Examinging Canada's job crisis

[mikedavid00]

Our gov't would like us to believe that everything is rosey and fine when it's not. The govt's first function is to instill confidence in it's people. The facts are, things are not fine. I've discussed many times Canada's Healthcare crisis, but there is another crisis that I don't discuss much which is our underemployment and job crisis. This is a more complex issue that I don't have the alll the answers to. However, I would like to spread awareness that we are steadily losing full time jobs.

In 1989, you could watch TV and see massive lineups outside HRDC offices. With the advent of the Internet, these lineups have been eliminated and job seeking is more efficient these days. The visuals of a job crisis are not there.

MEDIA SPIN AND HYPE

StatsCan is a slanted political organization that hides the specifics of its polling and data analasyst methods. It releases info the media which it will then report. They will always put out spins that we have increased numbers of jobs and a skilled labour shortage. Here's some examples.

Underemployment

HYPE: "The vast majority of Canadian workers were satisfied with their jobs in 2002, but about 1 in 12 (around 1.3 million) were not, according to a new study." -stats can.

TRUTH: "Seventy-six per cent of Canadian respondents said they feel stress in their daily lives frequently or sometimes. Canadians were most likely to name their jobs, 32 per cent, or their finances, 28 per cent, as the most important causes of that stress." - Decima Survey poll released today.

Skilled Shortages

HYPE: "Of 277 private companies polled, 62 percent responded that a shortage of skilled workers is slowing their growth. In Alberta, 31.5 percent of the companies polled said they "strongly agree" that labor shortages are slowing their growth, followed by 24.4 percent in British Columbia." - PricewaterhouseCoopers.

TRUTH: "Employment is up in Alberta, but interestingly 9 out of 10 new jobs are part time." - Canadian Labor Congress report on Dec. 1.

Overall employment

HYPE: "In November, the Canadian economy added 22,400 jobs, which was ahead of expectations for a gain of 10,000. The job gain, coupled with the unusual surge of 50,500 jobs in October, showed the Canadian labor market remains healthy" - stats can media spin

TRUTH: "Across Canada, the total number of full-time jobs declined by 18,100 between October and November. This decline was masked by a large increase in part-time employment. - Canadian Labor Congress report on Dec. 1.

Solution

We need to stop taxing business all together. We need a made in Canada solution. We need more small business, agressive loan programs.. we don't need franchises from the US creating this part time employment.

"The unemployment numbers – Statistics Canada’s Labour Force Survey reports that in November 2006 the unemployment rate rose to 6.3% from 6.2% the previous month, because newcomers to the job market did not find work."

And yes, we desperatly, desperately need to stop letting huge amounts of people into Canada with when there's no jobs for them to support there families, let alone ourselves.

[Hydraboss]

mikedavid, why don't you get on a bus and come to Alberta. I'll give you a job.

Bring your friends, too.

[mikedavid00]

mikedavid, why don't you get on a bus and come to Alberta. I'll give you a job.

Bring your friends, too.

Really? What type of full time, white collar jobs are you offering?

I'm waiting.

[Hydraboss]

Accounting (Lvl I, II, and III), HR positions (all levels), supervisory positions in the services division (not truly white collar, but not completely blue. Let's call them grey collar). The corp has positions available in the HSE (health, safety and environmental) at an entry level, and many, many more. If you don't like those, Tim Horton's in Leduc is looking for day or night staff (pick your own shifts) starting at $13.50 an hour plus benefits. Movie Gallery is looking for evening shifts. Only starts at $10.50/hour, but you get free movies. The local rag (small town paper) has seven pages of want ads this week (of course, it only comes out on Thursday's). Car dealerships are looking for sales people, truck driver's are in high demand. Name the type of labour position you want and it's yours.

178 full time positions posted on the Capital Health and Caritas Health websites for FULL TIME RN'S. www.capitalhealth.ca

So you want white collar? What are your qualifications? Are you willing to work? Let me know and I'll see what I can do.

[guyser]

You sir are one strange enigma. You constantly hype about no labour shortage , yet post in other threads that there is. Please make up your mind.

