Thoughts on Dions win.

[Canuck E Stan]

The fearmongering is going to come from every single Liberal around him when they wake up today and go "oh my god, what have I done" in electing the least electable of even the eight candidates that appeared in Montreal this weekend.

When Belinda put forth her proposal for one person-one vote, the Liberals at the convention rejected this most democratic of processes in favour of the same old-same old.

One person-one vote

"You know what, we're missing 98 per cent of the family here today,'' Stronach implored delegates, speaking from one of the floor microphones at the Palais des congres.

"Don't be afraid. Be open. Let's modernize this party. Let's leapfrog ahead of the Conservative party so we can engage, we can earn the trust and respect of Canadians, we can become the most open and democratic party in the world.''

The Liberals still do not want to accept change to a party that remains in denial that it will not be governing Canada for a few more years to come.

As one columnist called him Stephane "Di-yawn", a failed environment minister, will do nothing to bring the Liberals back into power.

If anything, it will alienate most of the 98% of Liberals who not only didn't get the opportunity to select him, they will definately question this choice for a so called "renewed" party.

Stephane Dion along with his dog Kyoto,are still be same old-same old.

[watching&waiting]

When the Liberals finally get home and take time to think, they will have to realize that they just voted Chretien Regular into power. They did not have a Chretien lite to choose from. The news are all going to take great time and pleasure in drawing Dion into every part of the Chretien camp, and it will be shown that while at the convention Chretien hide in the back rooms and with the analysis you will see the ties that will prove that Chretien and his team are who really crowned Dion the leader. The deals will come to light and we will again see the Liberals in the same way as you did during the Sponsor ship Scandel. Dion will try with all his might to sweep that under the rug, in the same way Chretien used to do, and he will go over the top with his claims about CPC destroying the land etc. Any Liberal who thought that this leadership convention was going to be about change, will have to admit that there is nothing new but rather the same old, same old. Thatis going to be much harder to run on.

Dion as Environment Minister was a joke and his spending billions never produced results but again rather made things worse. I am trying to figure out just what he can lay claim to? He did write the Clarity Act, but that will hurt him more in Quebec then help him, and he is not well liked in Quebec to begin with. It is true that when it comes to Quebec they would mostly go with their own before going with others, but since the bloq will get more votes and the CPC will probably only pick up a few more seats in Quebec, I will have to say that Dion will be a scorched earth type candidate for them in that province.

I could go on and on province by province and to tell you the truth, I would not see anywhere that Dion will be a psoitive infuence. Maybe others can find something, but I can not. The only positive infuence I can see from Dion is that they will be handing the next election to Harper.

[jdobbin]

Social development and housing, human resources/skills, or intergovernmental affairs is more likely.

He has no economic experience.

Though maybe that's the idea, give the boy a shot in an financial critic position to get some experience?

Could you live what that?

I think Dion needs to have some people with new ideas on finance. Sure, Goodale will be there some place but who is going to push the bank policy, etc. Kennedy. I don't even think the Tories are talking about that yet. What better way to distinguish new Liberal policy from old?

[jdobbin]

When Belinda put forth her proposal for one person-one vote, the Liberals at the convention rejected this most democratic of processes in favour of the same old-same old.

One person-one vote

I've heard some Tories on the radio today saying that the one person, one vote system is responsible for Stelmach and that some people in Alberta are not happy.

[geoffrey]

Social development and housing, human resources/skills, or intergovernmental affairs is more likely.

He has no economic experience.

Though maybe that's the idea, give the boy a shot in an financial critic position to get some experience?

Could you live what that?

I think Dion needs to have some people with new ideas on finance. Sure, Goodale will be there some place but who is going to push the bank policy, etc. Kennedy. I don't even think the Tories are talking about that yet. What better way to distinguish new Liberal policy from old?

True. I think he needs to hire me as an advisor then.

I don't think he's in a spot to be Finance minister, and I think critics should be picked on reasonable replacement grounds. The other portfolios in economic areas are all pretty minor, I guess Treasury Board is ok...

Why not the Industry spot, but instead of softwood and cars, have him focus on the finance sector, rebuilding our banks, ect. ect.? That'd be a refreshing change.

[Canuck E Stan]

I've heard some Tories on the radio today saying that the one person, one vote system is responsible for Stelmach and that some people in Alberta are not happy.

144,289 people voted for a PC of Alberta leader,would you expect everyone to be happy?

Less than 5,000 Liberals voted for their leader, I would think that some of the other 195,00 Liberal members who didn't have the opportunity to vote would also have some that weren't happy.

[gerryhatrick]

Well now that some Liberals have realised they have picked an absolutely incompetent unelectable leader, they are back at fearmongering to try to prevent that evil Harper majority.

There's no need to fearmonger over Harper anymore, he's made the fears a realization.

Now his record can be pointed at.

