Jump to content

Elections in Iran


Riverwind

Recommended Posts

Moderate conservatives opposed to Mr. Ahmadinejad have won a majority of the seats, followed by reformists who were suppressed by hardliners in 2004, results released by the Interior Ministry showed.

The vote was widely seen as a sign of public discontent with Mr. Ahmadinejad's hardline stance, which has fuelled fights with the West and led Iran closer to UN sanctions.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home

Now, Iran's elections can hardly be called free and fair because many barriers are put in place to prevent true reformers from running. However, these elections are more meaningful than the elections in virtually any other Muslim country with the exception of Turkey. They certainly are more meaningful that any elections that have been held in Iraq to date.

If George W and co really wanted to promote democracy in the middle east he could start by ending the demonization of one of the few Islamic societies that shows an interest in democracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree.

It was unfortunate to see Iran moving away from Reform in the 2005 Presidential election, and it's nice to see that they might be moving back in that direction. How much of a factor do you think the war in Iraq/axis of evil rhetoric was on the 2005 elections? I always figured that probably played a big role. One of the best things that could happen for peace in the region is to get Iran back on the path to reform.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How much of a factor do you think the war in Iraq/axis of evil rhetoric was on the 2005 elections?
The two are directly connected. Iran was under direct military threat by a hostile superpower. It is only natural that they would react in the way they did. However, it appears that US experience in Iraq has shown the US to be a paper tiger which will allow Iranians to get back on the path to reform.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, these elections are more meaningful than the elections in virtually any other Muslim country with the exception of Turkey. They certainly are more meaningful that any elections that have been held in Iraq to date.
I disagree. The elections in Lebanon and Iraq are more meaningful than elections in Iran. (Malaysia is another example and perhaps Bangladesh and Indonesia too but I don't know much about either.)

Iran and Saudi Arabia are both Islamic states and they have similarities because of this. It is nonsense to speak of a "democracy" in Iran.

I recall a conversation I had on the rooftop of a building in Tehran, looking out over a huge city. An Iranian explained to me, "Iran is both a western and an eastern country. At the moment, it is the eastern side that has control but this won't last forever." As you may know, Farsi is an Indo-European language that happens to use Arabic script.

Iran, perhaps more than Saudi Arabia, is a hypocritical society. The public face is entirely different from the face shown in private.

I think the best way to deal with totalitarian regimes is to confront the government directly. I don't believe in detente. At the same time, we should establish ties and encourage where possible any dissidents. It is up to the Iranian people to overthrow this regime. We should make it plain that we are on the side of individual freedom. There are many, many Iranians who are no more pious than I am - they certainly don't believe in an Islamic state. These people are now silenced and alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the best way to deal with totalitarian regimes is to confront the government directly. I don't believe in detente. At the same time, we should establish ties and encourage where possible any dissidents.
So you believe we should be boycotting China and demanding that they give up their nuclear program? Or is such treatment reserved for despots that happen to believe in a religion you don't like?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you believe we should be boycotting China and demanding that they give up their nuclear program? Or is such treatment reserved for despots that happen to believe in a religion you don't like?
No, I said we should establish ties with individuals inside the country while confronting the government directly.

But Riverwind, IMHO, China's current regime is a vast improvement over what Mao was and what the Gang of Four could have been. This takes patience, and I think we should be pragmatic. China is different from Iran, North Korea, Syria and Cuba.

In a few years, perhaps even months, the regime in Cuba will fall and new people will suddenly have to become politicians. It would help if these people, and the people who support them, have had contacts with ordinary people and politicians in the civilized West.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But Riverwind, IMHO, China's current regime is a vast improvement over what Mao was and what the Gang of Four could have been. This takes patience.
Which is my entire argument with Iran - If Nixon followed your logic there would have been no detente. No 'One China' policy and the world would likely be dealing with an extremely hostile regime today if not open warfare.

The roots of reform in Iran already exist. They will take root but it takes patience. Sabre rattling and threats of invasion simply slow that process down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Nixon followed your logic there would have been no detente. No 'One China' policy and the world would likely be dealing with an extremely hostile regime today if not open warfare.

The roots of reform in Iran already exist. They will take root but it takes patience. Sabre rattling and threats of invasion simply slow that process down.

I disagree. We should threaten and stand up to the government while simultaneously being civilized to people living under the regime.

IMO, detente refers to Nixon's policy towards the Soviet regime - specifically the politburo. Nixon met Brezhnev several times and gave him several cars. They negotiated SALT I and Apollo-Soyuz. I don't think this was greatly productive. Their cultural agreements were better - allowing Pan-Am flights to Moscow and Aeroflot to NY.

For his first seven years in office, Reagan refused any meeting with anyone in the Politburo. A German teenager had landed a Cesna on Red Square before Reagan met Gorbachev. Meanwhile, Reagan ordered US embassies and consulates in all Soviet bloc countries to post on the street front 8x10 glossies of senior Soviet politicians, listing in detail their assets - foreign and domestic, assets of their wives, ex-wives and where their children studied. Reagan increased the budget of the VOA.

In the West, we have too much information. It is hard to imagine how rumour plays a role in totalitarian regimes. The Internet, fax machines and cheap air tickets have fortunately changed this - but only partly.

If the US government had any sense, it would post publicly in front of its Riyadh embassy the CIA's information about gay and lesbian members of the Saudi royal family. Photos, names and details.

Unfortunately, the US still doesn't have an embassy in Tehran to post similar photos of the Iranian regime's family members.

----

Nixon's meeting with Mao was grandstanding, before an election, to a domestic US audience that Nixon perceived as Leftist. Mao, like all psychopathic dictators, sought recognition. The meeting at best made possible contacts between Chinese and Americans - something that would have occurred anyway. The ping pong tournaments were more important than Nixon's meeting with Mao.

The key steps in modern Chinese history were the failed coup of Lin Baio and in particular, the success of Deng Tsiao-Ping. We in the West cannot claim any credit for Deng's success except that we made his pragmatism obvious because Westerners had contact with Chinese.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,712
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    nyralucas
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • Jeary earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Venandi went up a rank
      Apprentice
    • Gaétan earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • Dictatords earned a badge
      First Post
    • babetteteets earned a badge
      One Year In
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...