As for Stats Can and their massaging the numbers, you counter with the Canadian Labour Congress which is merely an umbrella group for most of canadas unions. Nice , I would imagine that any union organization would NEVER spin numbers to aid their targets.No No, never.

Everyone of your points in the above post are countered with your "truth" , yet you make no connections whatsoever.For instance, people feel satisfied with their jobs and you counter that they feel stress. Hey guess what, there is no connect there. I feel stress in my job too, AND I am happy with it. You counter blue pills with the price of bacon.

It continues with skilled labour shortage whereby you post that more skilled is needed , then counter with "jobs being increased yet mostly part time" . Yeah...whats your point. Perhaps the people not getting skilled labour jobs cannot do them , but do qualify for PT work. Wow what a concept!

It goes on and on with disconnects that boggle my mind considering just how smart you hold yourself, and only yourself agrees, to be. You make point after point and back them up with totally unrelated info and then stand on the roof tops and yell "see I proved to you guys" . Well, let me say this, you prove to us day in and day out , but what I will leave alone.

And then of course there is that idea of yours to eliminate businesses' from paying any tax. Cuckoo cuckoo goes the birdy. Even you should see the folly in that idea. What will we do to pay the bills, or replace the hundreds of billions that would not be collected.

And then there are the loans you want to make to business, but make sure you recall shagging Rod Briden and the Ottawa Senators for getting a loan.Talk out of your right side and something different from the left. Maybe we can call you Chretien now. I think I will .

And lastly, of course the old standy.....its the immigrants fault. Get back on the hookah.

[mikedavid00]

Accounting (Lvl I, II, and III), HR positions (all levels), supervisory positions in the services division (not truly white collar, but not completely blue. Let's call them grey collar). The corp has positions available in the HSE (health, safety and environmental) at an entry level, and many, many more. If you don't like those, Tim Horton's in Leduc is looking for day or night staff (pick your own shifts) starting at $13.50 an hour plus benefits. Movie Gallery is looking for evening shifts. Only starts at $10.50/hour, but you get free movies. The local rag (small town paper) has seven pages of want ads this week (of course, it only comes out on Thursday's). Car dealerships are looking for sales people, truck driver's are in high demand. Name the type of labour position you want and it's yours.

178 full time positions posted on the Capital Health and Caritas Health websites for FULL TIME RN'S. www.capitalhealth.ca

So you want white collar? What are your qualifications? Are you willing to work? Let me know and I'll see what I can do.

How about private sector IT jobs paying around $55,000.

Nurses are always in demand, HR is low paying for the most part.

If there is a great job shortage, the qualifications to get these jobs will be very low. It is rare to see Level 1 accouting though so that's positive.

To be honest, I'm looking at workopolis now and I just don't see where the jobs are. I only got 167 jobs listed for the whole province of Alberta. This is in Contrast to 41 jobs liked in Mississauga ON. A suberb of Toronto. It almost seems to be worse than Toronto to be completely honest. I mean, basic, easy entery level poitions are demaning post secondary education and experience that really isn't needed to for the job.

I'm sorry guys and even people here that I mostly agree with,

I just don't buy into the Alberata shortage.

yes, there are low paying jobs. yes, there are undesireable jobs that no body wants. But there just isn't a real demand for white collar, private sector jobs in AB.

You have to filter out the jobs that are always in demand from a real job boom. Time and time again I've been on the website through the last couple of years and I feel to see where these jobs are.

[guyser]

Hydraboss...you saw his reply? He only wants in excess of $52000+ and a white collar job. And he holds out is the immigrant that is causing this country grief. So tell me hydra , who would you hire , some guy who comes in off the street and asks for a job as he is new to the country, and says give me any job, OR some guy from Ontario who comes in and says "hey boss, got any $52,000+ jobs AND a desk where I can keep clean?

[August1991]

Execellent post with this kicker:

Get back on the hookah.

I hadn't thought of that possibility.