You think Dion is incompetant! You're a partisan, through and through. That's fine, I'm partisan also. The difference between us is one of honesty. You claimed you would vote Liberal if the leader wasn't "anti-Alberta", as you say Dion is. The fact is you would never vote anything other than CPC. Your pretense is by design to make other posters think you're actually fair-minded towards Liberals.

Lessee. You call Dion "incompetent" and "anti-Alberta". Sure, you're not partisan.

[jdobbin]

144,289 people voted for a PC of Alberta leader,would you expect everyone to be happy?

Less than 5,000 Liberals voted for their leader, I would think that some of the other 195,00 Liberal members who didn't have the opportunity to vote would also have some that weren't happy.

The 195,000 Liberals had a chance to vote for a delegate.

I think they could be reasonably confident that the 5000 delegates were actual Liberals. I don't know that this was the case for everyone who voted in the Conservative election.

[geoffrey]

Lessee. You call Dion "incompetent" and "anti-Alberta". Sure, you're not partisan.

I've said worse things about Harper too.

[normanchateau]

I said over and over that Dion should be the true winner becuase he has the old Liberal establishment behind him.

Apparently the "Liberal establishment" does not include Liberal MPs. Ignatieff, Rae and Kennedy each had more Liberal MPs backing them prior to the first ballot than Dion. Ignatieff was backed by 39 MPs, Rae by 14 MPs, Kennedy by 13 MPs and Dion by only 11 MPs. Dion wasn't the first choice of Liberal Senators either. Prior to the first ballot, Ignatieff was backed by 10 Liberal Senators, Rae by 12 Liberal Senators, Kennedy by 6 Liberal Senators and Dion by 7 Liberal Senators.

Actually Dion received surprisingly little "establishment" support. His supporters included a lot of outsiders who only recently joined the Liberals. For example, one of his supporters is Marc-Boris Saint-Maurice, former leader of the Marijuana Party of Canada. Another supporter is David Orchard. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of prominent Liberals who supported Dion prior to the first ballot.

Senior Chretien aide Eddie Goldenberg, who backed Rae for the leadership, had some interesting observations to make about Dion:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061202/..._dion_newsmaker

Yet it was Goldenberg who recruited Dion into the Liberal Party when Dion was still an academic. It's a fluke that Dion is now leader, largely a function of the anyone-but-Iggy movement coupled with Kennedy delivering his delegates to Dion. Large numbers of Liberals left the convention after the final ballot results were announced and did not remain to hear Dion's speech.

Despite the lack of enthusiasm of many Liberal supporters for Dion, I think he'll do well once Canadians get to know him. It's in Harper's best interests to call an election sooner rather than later. The less people learn about Dion, the better Harper's chances.

[geoffrey]

You think Dion is incompetant! You're a partisan, through and through. That's fine, I'm partisan also. The difference between us is one of honesty. You claimed you would vote Liberal if the leader wasn't "anti-Alberta", as you say Dion is. The fact is you would never vote anything other than CPC. Your pretense is by design to make other posters think you're actually fair-minded towards Liberals.

I'm not voting CPC next election, I've made that clear. I don't support that party and it's current hypocracy and ideological shift.

I would have gladly voted Liberal if Kennedy were the leader, but I'm not voting for Chretien II.

[normanchateau]

I would have gladly voted Liberal if Kennedy were the leader, but I'm not voting for Chretien II.

I thought Chretien supported Bob Rae.

[geoffrey]

I would have gladly voted Liberal if Kennedy were the leader, but I'm not voting for Chretien II.

I thought Chretien supported Bob Rae.

It doesn't matter who Chretien supports, it matters who Dion is.

[normanchateau]

I would have gladly voted Liberal if Kennedy were the leader, but I'm not voting for Chretien II.

I thought Chretien supported Bob Rae.

It doesn't matter who Chretien supports, it matters who Dion is.

Dion is the man who will get us out of Afghanistan. Chretien is the man who got us in.

And I gather Kennedy supported Dion because he couldn't distinguish him from Chretien.

I had wondered how long it would take before the new Liberal leader would be called names. Not very long apparently. Even Paul Martin had a few months before the name-calling began. In any event, calling Dion Chretien II is about as helpful and informative to this discussion board as me calling the PM Herr Harper.

[cybercoma]

There's no need to fearmonger over Harper anymore, he's made the fears a realization.

Now his record can be pointed at.

You think Dion is incompetant! You're a partisan, through and through. That's fine, I'm partisan also. The difference between us is one of honesty. You claimed you would vote Liberal if the leader wasn't "anti-Alberta", as you say Dion is. The fact is you would never vote anything other than CPC. Your pretense is by design to make other posters think you're actually fair-minded towards Liberals.

Lessee. You call Dion "incompetent" and "anti-Alberta". Sure, you're not partisan.

There have been times when geoffrey has shown Liberal opinions, so it's fairly safe to say that under the right circumstances he would vote for the Liberals.

[stignasty]

I'm not voting CPC next election, I've made that clear. I don't support that party and it's current hypocracy and ideological shift.

