a court trial in the language of either English or French how does that fit logic? Maybe all the good ones learn the other language, you know for advancement . No....that couldn t be the case.

So it follows to your learned ways French = stupid.

Ignorant people like guyser think no further than that....

Still stuck on stupid ?

[Kapitän Rotbart]

That would help to explain why we have so many mediocre and incompetent judges on the benches now.

Why would bilingual candidates make less competent judges than non-bilingual candidates?

Because when you make the basic screening criteria for the position one that is unrelated to legal acumen you wind up with inferior candidates.

This is absolutely basic logic. I find it bizarre how confused it gets you.

Isn't it pretty much anyone who has gone through the formal education anywhere in Canada pretty much guaranteed a job as a judge? Ontario hires all their applicants, but to go from lawyer to employable judge in Ontario bilingualism is required, otherwise the completion of formal education is not granted. You don't wind up with inferior candidates either way, but in this case Ontario is hiring all qualified judges, but for them to become qualified in Ontario requires both languages. That means they get 100% of their candidates, good or bad, but qualified.

You seem incapable of getting it through your head that the vast majority of bilingual positions have no contact with the public whatsoever.

Just because these positions have no contact with the public does not mean that bilingualism is not needed for the job. Anyone having federal employees under them are "supposively" bilingual because according to the language act, Ottawan federal employees can work in their prefered domestic language, including reporting to their boss (who is essentially bilingual).

This is true. This is how bilingual positions were multiplied and expanded throughout the federal public service. Most of the public believes that Official Bilingualism is merely there to serve the public in the language of their choice. Ignorant people like guyser think no further than that. Outside of Ottawa they haven't followed how Official bilingualism was widened and broadened for purposes completely unrelated to serving the public in their own language.

The expansion of Official Bilingualism was intended to get more Quebecers into senior positions in the public service, and has succeeded admirably. Within another ten or fifteen years almost all senior positions will be held by Quebecers. Until, that is, the rest of English Canada notices, and then the backlash will be something to see. I'm quite looking forward to it. I'm hoping the backlash will be so great that the Quebecois will be so insulted they will leave and we will be rid of them.

Man, you're full of spite. I still have trouble grasping what you say.

Argus, please answer the following:

1. When you say Quebecers/Quebecois, do you mean Anglophone Québécois, Francophone Québécois, Seperatist Québécois or all Québécois?

2. Which Québécois are filling federal positions and why do they want to do so?

3. Are you including the people from Québec who have been living in Ontario for at least a couple years (for tax purposes) as Québécois?

I really don't know which Québécois you are referring to. Seperatists want nothing to do with the federal government, so they would have no interest in working for the feds. The Anglophone Québécois are usually federalist and would seem like any Canadian from any other province, so even if federal positions are staffed with Anglophone Québécois, I don't see what's the beef. As for Francophone Québécois, there are few of them who are bilingual, but for the ones who are, I would imagine that few of them would be seperatist and if they're qualified, why not let them have the federal positions? Those from Québec who've been living on the Ontarian side of the border for at least a year or two are now Ontarian residents (for the most part) and pay Ontarian taxes, therefore they're just as Ontarian as you and me.

By the way, this backlash of yours will only happen if unemployment rises incredibly because of bilingual policies. As long as Canada has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, nothing's gonna happen.

we can thank the Province of Quebec for so nicely co-operating with the ROC by making French the official language of Quebec without including any type of bilingualism policy, especially concerning its status as a minority non-commercial language.

Québec chose to have only French as an official language at a provincial level, and there is no reason why this should not have been permitted.

Especially after they chased out all the maudit anglais, eh? Now if you could only get rid of the Jews and ethnics they'd finally have the ethnically pure state so many of you dream of.

Ethnically pure? Man, you're a sick-o. If we're to talk about race, la race québécoise is predominantly Scandinavian-Viking (from the settlers of Normandie, France), Irish, some French and some Native. Many Québécois like other Canadians are mixed with Portuguese/Brazilian and other Hispanic Nationalities, Black, Arab, Asian and so forth and so on.

Québec made French official. No one kicked the "maudit anglais" out of Québec... many Anglophones found it more convenient to move to another part of their own country than to learn a second language. This is a personal choice they have made, but it's not like they couldn't stay. Most of the Anglophone Québécois I know, whether they speak French or not prefer to live in Québec because of the culture and the socialism (Anglophone Québécois are typically Liberal).

[seabee]

Québécois love anglophones. In fact, many thing every Québécois household should have one at its service.

[this is the symetrical transposition of what the English were saying in the 1950's]

[Leafless]

Yeah, but wasn't it the federal gov't who declared Canada officially multicultural? That would fall under Trudeau's mischievous schemes, right?

Trudeau was responding to Quebec's cultural demands or in fact could have been working on behalf of Quebec to establish a large degree of linguistic prominence. This is a fact when you consider originally it was biculturalism not multiculturalism.

However, looking on the bright side, cultural diversity helps Canada avoid the problems found in countries like France, where the government wants to assimilate everyone within their borders, yet failing at integrating their immigrant population.

Multiculturalism was not made policy to accommodate immigrants but rather to accommodate Quebec's linguistic prominence. The only reason biculturalism was not made policy was because of Western demands that bicuturalism did not properly reflect the cultural diversity of Western Canada, so multiculturalism was adopted but with the same intent relating to biculturalism, concerning Quebec..

Of course Canada wants immigrants to assimilate, but to suggest Canada is successful at this requires proof. I think Canada is the same boat as France relating to successful immigrant integration and all one has to do is look at the cultural mess in cities like Toronto.

Anyway, choosing another language does not mean opting for cultural diversity. They just agreed on the majority language of the region. I wouldn't blame Québec for this one... just Trudeau.

Trudeau played hand in hand with Quebec linguistic ideologies.

In Quebec linguistic culture diversity rules, just check out the 'French Language Charter'.