[Hydraboss]

IT jobs for $55k? Can't see why that would be a problem. My receptionist makes over $40k. I ask again; what qualifications do you have? If you are just a recent grad, no I'm not going to hire you for that kind of cash. Our company could (and has) run ads on the NAIT and SAIT websites, and we get a ton of guys who will be graduating and, like you, want the golden goose the minute they get out.

Newsflash! You haven't paid your dues yet. Hell, you haven't paid your first student loan installment. You have no real world experience, and yet you want me to pay you like you have 6-8 years in the business.

There are a multitude of jobs in Alberta of pretty much every description. What we are not looking for is "you owe me a job that comes with a company vehicle and a golf membership" types that seem to think that entry level is beneath them. Guess what? You're entry level.

Mikedavid, if you are not this person and you have some experience and proper credentials in the IT field, how is it possible that you can't operate the web well enough to find work out here that suits "your position"?

p.s. - Just so you know, HR is one of the best paying jobs in industry. You start around $40k, and after 10 years or so (or equivalent experience) most HR Managers - General are making over $100k. Check your facts.

www.salary.com

[mikedavid00]

IT jobs for $55k? Can't see why that would be a problem. My receptionist makes over $40k.

Well I don't see any realistic IT jobs in the province of Alberta actually. The whole province of Alberta listed 170 jobs from private companies and just in my Toronto suberb alone there was 40 job listings. If there was a mass shortage, there would be tons of listings.

So yes I do see a problem.

For instance. This is a simple job that basically anyone with computer knowledge can do. Especially a new grad. This is basically a phone support position. A very, very, basic position that many poeple here on the forum could probably do. This is listed as a 'Jr.' Level position. Let's look at the job tasks:

POSITION FUNCTIONS:

• Assist with moving computing hardware and associated reconfiguring

• Installation of new and used hardware units and components

• Troubleshooting problems, performing diagnostics

• Coordinate warranty/ post-warranty repair of hardware and accessories

• Updating, escalating and closing of Tickets in various systems

• Maintaining customer supplied “Hot spare” and parts inventory

• Track manufacturer defects, patches, revisions and notifications and inform customer when applicable

• Able to work some overtime hours completing office moves

Again, simple, simple work. Now lets look at the qualfiication you need to get this basic entry level job.

POSITION REQUIREMENTS:

• A Technical Diploma or University degree in Computer Science (A degree?? For this kids stuff?!)

• A+ Certification (so they must have a degree, and a certification! lol!)

• Warranty authorizations for HP, Dell, IBM, Toshiba (good luck)

• Minimum of 2 years working in a deskside capacity (2 years for an entry level position??LOL!!)

• Knowledge of an incident and problem management tool such as Remedy (This is one days training)

• Strong Windows XP OS knowledge (sounds like this is all that's needed to be honest)

• Strong troubleshooting skills (again this and the above are all that is required for the job)

<rest snipped>

Now lets look at a simlar role in Australia where there is a legitamit, healthy economy and job growth:

Help Desk Co-Ordinator

-strong problem solving and communication skills

-good knowledge of Microsoft operating systems and applications

-Competency with Microsoft office software – word/excel/email is required

Experience in a PC customer support role or similar environment is desirable.

If there was truly a job shortage and shortage of skills, this position wouldn't be so demanding. In 1998 the above was pretty much my first job. They didin't require anying but 'knowledge'. Yes there was a tech boom at the time, but do NOT try to say that there is some boom going on right now in Alberta. There simply is not. There might be a part time, low wage boom, but that's all.

I ask again; what qualifications do you have?

A degree, 5 years experience, and like 5 certifications. Last job I got offered was $50,000 but was too far to commute.

If you are just a recent grad, no I'm not going to hire you for that kind of cash.

Pay used to be based of experience. General experience in a field - not exact experience. A new grad should be making around $36,000, but a full time employee. And then get raises each 6 months. Someone with 3 years experience should be seing around $50,000 a year. There should be NO experience required for a new grad.

But why don't you just admit, there are no jobs for new grads trying to get experience. Why? Becuase

(drum roll)

THERE'S NO JOBS! There is a LOSS of jobs in Canada, and requirements are stiff because there are too many poeple looking for the same jobs!