I would have gladly voted Liberal if Kennedy were the leader, but I'm not voting for Chretien II.

I think Mr. Dion deserves a chance to differentiate himself from his former boss.

If you're not voting CPC or Liberal, which way are you leaning? (I'm planning on voting for the candidate most in jeopardy of losing his/her deposit )

[Argus]

Well now that some Liberals have realised they have picked an absolutely incompetent unelectable leader, they are back at fearmongering to try to prevent that evil Harper majority.

There's no need to fearmonger over Harper anymore, he's made the fears a realization.

Now his record can be pointed at.

Like..... ?

[leonardcohen]

If Harper wins a majority in the next election, it will destroy Canada. The US is just waiting to pick up the pieces of a country with a lot of resources.

Hyperbole-much?

[watching&waiting]

I would have gladly voted Liberal if Kennedy were the leader, but I'm not voting for Chretien II.

I thought Chretien supported Bob Rae.

It doesn't matter who Chretien supports, it matters who Dion is.

Dion is the man who will get us out of Afghanistan. Chretien is the man who got us in.

And I gather Kennedy supported Dion because he couldn't distinguish him from Chretien.

I had wondered how long it would take before the new Liberal leader would be called names. Not very long apparently. Even Paul Martin had a few months before the name-calling began. In any event, calling Dion Chretien II is about as helpful and informative to this discussion board as me calling the PM Herr Harper.

Norman

I have read just about all your bellyaching posts about us being in Afghanistan, and you are always even when proven wrong, so hard headed that you just always just keep spewing the same old thing. So let me point out that id Canada annouced tomorrow that we are pulling out of Afghan in say 6 months, we would first be taken to task by NATO and probably be the ignition of the fire to end the NATO completely. That would also mean that Europw will not be a welcoming place for us to do business. The USA would also be wanting to take us to task on that and the isolationists would be screaming for trade barriers etc. The fact that there are a majority of Canadians that support the Afghan mission would also tear the country apart, because to reneg on it would be to ruin Canada's reputation. So you see what could happen if you got your way. That is why you do not get any support for your misguided views.

As for Dion getting anything done, that will be a laugh. He will never win an election and so he will never do anything but bellyache about things. He is just a stop gap so the Liberals will have more time to groom some other puppet for the back room boys to run.

[Canadian Blue]

If we left Afghanistan, then we have basically done the same thing the Belgian's did in Rwanda. We are no better, and would not be able to ever be taken seriously by NATO.

[mikedavid00]

Actually Dion received surprisingly little "establishment" support.

lol... that's what they want you to believe. The involved knew the fix was in.

You really need to get a grasp further into Canadian politics to know what really happened.

1. Dion came in at 3rd/4th place entering this (depending on the poll you listened to) and was never expected to win.

2. Dion made previous agreements with Kennedy that they would back each other.

3. 6 of 8 candidates backed Rae - NOT Dion (because they knew #2).

4. Chretien/young Trudeau backed Dion/Kennedy

5. Only 4,600 people voted.

6. Rae spent over 2 million dollars on his campaign, Dion less than 'six figures' (or 'seven'.. can't remember.. wasn't paying attention during that moment.. someone clarify).

7. People on this very forum and everywhere you went were backing Iggy.

You'll see that the cards were never supporting Dion or Kennedy. It was a 'pro-establishment' vs. 'anti-establishment' and the establishment won.. of course.

Ignatieff loves the texbooks and schools. Maybe some of his followers can study the below definition to see what is going to happen to the Liberal Party next:

Coup d'état

The sudden overthrow of a government through unconstitutional means by a part of the state establishment — mostly replacing just the high-level figures. It is also an example of political engineering. It may or may not be violent in nature.

[Canuck E Stan]

As for Dion getting anything done, that will be a laugh. He will never win an election and so he will never do anything but bellyache about things. He is just a stop gap so the Liberals will have more time to groom some other puppet for the back room boys to run.

Within government Dion was a lousy environment minister, he had the chance to do something about Kyoto other than naming his dog Kyoto.

On another note, Kennedy sent 900 delegates his way, analysts say had it been the other way around Dion's delegates would have renaged and not gone to Kennedy because of his Quebec stand. That would not have been surprising.

[jdobbin]

If we left Afghanistan, then we have basically done the same thing the Belgian's did in Rwanda. We are no better, and would not be able to ever be taken seriously by NATO.

NATO is not to be taken seriously. Canada got next to nothing at the last meeting. That will become all too clear in the next months when we watch the rest of Europe run from its commitments.

[geoffrey]

4. Chretien/young Trudeau backed Dion/Kennedy

Chretien backed Rae.

7. People on this very forum and everywhere you went were backing Iggy.

Actually, I discussed this in another thread. The majority of support on this forum was for Kennedy. I only know of one Iggy supporter here.

[punked]

I was hoping Rae could pull it out.