Our company could (and has) run ads on the NAIT and SAIT websites, and we get a ton of guys who will be graduating and, like you, want the golden goose the minute they get out.

Yes, that's because they are lied to in school and everyone in U thinks that they are 'high cast' members of society. That USED to be the case 15 years back, but not anymore. I don't want the golden goose, I want reasonable pay for my experience as a Canadian. It's the reason I'm a Canadian and live here. This country is based off borders and jobs. It's really that simple. That's what values a country.

I encourage you to hire some new grads with no experience. Let them learn on the job, let them develop their skills and stay with your company. Invest in Canada and let some grads live their dreams and get experience.

Newsflash! You haven't paid your dues yet. Hell, you haven't paid your first student loan installment. You have no real world experience, and yet you want me to pay you like you have 6-8 years in the business.

I think your mistaking me for someone else. But you are proving my point which I like. 6-8 years experience are senior postiions which are always in demand in any city. I would put it to you that you could get good grads to easily handle these jobs. You just refuse to invest in Canadians and let someone learn on the job.

There are a multitude of jobs in Alberta of pretty much every description.

I completley disagree. I'm looking, and I can say for certain there are no shortages or white collar jobs at all. If there are, they want far too many specific qualifications that very few people have. If they DO find peopple with those skills, they are going to pay him below what he's worth when you are comparing the same to USA (which is who we should be comparing ourselves to).

What we are not looking for is "you owe me a job that comes with a company vehicle and a golf membership" types that seem to think that entry level is beneath them. Guess what? You're entry level.

I'm not entery level myself. Unless you think i'm someone else. Entry level grads should be getting a job in their field. Forget about nursing and gov't paid professions. We talking about white collar, private sector, entry level jobs. Not BLUE COLLAR, Not GREY COLLAR, but WHITE COLLAR.

Mikedavid, if you are not this person and you have some experience and proper credentials in the IT field, how is it possible that you can't operate the web well enough to find work out here that suits "your position"?

I gave you the reasons above. There are no jobs. It's the same old senior level stuff. It's not a pay issue, it's the issue of wanting more than the job really requires or employers refusing to let employees learn on the job.

p.s. - Just so you know, HR is one of the best paying jobs in industry

.

For the most part, I completely disagree.

You start around $40k,

You do not start around $40k. You start as a head hunter making peanuts. $10 with bonuses.

I openly challenge anyone reading this to look at this Australian job posting:

http://it.seek.com.au/users/apply/index.as...1&JobID=8335510

And then gotoo:

www.workopolis.com

And find ANY job in Canada that even remotely has a listing like the above. You wont find one. We have too many poeple in Canada, too much education in Canada, and too many people in Canada looking for the same job.

We saturated our own population and have devlaued our own jobs and education.

[guyser]

So Chretien ...er ....mikedavid, here you go again. So now you dont think there is a job shortage , but yesterday there was a shortage, and the day before that there wasn't.

Of course living in Ont allows you free reign to tell someone , obviously in some position to report on the need for jobs, that he is wrong.

My guess is you take that track as you cannot see fit to admit you are wrong. And of course once again you compare blue pills to the price of bacon.If nothing else you are consistent, consistently wrong mind you but your record is stellar. Again, get back on the hookah

[margrace]

mikedavid, why don't you get on a bus and come to Alberta. I'll give you a job.

Bring your friends, too.

Really? What type of full time, white collar jobs are you offering?

I'm waiting.

And how much would a bed to sleep in cost if I could find one?

[guyser]

And how much would a bed to sleep in cost if I could find one?

www.sleepcountrycanada.ca The roof over it is a little more expensive though.

[jdobbin]

Zamboni drivers anyone? Shortage in Manitoba.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/20...ni-drivers.html

"In Manitoba, arena attendants make $15 to $21 an hour.

But not necessarily easy. Arena attendants must have a power engineering refrigeration certificate, which requires 80 hours of classroom training as well as 900 hours of on-the-job training"

[jdobbin]

Australian job growth to stall.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23...272-462,00.html

I don't what the full discussion on the subject was as I block a few of the posters. They've had a good year but now comes the threat of sending IT and engineering jobs to India.

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/care/8...C25724500076F8F

[mikedavid00]

But not necessarily easy. Arena attendants must have a power engineering refrigeration certificate, which requires 80 hours of classroom training as well as 900 hours of on-the-job training"

"The Dakota Community Centre has come up with a solution: it will cover trainees' costs of taking the power engineering refrigeration training, as well as pay trainees' wages, as long as they promise to work at the Dakota rink for a year afterwards."

And this is what happens when there is a LEGITIMATE shortage.

People will bend over backwards to take anyone off the street. They won't be picky and choosey.

Keep in mind, this is just one single position.

[mikedavid00]

Australian job growth to stall.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23...272-462,00.html

"We had 1000 jobs a day. That is the kind of job creation that we have never seen in our country before.

"We are just coming off an extraordinary base."

Of course I have to look futher into those job numbners to see if they are fulltime jobs. Found them. Wow simply amazing:

"Full-time jobs grew by 43,400 in April, and part-time jobs by 12,800, while in March full-time jobs increased by 39,200 and part-time by 27,800."

Yes. They seem to be having legitimate job shortages. I can tell just from the job postings but these numbers for full time employment are simply amazing.

See guys, I base my stuff of facts. Real numbers. Not emotion.

[Slavik44]

1. Underemployment

First, stress is not an indicator of Underemployment. And Then, so people feel stressed, maybe they should be looking at learning new ways to deal with stress. Wether it is going 30 Km/h over the speed limit to get to work a minute early, or circling a parking lot fliping everyone the finger trying to find a spot close to the door, when there is an empty lot only a minute walk away. People just feel stress, often needlessly. I don't think stress is a relavent indicator, People will feel work related stress if they have a job, and if they don't have a job they will still feel work related stress, or lack of work stress. If you find stress is a problem in the Canadian work force...then please do me a favour and buy all of these, red light running, speed limit breaking, horn honking, caffiene Junkies a Bob Marley CD, cause ultimately Every little thing is going to be alright. Peoples lack of ability to deal with stress is not a problem with the availability of Good Jobs in Canada.

2. Skilled Shortages

Again this is irrelavent to wether a job is part time or full time. If I owned a company and needed a Nuclear Physicist but couldn't find someone...that would be slowing my growth. Wether or not I hired three part time Janitors during that time is absolutely irrelavent.

3. Overall employment

Goes up and down on a seasonal basis...I work as a shipper reciever for a roofing supply company. I work full Time during the summers and part time While I go to School. Recently they Laid off an individual because...its winter....its a down time for roofing and construction in general. I live in British Columbia, I can't imagine how much more prounounced this down time is in places where tempatures regularly dip down past -20 degreese. People don't build houses in the winter. What about resource extraction? Alot of people tend to work only 6 months out of a year or so and then waste tax payer money going on EI Holidays. Same thing with a number of Jobs in the forest industry...such as tree planters its a seasonal job, then we have things like Orchards, apparently apples don't need to be harvested in December. Alot of the Canadian workforce have good jobs, that pay well, but also have seasonal ups and downs. I have a friend who goes works in Alberta as a labourer for an oil company during the summers and then works part time as a waiter at a resturant, he makes plenty of money and doesn't even need to work as a waiter but he enjoys it. Pointing out that there are seasonal changes in employment does not negate the value of certain Jobs, and it doesn't reflect poorly on the status of the Canadian workforce.

[geoffrey]

EI Holidays must be eliminated from the system. Ski bums don't get EI in the summer... otherwise that's what I'd do.

[blueblood]

EI Holidays must be eliminated from the system. Ski bums don't get EI in the summer... otherwise that's what I'd do.

Neither do land owners, if you own land and decide you want to make some money doing something in the winter, you can kiss that part of your cheque that goes to EI good bye, that is commie BS!!